Horses For Courses: Is $400 Phar Lap In The Pal?

[BlackJaq]

Horses hurting themselves on transport has nothing to do with the thickness of their skin. They are prone to getting a scare at noises or sights and thrashing around thoughtlessly in an attempt to escape.

[inez]

We are not talking about pigs we are talking about horses, and there are physiological differences as well as psychological differences across the range of breeds that impact on their welfare when applied in a generic meat processing scenario. Is there some reason you cannot acknowledge that breeds which have been selected for generations for a certain purpose may not be ideally suited for a different purpose as a result? I own a husky, if you want a dog that comes when called most people will advise not to get this breed, recall is not something that has been considered important to husky breeders and therefore it is not something that they are geared towards or comes easily to them.

It's very simple, if people want to use horses for meat then breed towards ones that are suitable for purpose, there are some draft breeds that are purpose bred for meat overseas for example. But don't pretend that sending TBs or kids ponies for meat is okay just because it is inconvenient to consider otherwise.

What is even simpler, if someone wants a good riding horse or a kids pony and its at a auction guess what?

You do not need to ban auction's you do not need to shut down doggers. All they need to do is outbid the doggers. It is rather common knowledge they have a very set limit and are easily outbid.

What makes it a right to demand doggers be put out of business so cheap ponies are available?

I fail to understand why anyone is prepared to pay more for a dog than the majority would ever be prepared pay out for a horse or pony with three and more times the lifespan of a dog?

Edited March 17, 2013 by inez

[inez]

Horses hurting themselves on transport has nothing to do with the thickness of their skin. They are prone to getting a scare at noises or sights and thrashing around thoughtlessly in an attempt to escape.

Have you viewed the videos of the

"frantic and scared" and/or " fearfully rushed into the ‘killing box’"horses in this clip? http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/stop-knackery-abuse

Disgusting as these callus men treated these horses, Natures Child's body language was neither, "frantic, scared or fearful", nor was the other horse it didnt have a clue what the idiot weilding the pipe wanted of it. she was a old girl who wondered what this pair of idiots were doing. Their ability to communicate without that bloody plastic pipe should have had them charged as much for their cruelty in how they dispatched the horses in their charge.

then the 'calm' cattle in the kill pen? They work hard to keep them calm 500 to 1000 kg of fearful bovine can not only snap fences like twigs, they also send their meat purple and unsaleable when stressed, same applies to horses, chooks.

These men obviously do know their job,doesnt make it any less awful to watch, the chap above the killing box has the stun gun and uses it at 1.27 into the clip, the first one doesnt look like it even saw it comming the second at 2.24, IS TERRIFIED.

Just because you do not have the same affection for cattle does not make them any less capable of terror and they get VERY scared of strange noises and sights. just watch a load in a semi at the lights staring in fear at the weird cars they have never seen before.

ALL slaughter is confronting regardless

I know how sick watching either video made me feel

Edited March 17, 2013 by inez

[Sheridan]

I have asked for this thread to be moved into the animal abuse forum. That video should not be on general view no matter how much you want to shock people, inez.

[BlackJaq]

I don't find slaughter confronting, we kill our own livestock for meat and will be running cattle and pigs in the future. I also had to put down a horse at our property before (via bullet) and if her meat had not been tainted by a buttload of medication we would have used her for dog meat. As it was, due to the injury that required her to be put to sleep, she had received medication that made her meat unsafe for my dogs to eat and we buried her instead.

I am just trying to explain to those people who seem to know nothing about horses, why some people find their slaughter inhumane.

ETA: I bet opinions on the humane slaughter of dogs after their "useful" lives are up might be a little different on this forum. Would you send your own animals off to be slaughtered to get a few lousy bucks out of them after they are no longer of use to you? Dogs as well as horses?

Edited March 17, 2013 by BlackJaq

[raz]

Horses hurting themselves on transport has nothing to do with the thickness of their skin. They are prone to getting a scare at noises or sights and thrashing around thoughtlessly in an attempt to escape.

