*kirty* Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Haha the vast majority of people posting in this thread work tirelessly in rescue. Hoarding animals, warehousing animals and keeping animals in sub-standard conditions is NOT ethical rescue. I run a private rescue myself and as much as I wish I could save everything, I know that I can't. So I focus on rescuing properly - with proper quarantine, safe and enriching housing, appropriate training and socialisation, and the best food I can afford. Taking on more animals would negatively impact the quality of life for the current fosters. Sometimes people need to realise their limitations and that understand the 'save everything at whatever cost' is not always in the best interest of the animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 it intrigued me why some people seemed to be so incredibly passionate with their derision of what seems to be a well known and well respected organisation. Are you saying Moorook is a well respected organisation? I want to check you really mean that. If you have read this thread you should know a bit more about what really happens at Moorook. I guess if you think hoarders who are up on some pretty serious cruelty charges and keep unrehomeable dogs for years on end in small cages till they go mad are well respected then I don't think anything I say will change your mind. I won't even start on the cat situation Thankfully most people know this is wrong and are doing all they can to help these animals after years of rspca inactivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelp2 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 it intrigued me why some people seemed to be so incredibly passionate with their derision of what seems to be a well known and well respected organisation. Are you saying Moorook is a well respected organisation? I want to check you really mean that. If you have read this thread you should know a bit more about what really happens at Moorook. I guess if you think hoarders who are up on some pretty serious cruelty charges and keep unrehomeable dogs for years on end in small cages till they go mad are well respected then I don't think anything I say will change your mind. I won't even start on the cat situation Thankfully most people know this is wrong and are doing all they can to help these animals after years of rspca inactivity. I gather you have been there then, have inspected the premises thoroughly and know everything there is to know about it, based on your personal observations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 it intrigued me why some people seemed to be so incredibly passionate with their derision of what seems to be a well known and well respected organisation. Are you saying Moorook is a well respected organisation? I want to check you really mean that. If you have read this thread you should know a bit more about what really happens at Moorook. I guess if you think hoarders who are up on some pretty serious cruelty charges and keep unrehomeable dogs for years on end in small cages till they go mad are well respected then I don't think anything I say will change your mind. I won't even start on the cat situation Thankfully most people know this is wrong and are doing all they can to help these animals after years of rspca inactivity. I gather you have been there then, have inspected the premises thoroughly and know everything there is to know about it, based on your personal observations? if you had bothered to read the whole thread then you might have some answers to your questions skelp2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 clearly Skelp, you haven't really read this thread properly at all, or bothered to look at the photos posted by the supporters, or even looked closely at the vision captured on the TT shows, and really had a good look at the conditions that the animals are being warehoused under. And as for helping, if you also bothered reading this thread, you would have seen that help, until recently, was the last thing accepted by the owner. You may also think that 1 person can adequately look after 120 dogs and umpteen cats (at figures quoted variously between 40-80), I don't, no matter how fabulous the conditions are, let alone in the substandard ones here that need an army to come and help clean up before an inspection can occur - in that case, just what are the conditions that the animals are left in the rest of the time? And if you also do not get that the person who took over as the spokesman made everything a million times more difficult with such a belligerent attitude, which he is now planning on unleashing (no pun intended), on the BSL and other rescue groups foolish enough to take him on board (and whether they want him to or not), as well as intending to stand as an independent and also letting loose there with his brand of logic, then I am guessing you might just be one of his friends, and nothing we have said here will make the slightest bit of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Haha the vast majority of people posting in this thread work tirelessly in rescue. Hoarding animals, warehousing animals and keeping animals in sub-standard conditions is NOT ethical rescue. I run a private rescue myself and as much as I wish I could save everything, I know that I can't. So I focus on rescuing properly - with proper quarantine, safe and enriching housing, appropriate training and socialisation, and the best food I can afford. Taking on more animals would negatively impact the quality of life for the current fosters. Sometimes people need to realise their limitations and that understand the 'save everything at whatever cost' is not always in the best interest of the animals. exactly no kill does not or should not mean