Collaboration

[Sheridan]

Thanks Janba. I must admit I feel bewildered about why this thread degenerated into personal attacks.

Sheridan, my relatives have been members of RASKC/NSWCC/Dogs NSW continuously since 1944 ( and I have photos of my grandparents and great-grandparents with their purebred dogs, dating back before WWi), but my passion is for dogs and their welfare, not simply for one subset of the species.

Since when has expressing bewilderment at what someone is on about an attack?

[WreckitWhippet]

I don't want vets to be adding anything about my dogs to any data base. All information about my dogs should be protected by patient confidentiality and they should not be disclosing anything.

[SwaY]

Everyone can google but what is google telling them? Some of its correct some of it isn't and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference, look at all the 'facts' that get thrown around on FB without even the hint of verification, people just believe it and pass it on as if it is true.

There's a wealth of information available on GTA's website. How hard is it for someone to look up information pertaining to their potential breed of choice.

Between breeders websites, breed clubs and testing labs, it's all there and freely available to anyone who can be bothered and that includes vets.

I am all for health testing and having public results - My dogs are tested and the results are on my website.

I also host/run a Hip & Elbow database to get a breed average for our breed that has no mandatory testing.

BUT the buyers needs to research and research and do more research.

A public database means people can see results but in reality what does it mean to the lay person if they don't understand it?

There has been plenty of media stories on puppy farms and BYB and yet people still buy from them???

[WoofnHoof]

I don't want vets to be adding anything about my dogs to any data base. All information about my dogs should be protected by patient confidentiality and they should not be disclosing anything.

Does patient confidentiality apply to dogs? I'd be surprised if current information about hereditary diseases wasn't coming from vets, do they not participate in surveys, studies etc?

Everyone can google but what is google telling them? Some of its correct some of it isn't and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference, look at all the 'facts' that get thrown around on FB without even the hint of verification, people just believe it and pass it on as if it is true.

There's a wealth of information available on GTA's website. How hard is it for someone to look up information pertaining to their potential breed of choice.

Between breeders websites, breed clubs and testing labs, it's all there and freely available to anyone who can be bothered and that includes vets.

I am all for health testing and having public results - My dogs are tested and the results are on my website.

I also host/run a Hip & Elbow database to get a breed average for our breed that has no mandatory testing.

BUT the buyers needs to research and research and do more research.

A public database means people can see results but in reality what does it mean to the lay person if they don't understand it?

There has been plenty of media stories on puppy farms and BYB and yet people still buy from them???

Why make it hard and confusing? Why not integrate it into one source for ALL the correct information, how do people know which sites are providing up to date and correct info? Not everyone has a research degree or the time to do one in order to find out a bit about their breed.

Even just a central hub with the links to the right websites and endorsed by those with some authority (ANKC, AVA etc) would be so helpful for those who can't sort through the inter webs to figure out what's what.

ETA re the puppy farm/BYB thing it is not easy for the general public to reconcile the images of breeding dogs in filthy conditions with the cute clean puppy and the nice lady selling it, if they recognised a puppy farmer they would indeed steer clear but the visual disconnect is where the inconsistency comes in. All the anti puppy farm publicity has been centered around images of dirty dogs and dodgy sellers, those who present a different picture are not directly connected in the mind of the buyer.

Edited March 9, 2013 by WoofnHoof

[SwaY]

Why make it hard and confusing? Why not integrate it into one source for ALL the correct information, how do people know which sites are providing up to date and correct info? Not everyone has a research degree or the time to do one in order to find out a bit about their breed.

Even just a central hub with the links to the right websites and endorsed by those with some authority (ANKC, AVA etc) would be so helpful for those who can't sort through the inter webs to figure out what's what.

Links have already been posted for a website that does this...

Not an Australian site but one that basically does this (and aust breeders etc can use it): http://www.offa.org/

also http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/intro.htm is useful

[LizT]

Had a think about this, and you know I don't think I have ever had a dr ask me about my family history (though I think I did volunteer that info myself once when going to ask about something specific to do with that history.) Otherwise many drs appts have been not much different from most vet appts. You go for a reason and get that treated/done. it would be nice if vets were able to provide that service but in the end they are not much different from your average GP. And unless they have a particular interest in a field they are unlikely to pursue it very deeply. Genetic testing of dogs is rather specialist knowledge for a vet who deals with a range of species and sees a range of dogs both pure and crossbreed and all except those with a keen interest are unlikely to even know some of the breeds they see. They may simply not have time during a busy consult to look up for every patient what tests are recommended for that breed. And may not have that facility available in their consult room to do it there and then. Frankly sometimes itoo it can be hard enough for them to get basic health care messages across. A good idea, but not sure how practical for the general GP vet it would be?

