Boofer From B Hill (imp 24 )

[Staffyluv]

I don't think anyone is suggesting they will ship the pups away from mum before 8 weeks?

All I read was when they were weaned and ready to leave mum.

She has only just had the pups, I am sure her carers will do the right thing by her and the pups. I think most of them have done it a few times before..

Edited to make more sense cause I am tired.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Staffyluv

[Xyz]

Thought I would update on this beautiful girl, she was picked up as a stray along with masiff boy (obviously dad ) early in Jan.

He has since gone to a new home in Yass We got this girl out a few weeks ago and has just been waiting to give birth getting fatter and fatter at Rhonda's (her laundry has been a birthing suite a few times lol ).

She's now called Honey and has an adopter waiting for her too when she's weaned the pups

She had 12 pups and 1 stillborn. If any other rescues can share the workload of taking some pups in a few weeks please let me know :D

This bit . Experienced breeders (and this time ANKC rules) know the huge value in keeping pups together and with mum for 8 weeks.

[Trisven13]

Its definitely how tdierekx response read...

]You'll probably find that these little ones will be weaned by their mum fairly early in the piece - of all the large breed litters we've had born in rescue, I can only remember one bitch who was still actively wanting to feed her pups on a regular basis after 4 weeks... and with a litter of 12, I'm seeing this girl possibly being "over it" around the same timeframe.

Pups that come to my place have surrogate mother figures in my older 2 dogs... who are only too happy to nurture them as if they were their own pups and teach them correct behaviours and how to get along.

I've fostered pups as young as 4 weeks old here - not by choice, but with the right exposures to the right stimuli, they've all turned out to be lovely well-adjusted little canine citizens.

[Staffyluv]

Tris just because they are weaned doesn't mean they are moving them away from mum.. I suppose you could read it like that though.

I see what you mean but 'a few weeks' could just be a figure of speech and not actually mean 3 weeks.

I'm sure the carers will do the best for the puppies and mum :)

[indigirl]

God! If you aren't goimg to do the right thing by the pups then its NOT rescue. These pups should never have been allowed to whelp you know NOTHING of the breeding behind them so who knows what their tempers to will be. They are a large breed, that's just great " .. 12 large breed pups out there with who knows what temps.. And now you want to remove them from mum before 8 weeks of age?

You clearly have NO idea about what's best for puppies so PLEASE do not whelp any more!! They need to be with siblings for socialization reasons! It's not just about being fed by mum. Do some research!

I'm so over irresponsible "rescue"

[Bilbo Baggins]

This thread appals me.

[Alkhe]

Oh dear...

[Guest Clover]

Just so angry - DON'T RESCUE A PREGNANT BITCH UNLESS YOU CAN CARE FOR HER AND THE PUPS UNTIL THEY'RE 8 WEEKS OLD. :mad

Trish you said exactly what I was thinking. Mum should have been desexed as soon as there was suspicion of her being pregnant. Someone decided not to so now it is up to them to take the responsibility and do the right thing by the babies. Taking them away from their mother is not the right thing : .

[Moody]

In that case, if she should have been desexed as soon as pregnancy was suspected, the pound should have been taking care of that. But they didn't, and her pregnancy progressed. Personally, I think it would be a cause for ethical concern to see either a bitch in advanced pregnancy stages put down, or the pups aborted. I'm not sure how that can be advocated. And that is apparently what would have occured if this girl didn't get her rescue.

I'd respectfully request that the very strong language that has emerged in this thread be toned down. None of us know the full circumstances but we do know that the people who have taken on this girl and the pups are the best friends a dog could ever ask for and would only ever act in the best interests of the dogs...all of them.

[tdierikx]

Let me set the record straight... I am NOT advocating shipping off these pups at an early age. If they are fine with their mum until 8 weeks of age, that would be great (and desirable).

We've had our share of end stage pregnancy bitches come into care and whelp - and the fact is that some large breed dogs that have large litters can be "over it" by about the 4 week mark... to the point of actively detering the pups from suckling with force. Leaving pups with a bitch that will attack them because she's sick of them chewing on her boobs isn't the best way to socialise them either, right?

Only the people who actually have this girl and her babies in care will know what kind of mother she is, and as the pups get older, they are going to have to make the best choices for them to maximise their chances of growing up happy, healthy, and well adjusted canine citizens. Berating them about whether the bitch should have been desexed before whelping is moot really - the pups are here, and now they are looking for help when the pups are old enough to go... that's all.

I've still got my hand up for however many of the pups they want to send me... and I've got plenty of pup rearing experience... *grin*

T.

[ninahartland]

Bloody hell...settle down everyone !!!