no life, just because you rescue doesn't mean that gives you the right to hoard and make animals like in inappropriate situation and allow a semi feral cat population grow. Many well respected rescuers have posted in this thread, ethical, responsible rescuers who do the right thing by the animals, not themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 If you have been there skelp then you should have seen the things we are concerned about, if you haven't then how does that make your comments any more factual than ours? One of the supporters said Lola told her there were 120 cats there. That was on Mark's page and she is pro Moorook so no reason to make that up. A lot would be off free ranging in the area all around the shelter once the established free ranging cats drove them out. Skelp, did you know that Lola goes down to Town for three days at a time and any dogs she takes stay in the trailer out the front of her daughter's house? The dogs can't leave the trailer because her daughter's dog is aggressive so if they aren't picked up from new owner they stay in the trailer for three days. Moorook themselves have told someone that if they don't actually take a dog they were looking at that was bought down it meant a three day stay in the trailer. You seem to forget there are lots of people who know Moorook well speaking up. The things Moorook post about themselves are bad enough and they don't see these things as a welfare problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelp2 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I can only surmise from your responses that none of you who are detractors have physically been there, and that your opinions are based on hearsay? Ever heard of the game Chinese Whispers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Have you physically been there? I am fully aware of Chinese whispers which is why I only post things that can be verified or posted by Mark or Moorook. Are you saying Moorook are lying about their own shelter? Are you saying the rspca raid and seizure didn't happen because we weren't there? How many times have you been and what did you think of the conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I also want to point out this is what the Mark and Moorook supporters do, they can't answer questions about the conditions using facts so they deflect and question the person asking questions about their motives. Skelp, can you give us a daily timetable of how one woman can care for 120 dogs and a whole lot of cats in one day, even on the days she is in Adelaide? How does the cat situation satisfy animal welfare standards as we know them? What is the disease management protocol for the dirt runs? These are the type of things that are important to know and I eagerly await your first hand knowledge that will easily refute our concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 No I have not been there and will be the first to admit it. I do however have a great deal of experience, both rescue and breeding, with multi cat husbandry and keeping cats in group situations though, as well as knowledge of basic requirements for socialising both kittens and adult cats, together with disease control and quarantine, and appropriate cat dietary requirements, particularly given the length of time some of these cats may be there. What they are doing with the cats, based on their own admissions, photographic and film evidence provided by their own supporters, presumably to trumpet just how great the animals there have it, is enough to make me cry for those poor cats, and to want something better to be done for them. The lack of appropriate containment is a glaring issue, not to mention the diet, prevention of disease spread, adequacy of socilaising cats and kittens etc - even the fact that a lot can be told about the health of a cat from stool examination, or the sign of blood in the urine - eg whether the stools are firm, mushy, the colour etc Since cats do not generally toilet on demand, the way to pick this up is noticing what they are like when changing the litter trays. If the cats are in a group, then you can isolate the cats to work out which one has issues. When they are all running loose, and doing their business whereever they feel like it, you are not going to pick up easy and early indicators like this of issues going on, until they are a much more visible problem, and by then, given how well cats can hide issues, it may be too late. But of course, if cats are running loose, then there are no pesky litter trays to change, or enclosures to clean and that makes life easier for someone who is time poor - never mind it is far and away NOT in the cats best interests at all under these conditions. And I do not need to physically see the cats to know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelp2 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Have you physically been there? I am fully aware of Chinese whispers which is why I only post things that can be verified or posted by Mark or Moorook. Are you saying Moorook are lying about their own shelter? Are you saying the rspca raid and seizure didn't happen because we weren't there? How many times have you been and what did you think of the conditions? As I said, it seems that none of you have physically been there and are relying on the written word to base your opinions. What I found quite disgusting in this thread is that some of you have allowed those opinions and the moral outrage you obviously feel, as a result of what you perceive, to degenerate into online harassment and outright nastiness and you seem to revel in it, egging each other on to continue harassing. If you are so outraged by this rescue organisation and the RSPCA are investigating them, why not leave them to do