I agree espinay2, I went to a Doctor and after much discussion about Hormone Replacement Therapy we decided to "trial it". It was only when I read the enclosed leaflet that I became aware of the warning that this product was not recommended for someone with fibroids as they become larger. The doctor never asked me and honestly, I had dismissed them from my mind as they had never given me any problems. It is only because I had an ultrasound years ago and the Doctor pointed out I had some fibroids that I then recalled this information ONLY after reading the leaflet.

Most medicos will be dealing with the symptoms and problems presented, and with the vat majority of dogs coming from sources that have no record of family medical history or health testing it would be a futile exercise asking a Pet owner "Does your dogs parents have a history of 'such and such' a condition?"

Edited March 9, 2013 by LizT

[WoofnHoof]

Why make it hard and confusing? Why not integrate it into one source for ALL the correct information, how do people know which sites are providing up to date and correct info? Not everyone has a research degree or the time to do one in order to find out a bit about their breed.

Even just a central hub with the links to the right websites and endorsed by those with some authority (ANKC, AVA etc) would be so helpful for those who can't sort through the inter webs to figure out what's what.

Links have already been posted for a website that does this...

Not an Australian site but one that basically does this (and aust breeders etc can use it): http://www.offa.org/

also http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/intro.htm is useful

I have seen those pages before and they are good ones but as stated they aren't Australian sites and they are only relevant if you are researching diseases already, I'd like to see a 'Dog Hub' type resource where you can go to look at breeds, find breeders and also find all the health info in the one place. A bit like a larger version of the Dogz breed pages or Dog breeds 101 section, something that encompasses everything the average dog owner needs to know in a clear and concise format.

[espinay2]

IMO there is a big danger that such a site would be huge, confusing and be a phenomenal exercise to try and keep up to date and accurate. Think of the wide expertise that would need to be employed to set up and maintain it. All those breeds and all that specialist info. Keeping it up to date for one breed can be a chalkenge. The reason why most general websites link to specialist ones.

Note the Lida website is an Australian site (discussed plenty of times before) contributed to by vets but frankly the info on it is so inaccurate it is not funny. This may be due to reporting quality, the skills and bias if the people running the website or whatever, but I know for my own breed (I have mentioned this previously too - look for the threads or perhaps someone can post a link - I am on my phone) they list things that have never really been heard of in the breed and don't include some that are far more known!! As an example, there is also listed for the breed inverted vulva as being an issue. Now I happen to know that this was the result of reporting by a vet who examined a dog I own who did look slightly inverted when around 4months of age but once grown is not. The website does not tell you any of this though. Is an issue such as this seen in one dog and given without any other statistics or info on the website going to give an accurate picture of the breed?

Edited March 10, 2013 by espinay2

[mita]

Good topic to bring up, IMO.

There's a website set up & managed by Tibetan Spaniel breeders. They have an international working party on health matters. Thanks to their efforts over time, there's great control of PRA which has been found in the breed. Each country has a representative on this working group (you'll see an Australian breeder listed). Bloodlines tested & cleared are listed... as are any dogs where PRA has been detected.

Very useful info to know about. Only yesterday, I referred someone who's rescued a purebred Tibbie (pedigree known) to this site, to show how Australian p/b Tibbies are free of PRA.

http://www.tibbies.net/itswp/

Edited March 10, 2013 by mita

[WoofnHoof]

IMO there is a big danger that such a site would be huge, confusing and be a phenomenal exercise to try and keep up to date and accurate. Think of the wide expertise that would need to be employed to set up and maintain it. All those breeds and all that specialist info. Keeping it up to date for one breed can be a chalkenge. The reason why most general websites link to specialist ones.

Note the Lida website is an Australian site (discussed plenty of times before) contributed to by vets but frankly the info on it is so inaccurate it is not funny. This may be due to reporting quality, the skills and bias if the people running the website or whatever, but I know for my own breed (I have mentioned this previously too - look for the threads or perhaps someone can post a link - I am on my phone) they list things that have never really been heard of in the breed and don't include some that are far more known!! As an example, there is also listed for the breed inverted vulva as being an issue. Now I happen to know that this was the result of reporting by a vet who examined a dog I own who did look slightly inverted when around 4months of age but once grown is not. The website does not tell you any of this though. Is an issue such as this seen in one dog and given without any other statistics or info on the website going to give an accurate picture of the breed?

