Leema Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Temperament testing does not have to be 'bad', but the term has certainly been tainted by shelters, pounds and groups that use them as an excuse to kill pets. I worked in one of these facilities and though of course it's not representative of all facilities, it does prove that temperament testing can be geared to killing dogs instead of ensuring community safety. Cosmolo and others (like the ACT RSPCA) use temperament testing in the right way - using it as a platform to start working with the dog and determining the best course of action for any behaviour issues. This is clear in their statistics - with about 7% of RSPCA ACT's dogs not going through for adoption (for health as well as temperament), and, if Cosmolo is correct, about 5% of their dogs not 'passing'. These are good stats and indicates a temperament assessment that is viable in the right shelter environment. I am supportive of temperament testing that is used to help dogs, not kill them. It goes along with a multifaceted approach that shelters should be taking. For example: Shelters should work with and place dogs in private rescues - for rehabilitation and also as a 'space saving' option. Shelters need to train volunteers and foster carers to manage and improve dog behaviour in pound and home environments, to make dogs more adoptable. Shelters need to have comprehensive adoption programs that match the right dog to the right household. Shelters need to use public relations and the community to achieve all these things. On a similar but different notes, shelters need to get dogs HOME instead of REHOMED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Shelters (aka pounds in NSW) are managed and run by local government. This usually means that there is limited funding. Limited funding stands between the ideal world and the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) 'Termperament' is used wrongly in the dog world. 'Temperament', in relation of humans, refers to a constitutional pattern in behaviour that tends to remain constant throughout life. So with humans ... no tester would ever front up to a person about whom they have no history, ignore the fact the person is in a situation of high stress, then apply a single test of how the person behaves during that test ... and call the results 'temperament'. (But this is done with dogs.) Those results would only reflect behaviour during that testing time, in that testing environment and with that tester. There has been no observation of patterns in the person's behaviour, over time and in a variety of natural situations. Which is, of course, temperament. Cosmolo is one of the people, associated with the testing of dogs whom I've heard grasp the difference between temperament and single event behaviour. From what Leema's written, so has RSCPA ACT. Seems they recognize that the 'temperament' test is of single event behaviour ... & so use the results to explore further how characteristic or malleable some of that behaviour is. If so, thumbs up to them.... and the assessment resources they've set up. Resources are related to funding. Getting such approaches into Council pounds would require funding they don't presently have. And would local government have the will to provide those funds? I wouldn't count on it. Edited March 19, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Tdierikx- the testing done by the volunteers at DAS is our assessment. A number of ACT rescue groups have attended multiple training sessions regarding how to conduct the tests and it is not available online or without workshop attendance because of some of the reasons mentioned here. I don't ever want this test to be used as an excuse for killing dogs so it's unavailable without accompanying training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I don't agree with temp tests being an excuse to kill dogs, but how do you test whether a dog is HA or extremely DA? For me, these would be valid reasons not to rehome a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Tdierikx- the testing done by the volunteers at DAS is our assessment. A number of ACT rescue groups have attended multiple training sessions regarding how to conduct the tests and it is not available online or without workshop attendance because of some of the reasons mentioned here. I don't ever want this test to be used as an excuse for killing dogs so it's unavailable without accompanying training. So - if PR were interested in attending your training courses, would you be amenable to maybe organising something here in Sydney sometime soonish? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Do you really think PR would ever fail a dog? I don't think that would ever happen based on their must save all the babies posts on FB. It is totally against the grain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Tdierikx- the testing done by the volunteers at DAS is our assessment. A number of ACT rescue groups have attended multiple training sessions regarding how to conduct the tests and it is not available online or without workshop attendance because of some of the reasons mentioned here. I don't ever want this test to be used as an excuse for killing dogs so it's unavailable without accompanying training. OT sorry but . . . Cosmolo, Do you have a section or workshop on assessing dogs for suitability for dogsports? That would be very interesting :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Do you really think PR would ever fail a dog? I don't think that would ever happen based on their must save all the babies posts on FB. It is totally against the grain. I agree 100%. When you temp test you not only need to know what you are doing, you also need to be HONEST about the test!not to mention the fact most pr dogs go straight from pounds into adoptive homes or FC. I temp tested at HP for years. Fact is is you give rescue a bum steer re a dog (just because you want to get them out of the pound) they will NEVER trust you again. Temp testing is a HUGE responsibility. Temp testing needs to be independant IMO T. If pr's temp test IME they will simply work the system and any loophole they can use, as they already have with councils. I keep saying, it all comes down to the groups poor and unreputable practices (which are PROFF and FACT) No way in hell I would put my name to pr's in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeybun Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Apparently PR phoned 2GB radio station [sydney] Ben Fordham's show,yesterday afternoon to complain that a large number of dogs at Blacktown Pound were going to be rehomed and homes found for them when they were put down without warning.Supposedly another caller phoned to say she was on her way to the Pound to actually collect the dog she was taking when she was contacted to be told the dog had been put down. I didnt hear either of those 2 calls but this afternoon Ben Fordham referred to the story again, repeated the info above, and to add that AWL members at the Pound when this occurred and he hadnt been able to get a straight answer from BP, only that the dogs had been temperament tested and found unsuitable for rehoming..or words to that effect.Ben Fordham said he wanted to take this matter further as so had Tim V CEO of AWL on to try and get to the bottom of the incident. Tim interviewed very well, and he explained that AWL staff were not doing the temperament testing on the dogs just giving staff explanations and suggestions etc of procedures and had been to BP a couple of times . It was not the intention of AWL to