Have you viewed the videos of the

"frantic and scared" and/or " fearfully rushed into the ‘killing box’"horses in this clip? http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/stop-knackery-abuse

Disgusting as these callus men treated these horses, Natures Child's body language was neither, "frantic, scared or fearful", nor was the other horse it didnt have a clue what the idiot weilding the pipe wanted of it. she was a old girl who wondered what this pair of idiots were doing. Their ability to communicate without that bloody plastic pipe should have had them charged as much for their cruelty in how they dispatched the horses in their charge.

then the 'calm' cattle in the kill pen? They work hard to keep them calm 500 to 1000 kg of fearful bovine can not only snap fences like twigs, they also send their meat purple and unsaleable when stressed, same applies to horses, chooks.

These men obviously do know their job,doesnt make it any less awful to watch, the chap above the killing box has the stun gun and uses it at 1.27 into the clip, the first one doesnt look like it even saw it comming the second at 2.24, IS TERRIFIED.

Just because you do not have the same affection for cattle does not make them any less capable of terror and they get VERY scared of strange noises and sights. just watch a load in a semi at the lights staring in fear at the weird cars they have never seen before.

ALL slaughter is confronting regardless

I know how sick watching either video made me feel

Oh rightyo. So watching a video you went out for way to watch made you feel sick so you posted it to make everyone else feel sick. Makes a lot of sense!

thanks for having it moved, sheridan.

[inez]

I have asked for this thread to be moved into the animal abuse forum. That video should not be on general view no matter how much you want to shock people, inez.

What a peculiar thing to say?

Is there anyone who does not find such sight confronting?

No one is criticizing the poster of the Video of Natures Child?

Where is the difference, except in the video I posted it is of humane slaughter ticking every box?

The truth is not acceptable?

I did not post it to ‘shock’. To admit I am upset by both is a cause for you to criticize me? Was the poster of the first acceptable because they did not say how they felt?

The poster of the first video is not panned for doing so, the creators of it describe the animals videoed as being frantic and in fear which is blindly obvious they are neither. They say the movement after death is indicative of them still being conscious. Which again the second video proves is in fact normal.

I did post it to show cattle can be far more upset in a box than either Natures Child or her companion was. Also that is equally noticeable these cattle although completely unconscious still have reflex movement, which can only be prevented by injection to induce complete paralysis which cannot be done in either instance at these places or the meat cannot be used.

Edited March 20, 2013 by inez

[inez]

Horses hurting themselves on transport has nothing to do with the thickness of their skin. They are prone to getting a scare at noises or sights and thrashing around thoughtlessly in an attempt to escape.

Have you viewed the videos of the

"frantic and scared" and/or " fearfully rushed into the ‘killing box’"horses in this clip? http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/stop-knackery-abuse

Disgusting as these callus men treated these horses, Natures Child's body language was neither, "frantic, scared or fearful", nor was the other horse it didnt have a clue what the idiot weilding the pipe wanted of it. she was a old girl who wondered what this pair of idiots were doing. Their ability to communicate without that bloody plastic pipe should have had them charged as much for their cruelty in how they dispatched the horses in their charge.

then the 'calm' cattle in the kill pen? They work hard to keep them calm 500 to 1000 kg of fearful bovine can not only snap fences like twigs, they also send their meat purple and unsaleable when stressed, same applies to horses, chooks.

These men obviously do know their job,doesnt make it any less awful to watch, the chap above the killing box has the stun gun and uses it at 1.27 into the clip, the first one doesnt look like it even saw it comming the second at 2.24, IS TERRIFIED.

Just because you do not have the same affection for cattle does not make them any less capable of terror and they get VERY scared of strange noises and sights. just watch a load in a semi at the lights staring in fear at the weird cars they have never seen before.

ALL slaughter is confronting regardless

I know how sick watching either video made me feel

Oh rightyo. So watching a video you went out for way to watch made you feel sick so you posted it to make everyone else feel sick. Makes a lot of sense!

thanks for having it moved, sheridan.

Was that not exactly the intent of the makers and poster of the original video?

The second certainaly was not. Read who made it, it is a state of the art humane slaughter facility.

There seems to be a very noticable double standard in effect here? Or am I mistaken?