Just seen all this........no the pups will definately not be going anywhere till at least 8 weeks old, I never suggested they would be. Just mentioned that maybe we would need help from another rescue to take some if needed which also widens the chances to rehome them.....

No other rescue committed to helping her while she was in the pound so by the time we took her she was 2 weeks away from giving birth..much too late to desex and abort but thats just my opinion.

To those that asked how mum was going.....there will be update pics soon hopefully. They are 1 week old today, mum has a home to go to when ready. She's a good mum (had plenty of practice Id say ) and it will be her last.

There's another young mastiff girl currently needing help also believed to be pregnant according to ranger...perhaps someone could put their hand up to help her as if she is pregnant it would be only just...............

[indigirl]

Let me set the record straight... I am NOT advocating shipping off these pups at an early age. If they are fine with their mum until 8 weeks of age, that would be great (and desirable).

We've had our share of end stage pregnancy bitches come into care and whelp - and the fact is that some large breed dogs that have large litters can be "over it" by about the 4 week mark... to the point of actively detering the pups from suckling with force. Leaving pups with a bitch that will attack them because she's sick of them chewing on her boobs isn't the best way to socialise them either, right?

Only the people who actually have this girl and her babies in care will know what kind of mother she is, and as the pups get older, they are going to have to make the best choices for them to maximise their chances of growing up happy, healthy, and well adjusted canine citizens. Berating them about whether the bitch should have been desexed before whelping is moot really - the pups are here, and now they are looking for help when the pups are old enough to go... that's all.

I've still got my hand up for however many of the pups they want to send me... and I've got plenty of pup rearing experience... *grin*

T.

It's not about keeping them with mum, it's about keeping them with their siblings! The pups socialize each other. No one s suggesting you try to force mum to keep feeding them. By all means if she's over it then wean the pups. However the pups need to remain together and can still have visits from mum. It's like you think the only value of mum to these pups is as a milk machine.

Seriously if you think removing pups from mum and spitting up the litter at 4 weeks if age is the best thing for them, then your lack of knowledge about raising puppies really does concern me.

[Trisven13]

I'm pleased to hear that they won't be removed from their mother until they're 8 weeks of age.

tdierikx - I'm sorry but I'm still gobmsacked that you are so accepting of a pup being removed from its mother at 4 weeks of age. I've rescued many late end pregnancy bitches and yes, sure they don't want to feed their pups often from 4 weeks of age but they still provide invaluable socialisation & learning - even if that is "piss off and leave my boobs alone". Any bitch who would be aggressive towards her pups shouldn't have pups - these things are genetic.

[Loving my Oldies]

I have late desexed pregnant rescue bitches, and the risk is far less than letting them whelp and raise youngsters. I cannot see why this is allowed to happen - high risk to the bitch and pups, and flying in the face of what rescue is supposed to be about.

Yes it's not pleasant, but that's rescue. If people want to breed dogs they should do so outside of a rescue umbrella.

Breeders releasing pups less than 8 weeks old get crucified around here - but this time it's ok?? :confused:

God! If you aren't goimg to do the right thing by the pups then its NOT rescue. These pups should never have been allowed to whelp you know NOTHING of the breeding behind them so who knows what their tempers to will be. They are a large breed, that's just great " .. 12 large breed pups out there with who knows what temps.. And now you want to remove them from mum before 8 weeks of age?

You clearly have NO idea about what's best for puppies so PLEASE do not whelp any more!! They need to be with siblings for socialization reasons! It's not just about being fed by mum. Do some research!

I'm so over irresponsible "rescue"

This thread appals me.

From what perspective? Those who think - oh, how wonderful!!! Puppies? Those who think the pups should never have been born? Or what. Just curious because your post doesn't really indicate why you are appalled.

I'm pleased to hear that they won't be removed from their mother until they're 8 weeks of age.

tdierikx - I'm sorry but I'm still gobmsacked that you are so accepting of a pup being removed from its mother at 4 weeks of age. I've rescued many late end pregnancy bitches and yes, sure they don't want to feed their pups often from 4 weeks of age but they still provide invaluable socialisation & learning - even if that is "piss off and leave my boobs alone". Any bitch who would be aggressive towards her pups shouldn't have pups - these things are genetic.

Exactly right Trish.

But let's be honest, here. Pups of any breed, unknown or known, sell more quickly than adults.

[Moody]

"But let's be honest, here. Pups of any breed, unknown or known, sell more quickly than adults"

I'm sure that there couldn't possibly be an insinuation here that this bitch and her pups have been taken in as a revenue-raising exercise, because anyone who knows Rhonda and Nina would know that this would be the very last motivation in the world for the rescue of this girl, and would know it would be entirely about ensuring that a worthy dog does not lose her life and those of her late stage pregnancy pups when no one else in the rescue community is putting their hand up for them, despite entreaties for help week after week after week when this dog was in the pound.