do temperament testing for BP, as he said that should be done by Pounds own trained staff and not to ever farm out the work. It was never the intention of AWL to have any of their comments used as reason to put a dog down and that if they had been asked about any particular dog they may have made some comments but would not have given a thorough test of any dog.He went on to say that temp testing when done properly is not just a matter of one test and never just in the pound environment, as allowances have to be made for the stress of that environment and tests should also be conducted out of that environment, etc etc Sadly Tim was cut short because of a breaking news story so did not get an opportunity to fully explain the situation from AWL's ppoint of view but in what he did say indicated AWL were not to blame for any dogs being put down. Ben Fordham stated he was going to investigate further. Edited March 20, 2013 by honeybun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 OK then - what if PR fronted the fee for Cosmolo to come up to Sydney and train some of the BP staff and/or regular volunteers in the Underdog assessment methods? They would be able to front the money with a few small pleas for it - AND could get much better testing available to BP to boot... That way I reckon everyone would get the benefit from some decent assessment of the dogs at BP... AND PR would be happier about it all too. Win-win, yes? Let's face it, PR aren't going away - so anything that they could do that will benefit all would be appreciated, no? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malti Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 OK then - what if PR fronted the fee for Cosmolo to come up to Sydney and train some of the BP staff and/or regular volunteers in the Underdog assessment methods? They would be able to front the money with a few small pleas for it - AND could get much better testing available to BP to boot... That way I reckon everyone would get the benefit from some decent assessment of the dogs at BP... AND PR would be happier about it all too. Win-win, yes? Let's face it, PR aren't going away - so anything that they could do that will benefit all would be appreciated, no? T. In theory that sounds good, I worry about the face of pound rounds who continually deny dogs being too dangerous to be released. It is all about rehabilitation (which in a perfect world would be great, but as it is, resources are simply not available to rehab all dogs) and they way they have taken dogs out and sent them off to homes where little to no checks are done. pound rounds all over attitude to 'rescuing' is worrying and it starts from their clarity of dogs in pounds and their behaviours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Don't worry, PR are going away, she just keeps on digging her own hole. There is no way on Earth I'd ever trust PR to be involved in temp testing. PR will never be happy till they have total control but that is all slipping away. They need to be kept well away from anything official as they cannot be allowed to co-opt anything official to give them the illusion of legitimacy. It might sound harsh but this is just one consequence of PR tactics, it could have been much worse and it still might get worse. Though I do agree that the more help Blacktown get the better, just nothing to do with PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Don't worry, PR are going away, she just keeps on digging her own hole. There is no way on Earth I'd ever trust PR to be involved in temp testing. PR will never be happy till they have total control but that is all slipping away. They need to be kept well away from anything official as they cannot be allowed to co-opt anything official to give them the illusion of legitimacy. It might sound harsh but this is just one consequence of PR tactics, it could have been much worse and it still might get worse. Though I do agree that the more help Blacktown get the better, just nothing to do with PR. I await the day with baited breath .... PR learning how to do temp tests will mean nothing. They don't learn their lessons. If you had been responsible for a dog biting a child or savaging/killing another dog, what would you do as a sensible and ethical rescuer? You'd be mortified. You'd make some changes to ensure that it NEVER happened again or was extremely unlikely to. You'd carefully risk assess every dog, every potential home and so on. What have PR done in response to taking a bad dog on? They've continued taking more on and operating in exactly the same way. For them if it breathes it deserves to be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Anyone can organise a behavioural assessment workshop and anyone can attend. I do intend to make a date to come to Sydney probably early June- will decide this sometime next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Kavik- i don't have such a workshop, much as i have recommended many dogs successfully for sport or work and we do touch on it in the behavioural assessment workshop, it's not really enough my area of expertise to run a workshop solely on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkes Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 By the looks of things another rescue group has stepped in to do dog brokering at BP where PR has stepped down. Saw a post on their facebook page tonight looking for help to send the dog from BP to their new owners in Perth. So wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 It would be fantastic for staff at BCC to do Underdogs temp tesing workshop. You only need to look at the inspiration DAS team to see how well it works. The problem is and always has been this particular group. PR deleted the temp notes from dogs who were temp tested at HP, added their own pathetic "story" without even meeting the dogs and them pinched the photos that went with the temp notes. When MN was asked not to do that, she stated it was council property and that council owned the photos :laugh: She then went on to steal (register) the name pound list so that she could use the pics (and also p.off temp testers and volunteers) And she wonders why people are appauled by her. Honestly she has burnt so many people it is scary, now BCC are on her list. I would say she has met her match though, no wonder she is throwing a huge tanty :laugh: How on earth is she going to collect so many donations without the BCC dogs? Bloody terrible I have not checked yet, though there was only one HP dog left in need. Whats the bet MN kept them all up! the HP dog most certainly does not need pr's. MN needs that dog to create drama and pull in donations. I have said it before and I will say it again. MN will go down as the worst thing to ever happen in animal welfare we have ever seen. Sad thing is she will just disapear, while everyone else deals with the fallout and destruction she has left in her path. I feel so deeply for the dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 By the looks of things another rescue group has stepped in to do dog brokering at BP where PR has stepped down. Saw a post on their facebook page tonight looking for help to send the dog from BP to their new owners in Perth. So wrong! I had a feeling that would happen and would not at all be suprised if MN is behind it in some way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huck house Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/245742-call-for-participants-canine-temperament-testing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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