That's a good point, is there a central point at which breed clubs can be found? I know plenty of Joe Public dog owners wouldn't even know there is a club for their breed much less where to find it. I knew SFA about my breeds before I came here and I'd owned dogs for years, so have a lot of people I know.

I agree that links to breed clubs would be far easier to manage than one site that encompasses the whole thing, although it would be useful if they came under an official umbrella like the ANKC so that its easier to find affiliated clubs and have them all follow the same format to keep it simple for people who don't have much time to trawl through several pages trying to find the relevant info. They could follow on to a more complex it individualized format but the first page could keep the same structure for each club and health data etc also simple and easy to navigate.

[espinay2]

A central point? DOL lists and links all the breed clubs on each of the individual breed pages!

[WoofnHoof]

A central point? DOL lists and links all the breed clubs on each of the individual breed pages!

Lol so it does! Doh! :laugh: Well since we have a central point I think more promotion would be the go to get more people making DOL their first stop when they search? Would be good to get more public exposure to the site.

[OSoSwift]

yes client confidentiality applies to animals, any conditions they may have or any treatment they are recieving.

If information is supplied it would have to be done with owners permission or in such a way as not to identify the dog/animal

[espinay2]

A central point? DOL lists and links all the breed clubs on each of the individual breed pages!

Lol so it does! Doh! :laugh: Well since we have a central point I think more promotion would be the go to get more people making DOL their first stop when they search? Would be good to get more public exposure to the site.

Anyone doing a search on the Internet for puppies of a particular breed for sale will generally find DOL one of the top sites listed. Not really hard to find.

[SwaY]

A central point? DOL lists and links all the breed clubs on each of the individual breed pages!

Lol so it does! Doh! :laugh: Well since we have a central point I think more promotion would be the go to get more people making DOL their first stop when they search? Would be good to get more public exposure to the site.

Anyone doing a search on the Internet for puppies of a particular breed for sale will generally find DOL one of the top sites listed. Not really hard to find.

I just search for

Buy puppy

Buy dog

And DOL was in the top 3, again buyers need to put some effort in and research.

[WoofnHoof]

A central point? DOL lists and links all the breed clubs on each of the individual breed pages!

Lol so it does! Doh! :laugh: Well since we have a central point I think more promotion would be the go to get more people making DOL their first stop when they search? Would be good to get more public exposure to the site.

Anyone doing a search on the Internet for puppies of a particular breed for sale will generally find DOL one of the top sites listed. Not really hard to find.

I just search for

Buy puppy

Buy dog

And DOL was in the top 3, again buyers need to put some effort in and research.

So how do we get them to do that? Registered pure breeds are declining, if its not promotion then what is it?

[SwaY]

So how do we get them to do that? Registered pure breeds are declining, if its not promotion then what is it?

You can lead a horse to water as the saying goes...

If people want to research they will, if they don't they won't - nothing you can do about it.

I think registered pure breed breeders need to advertise in places that the average person looks at for a puppy

Trading Post

Petlink

Local Paper

These places are full of BYB and very few pure bred puppies - go to the buyers !

I think pets are on a big decline everywhere -

Many people don't have time, or expenses for pets these days.

[Sheridan]

So how do we get them to do that? Registered pure breeds are declining, if its not promotion then what is it?

You can lead a horse to water as the saying goes...

If people want to research they will, if they don't they won't - nothing you can do about it.

I think registered pure breed breeders need to advertise in places that the average person looks at for a puppy

Trading Post

Petlink

Local Paper

These places are full of BYB and very few pure bred puppies - go to the buyers !

I think pets are on a big decline everywhere -

Many people don't have time, or expenses for pets these days.

And with a trend towards high density living people also don't have the space they think a pet needs.

[Dory the Doted One]

If information is supplied it would have to be done with owners permission or in such a way as not to identify the dog/animal

Wouldn't it defeat the purpose to have the animals names withheld in the case of providing hereditary disease status from the public?

On the one hand we tell people to research, and then on the other hand we are keeping valuable information from them.

I really enjoyed cruising through the OFA website and how it nicely listed related animals to the one you were searching for. Nice seeing the overall trends in results.

I would think that access that information would also help breeders make more informed decisions about breeding pairs as well.

[SwaY]

On the one hand we tell people to research, and then on the other hand we are keeping valuable information from them.

I know cars and dogs are not the same but,

You buy a secondhand car you don't know it's history unless you look at it's log book and ask questions.

When buying a puppy ask to see health testing results and ask questions.

Many people simply don't bother to ask in the first place, we see it on DOL all the time, they come here with problems/issues once they have bought the puppy.

We don't see them here asking questions prior to purchase.