But, not all people reading this thread may be aware of the exceptional work of Rhonda and Nina and their complete lack of interest in profitting from puppies, so best to clarify any possible misconceptions on this score.

I for one feel gratitude that Nina and Rhonda stepped up when no-one else did and want to thank them for their constantly dedicated commitment to the dogs, through thick and thin when rescue can be difficult and trying for all sorts of reasons.

I'd respectfully suggest that a separate thread be started for those interested in continuing a discussion and swapping experiences about whelping and puppy raising. I'm sure that there would be a lot of interest in a general discussion about that.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Moody

[minimax]

Bloody hell...settle down everyone !!!

Just seen all this........no the pups will definately not be going anywhere till at least 8 weeks old, I never suggested they would be. Just mentioned that maybe we would need help from another rescue to take some if needed which also widens the chances to rehome them.....

No other rescue committed to helping her while she was in the pound so by the time we took her she was 2 weeks away from giving birth..much too late to desex and abort but thats just my opinion.

To those that asked how mum was going.....there will be update pics soon hopefully. They are 1 week old today, mum has a home to go to when ready. She's a good mum (had plenty of practice Id say ) and it will be her last.

There's another young mastiff girl currently needing help also believed to be pregnant according to ranger...perhaps someone could put their hand up to help her as if she is pregnant it would be only just...............

There you go, those screaming about getting pregnant bitches desexed, here is your opportunity. Which one of you is putting their hand up to help this one?

[tdierikx]

Let me set the record straight... I am NOT advocating shipping off these pups at an early age. If they are fine with their mum until 8 weeks of age, that would be great (and desirable).

We've had our share of end stage pregnancy bitches come into care and whelp - and the fact is that some large breed dogs that have large litters can be "over it" by about the 4 week mark... to the point of actively detering the pups from suckling with force. Leaving pups with a bitch that will attack them because she's sick of them chewing on her boobs isn't the best way to socialise them either, right?

Only the people who actually have this girl and her babies in care will know what kind of mother she is, and as the pups get older, they are going to have to make the best choices for them to maximise their chances of growing up happy, healthy, and well adjusted canine citizens. Berating them about whether the bitch should have been desexed before whelping is moot really - the pups are here, and now they are looking for help when the pups are old enough to go... that's all.

I've still got my hand up for however many of the pups they want to send me... and I've got plenty of pup rearing experience... *grin*

T.

It's not about keeping them with mum, it's about keeping them with their siblings! The pups socialize each other. No one s suggesting you try to force mum to keep feeding them. By all means if she's over it then wean the pups. However the pups need to remain together and can still have visits from mum. It's like you think the only value of mum to these pups is as a milk machine.

Seriously if you think removing pups from mum and spitting up the litter at 4 weeks if age is the best thing for them, then your lack of knowledge about raising puppies really does concern me.

I've stuck my hand up for however many pups they want to send me... happy to take all 12 of them actually.

And for the last time... I am NOT advocating removal of ANY pups from their mother or siblings before they are ready...

Jeebus people... please READ other people's posts FULLY before coming to the wrong conclusions...

My posts relating to my puppy rearing experience were anecdotal - I'm certainly NOT asking to be sent 4 week old pups!

T.

[Aphra]

Rhonda and Nina often take the dogs left over, the ones which are too big, too plain, too ordinary and they do good work in looking after them and rehoming them. They didn't take this dog so that could <insert incredibly offensive suggestion here> make money out of puppies, but because no-one else wanted this poor girl.

And while I agree that litter mates are important for socialisation, with 12 puppies, splitting the litter up once the pups are weaned isn't going to leave puppies without siblings or adult dogs to show them the ropes.

And for the record, while we don't mind desexing dogs or cats early in the pregnancy, I wouldn't desex an animal late if the babiesare viable. Other rescues make other decisions and that's their choice, but it's not one that I would make.

[Loving my Oldies]

I think if you went back to look at some of your posts here, tdierikx, you will find that people would have been quite justified in thinking you were happy to take the pups at 4 weeks of age. You were the one who mentioned 4 weeks several times and when the pups could feed on their own.

[tdierikx]

IF the pups needed to be separated from their mother at that age... certainly not advocating that they be removed at that age for the fun of it... *sheesh*

Why do people have the need to read the very worst possible connotation from posts here on DOL. You'd think that I've been around long enough and have fostered enough pups along the way for MOST people here to know that I'm not so gung ho as to advocate early removal of pups into foster care if it's not absolutely necessary...

T.