Crystals In Urine Plus Sensitivity To Food.

[will_454]

We have recently housed our second french bulldog dog Asha a bitch on breeders terms for the breeder of our first male Frenchie.

We took her in at 15 months of age and she had trouble settling in, regurgitating food, runny stool etc. even though she was being fed the same food (Royal Canin Mini).

We went from the RC to Eukanuba prescription low residue kibble for a cycle, went back to RC with the same results and have no ended up on the Eukanuba sensitive stomach (non-prescription). She is doing well on this food, coat is great, keeping it down and at her ideal weight. Over the last few weeks she has developed urinary crystals due to the high alkalinity of her urine. She has been on the following antibiotics:

Cephalexin 200mg - one tablet twice daily, this was for a week but after another urinalysis there was no improvement so the vet switched her to Baytril 150mg half a tablet once a day, half way through the 10 day cycle we also had to put her on Acidurin 100's 1.5 tablets twice daily.

After all this she is on the last day of her Bytril and we are to take a sample of her urine to the vets on Monday.

Off our own backs we have been giving her apple cider vinegar in her food in the mornings and also some cranberry juice. The vet seems to think that if by Monday we haven't cleared this up we need to look into her diet again, which is going to be a painful process due to her sensitive stomach.

To top it all off she came on heat 4 days ago.. Obviously she isn't going to be breed this cycle.

Any thoughts on the sutuation, and possibly other remedies or alternate foods that we can look into, it's been a rough 4 months for her.

[Dogsfevr]

What does the breeder say ??

[minimax]

I'd be ditching the cranberry juice and replacing it with cranberry powder. The extra sugar in the juice is probably negating any effects. I have a pug who had sky high Ph and crystals in her urine, she was on acidurin for ages, to balance it out, as well as acv and a high meat diet (I feed raw).

Gradually it settled, but it took a long time of constant uti's and poking and prodding until it cleared up. She is still on cranberry powder as a preventative.

Some of this can be partly genetic, have you spoken to her breeder about if she's experienced it and How she dealt with it? And about the practicalities of breeding a dog who has these issues...

Edited March 9, 2013 by minimax

[will_454]

The breeder hasn't had any of these issues with any of her siblings or parents (well mum) so she doesn't seem to think it is hereditary, we think it may have stemmed from the whole food issue at the beginning. There are discussions of not breeding her at all including with the vet, I guess ultimately its a bit out of our control.

I will look into purchasing some cranberry powder today, and keep up with that and the ACV.. are there any off she shelf preimum foods that may help with this? Higher quality protein, or different types of protein ie fish or duck etc.

I only say this because even though she is doing well on the sensitive food she still itches and chews at her paws quite a bit so I was thinking a food change could help that too.

[CavsRcute]

If she won't take the cranberry powder, try the tablets.

My girl was prone to constant UTI's and had struvite crystals with a high PH level.

After 2 weeks on the cranberry tablets , everything had reverted to normal.

It is now 3 years and she hasn't had a recurrence

Can't help with the food situation, although my girl is very sensitive to chicken and can only tolerate red meat- both fresh and dry

[minimax]

If she won't take the cranberry powder, try the tablets.

My girl was prone to constant UTI's and had struvite crystals with a high PH level.

After 2 weeks on the cranberry tablets , everything had reverted to normal.

It is now 3 years and she hasn't had a recurrence

Can't help with the food situation, although my girl is very sensitive to chicken and can only tolerate red meat- both fresh and dry

Yep, cranberry tablets could work too. I break open the capsules and mix the powder with Max's food. The concept of cranberry is that it makes the bladder the type of environment that infection can't adhre too, basically. I'm not sure the cranberry juice would be concentrated enough to be doing that.

You can get a special food for dogs with crystals, not sure how it would go for dogs with other sensitivities though.

[~Anne~]

As well as the cranberry, you need to encourage drinking to continually flush the bladder. I'd be adding a small amount of salt to her food.

I have a rescue bitch here that has had two surgeries to remove stones prior to coming in. She continually had UTIs and did for the first 3 months of joining us. There remains debate about whether the alkalinity causes the infection or the infection causes the alkalinity. Either way, struvites form.

We put her on long term antibiotics and switched her to prescriptives. She remains crystal free.

I have a friend who feeds natural, instead of the kibble, and she has a bitch the same. I'm happy to get the diet for you if you like.

[will_454]

Ended up getting the cranberry capsules 10,000 earlier today, will start them with her dinner. I think they are the best of both worlds incase she won't take it whole I can open it up and sprinkle on her food.

As for fluid intake it seems that the ACV promote her drinking, I have definitely noticed the difference since we started her on that. I might give the salt a try too.

I would be interested in the alternative diet if you were able to find out, I appreciate the offer. I am going to have a chat to the vet about the prescription diets on Monday and see what they are going to recommend.