Edited March 19, 2013 by inez

[WoofnHoof]

We are not talking about pigs we are talking about horses, and there are physiological differences as well as psychological differences across the range of breeds that impact on their welfare when applied in a generic meat processing scenario. Is there some reason you cannot acknowledge that breeds which have been selected for generations for a certain purpose may not be ideally suited for a different purpose as a result? I own a husky, if you want a dog that comes when called most people will advise not to get this breed, recall is not something that has been considered important to husky breeders and therefore it is not something that they are geared towards or comes easily to them.

It's very simple, if people want to use horses for meat then breed towards ones that are suitable for purpose, there are some draft breeds that are purpose bred for meat overseas for example. But don't pretend that sending TBs or kids ponies for meat is okay just because it is inconvenient to consider otherwise.

What is even simpler, if someone wants a good riding horse or a kids pony and its at a auction guess what?

You do not need to ban auction's you do not need to shut down doggers. All they need to do is outbid the doggers. It is rather common knowledge they have a very set limit and are easily outbid.

What makes it a right to demand doggers be put out of business so cheap ponies are available?

I fail to understand why anyone is prepared to pay more for a dog than the majority would ever be prepared pay out for a horse or pony with three and more times the lifespan of a dog?

I didn't realise this thread had been moved but it's clear my point has been missed anyway so I'll leave you to it.

[inez]

Spotted this on another forum. A Lot more realistic than so many here. I find it quite strange how many people can decide to lump one species as "meat" another as "pet" and be comfortable with the double standard thus created.

"Horsegears

Horsegears is online now Senior Member

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You have to be realistic. If a horse is bred to race and is no good, it may be better off PTS.

If putting a horse down is cruel, then all those who bred cows for slaughter etc, and us who are eating the meats are also being cruel. "

Edited April 3, 2013 by inez

[BlackJaq]

Putting to sleep and slaughter are hardly the same. I have put to sleep a horse with a bullet at home before and thought that was pretty peaceful. I've also driven a couple of pigs to be slaughtered before and found that a lot less peaceful, I'd rather kill my meat at home any day.

And regarding a horse being better off dead if it can't race... Well that is a whole new line of thought.. Better off dead than starving in some hoarders back pasture.. Sure. But better off dead than going on to another career such as jumping, dressage, show hack, pony club mount or general trail buddy.... If you think so then I'm a little worried about your animals when they are no longer able to do what you want them to do...

Edited April 4, 2013 by BlackJaq

[inez]

I pasted a quote from someone else.

I used it to illustrate how differently across the spectrum people think. There is no across the board solution, some have wonderful temprment and would fit in anywhere, some have St Simon's temprement and only a fool would try to make a riding horse out of an equine version of the atomic bomb.

I have had both spectums and in between, one was a gem and we will always celebrate the day he joined us. the other.Totally opposite coin, but ho so stunningly beautiful, well in body, forget the mind........ soonest forgotten the better, at least he didnt kill or cripple anyone before he solved the problem of "will he ever settle down?" himself and died one night in his stable but I doubt anyone who ever handled or rode him will forget him either, certainly not with affection though.

Why do so many seem to think Legislation is going to solve all problems?

It certainly hasnt seemed to work too well re BSL, drugs or criminal activity?

Edited April 10, 2013 by inez

[BlackJaq]

Not sure what your post is supposed to express? Somebody had a horse of poor temperament? So what, it happens with all animals and people, too, for that matter.

I am not advocating for any new laws so I am not sure what your point is here?

[AussieDog]

As a previous owner of a beautiful horse that had to be put to sleep, there wasn't many choices for me to dispose of the body. Owners may very well be sending there horse (pleasure pony or racehorse) to the knackery as they simply have no other way to dispose of the horse.

I had my horse euthanized via injection and then paid nearly $1000 to have it cremated. There was no way it was going to be butchered up at the knackery. For me I didn't have a third option, it was cremation or knackery.

It's an awful industry, and i'm thankful that video of Natures Child wont load on my computer. Just the still pic makes me tear up. I did watch a different video a couple of weeks ago of Laverton Knackery - and it's horrid. Those poor, poor horses. No creature deserves to die so inhumanely.