[Rappie]

Has it actually been established that the dog has a urinary tract infection to warrant the change in antibiotics? Although UTI can be associated with a higher pH of urine and struvite crystals it is certainly not a definite assumption positive ID requires a urine culture, or at a minimum examination of the stained sediment from a sterile urine sample. What has the concentration of the urine been like? Have super fresh samples been examined?

[Nekhbet]

No I wouldnt breed from this bitch either. It's not a short term, common problem she has multiple long term problems happening.

Off our own backs we have been giving her apple cider vinegar in her food in the mornings and also some cranberry juice. The vet seems to think that if by Monday we haven't cleared this up we need to look into her diet again, which is going to be a painful process due to her sensitive stomach.

Does the vet know about the additives? Have you also been keeping a food diary of everything that goes into her mouth?

Has it actually been established that the dog has a urinary tract infection to warrant the change in antibiotics? Although UTI can be associated with a higher pH of urine and struvite crystals it is certainly not a definite assumption positive ID requires a urine culture, or at a minimum examination of the stained sediment from a sterile urine sample. What has the concentration of the urine been like? Have super fresh samples been examined?

Rappie's right, have they done enough tests to see what it actually is or are they just throwing everything at the dog until it works, and ruining it's good body bacteria in the process.

[minimax]

I was going to ask if they'd taken a direct sample from the bladder, or How the samples had been collected.

The best samples we got from Max were from a needle through into her bladder, even fresh samples collected as she peed managed to pick up random stuff and give incorrect results a few times.

[will_454]

The first and last urine sample the vet has inspected have been from her morning urination, taken during a lunch break in a sterile urine sample pot and refrigerated until it got there. The middle sample was taken from a sample she gave at the vets

Concentration is yellow in the morning but is much clearer in the afternoon when we get home after she has been drinking water during the day.

The vet knows about all additives and she is fed nothing but her kibble plus any of the above additives - she is fed twice daily, no treats except nylabones. As for the examination she has had 3 urinologys so far, there has been no mention of UTI's however there are struvite crystals and a small amount blood/white blood cells in her urine, but she is not weeing out blood so to speak nor is she having issues weeing.

One thing I did leave up of my initial post was that what started all of this was what seemed slight loss of bladder control, if she was excited when I got home from work she would urinate while she was walking/jumping around and it seemed like she didn't know it was happening, she was also dripping urine while inside, no large puddles just drops, like she didn't know she had to go.

I will get some further information on Monday, what is everyone's thoughts on Protexin?

[~Anne~]

Now I'm confused, if there is no UTI why is she on antibiotics?

I'm not sure protexin will do much for her bladder would it? It would certainly help her upset stomach though I believe.

I agree about the sample being taken from the bladder. We did this for Olivia. Olivia's problem though was that the infection returned almost immediately after she finished the antibiotics (we suspected it actually never cleared and hadn't for several years). Her last round of antibiotics were given for 6 weeks straight, after the sample from the bladder. We tested a couple of weeks after she finished and she was finally clear.

So far so good, it's now been 3 years plus and still no sign of crystals or infection. I really encourage lots of drinking though and she remains on prescriptives and nothing else.

[will_454]

I only mentioned that there has been no mention of a UTI, I assumed blood in the urine indicated this anyway?

We are definitely pushing the drinking, putting her water bowl informer other when she finished eating and makig sure she has access to fresh water all day.

Tomorrow at the vets I'll confirm all the details and also enquire as to the short lengths of the antibiotic courses.

[will_454]

We went to the vet this morning with a 2 hour old urine sample, so relatively fresh in comparison to the other times.

After the urinalysis it seems as though the crystals are all but gone and her pH is back to normal.. The crystals did cause an inflamed/aggravated urinary tract so she is on Metacam 1mg once a day for a week for that. There is still a very small amount of blood in the urine but as I mentioned before she is still on heat.

She is also on the Baytril and Acidurin for another week to make sure we get rid of the crystals for good. We will keep her on the cranberry powder/capsules and keep up with the ACV to promote a higher fluid intake.

It seems as though she is on the mend, we need to take another urine sample out Sunday next week for a final analysis.

[Rappie]

It's good to hear that the results are more normal. However, both an increase in urine pH and crystal formation are something that can occur with time and storage of the urine. Crystals are also a normal feature of highly concentrated urine, but in some circumstances and clinical presentations their presence can imply that there may be an underlying problem. Unless there was a UTI, the fact that they have cleared with antibiotic treatment may be coincidental. The most important thing is that that your dog is improving.

[~Anne~]

I encourage Olivia to drink with either a yoghurt water mix each morning, pet milk plus water or broth. Her prescriptives obviously also make her thirsty so she drinks water during the day as well. It always helps to add water to their food to if you can.