so? Why then continue to make life difficult for people who are trying to help? The thread initially intrigued me, and I found that I probably wasted too much time, that could probably have been spent far better, going through 100+ pages of abject nastiness. My conclusion is that there are little people who spend their little lives sitting on a keyboard trying to stir up trouble, for no other reason than they enjoy it. I can't be bothered responding any further because it is pointless. I will leave you to continue your harassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) Have you physically been there? I am fully aware of Chinese whispers which is why I only post things that can be verified or posted by Mark or Moorook. Are you saying Moorook are lying about their own shelter? Are you saying the rspca raid and seizure didn't happen because we weren't there? How many times have you been and what did you think of the conditions? As I said, it seems that none of you have physically been there and are relying on the written word to base your opinions. What I found quite disgusting in this thread is that some of you have allowed those opinions and the moral outrage you obviously feel, as a result of what you perceive, to degenerate into online harassment and outright nastiness and you seem to revel in it, egging each other on to continue harassing. If you are so outraged by this rescue organisation and the RSPCA are investigating them, why not leave them to do so? Why then continue to make life difficult for people who are trying to help? The thread initially intrigued me, and I found that I probably wasted too much time, that could probably have been spent far better, going through 100+ pages of abject nastiness. My conclusion is that there are little people who spend their little lives sitting on a keyboard trying to stir up trouble, for no other reason than they enjoy it. I can't be bothered responding any further because it is pointless. I will leave you to continue your harassment. Which I believe you are also doing? Except you have somehow taken a positive opinion of the shelter, apparently having never seen the photos or footage taken. Edited July 2, 2013 by minimax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Haha have you not yet realized that you are most likely arguing with ether a Mark or Moorook supporter? Of course they are outraged that somebody dares vent the dirty laundry online and that some people don't swallow the crap MA tries to feed everyone who reads his page. Not that Moorook supporters or MA groupies ever harassed anyone online! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 the only thing I ever asked online was why the water bowls were green and why were corrugated iron edges protruding in dog enclosures that were used for the long time stays (when they would be a danger to the dogs) and for that outrage was blocked by MA. Are you saying though that evidence put online by Moorook and its supporters, showing the state of the place, is wrong and in fact it looks nothing like the pictures they have been posting online to show how wonderful it is. Very puzzled why you would make comments like that. In any case, one does not need to see conditions to know how things should be in a place that is being boasted as the best run in the state, and state of the art - and if this place is state of the art to you, then you have very low expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Once I realised that skelp is a Mark supporter I did what I do to deal with them, ask them them explain in facts why we are wrong. Not one of them can do it, they then just tell us we are just lonely desperate housewives who are in love with Mark. That really happens :laugh: Their latest push is that Lola has learned and things have changed. Yet when asked exactly how things have changed and what Lola has learned they say they don't really know or only have their assumptions. Apparently if someone says you should just believe them they are serious, they really think that will happen! I guess because they have reduced their FB friends down to ones that never question anything they get used to being able to say anything they like. The option is still there skelp, you are free to tell us exactly how Lola has addressed the numerous welfare issues identified at the shelter. Those I am not sure how you are going to do this since you've never been there or even seen pictures :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsndogs Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Have you physically been there? I am fully aware of Chinese whispers which is why I only post things that can be verified or posted by Mark or Moorook. Are you saying Moorook are lying about their own shelter? Are you saying the rspca raid and seizure didn't happen because we weren't there? How many times have you been and what did you think of the conditions? As I said, it seems that none of you have physically been there and are relying on the written word to base your opinions. What I found quite disgusting in this thread is that some of you have allowed those opinions and the moral outrage you obviously feel, as a result of what you perceive, to degenerate into online harassment and outright nastiness and you seem to revel in it, egging each other on to continue harassing. If you are so outraged by this rescue organisation and the RSPCA are investigating them, why not leave them to do so? Why then continue to make life difficult for people who are trying to help? The thread initially intrigued me, and I found that I probably wasted too much time, that could probably have been spent far better, going through 100+ pages of abject nastiness. My conclusion is that there are little people who spend their little lives sitting on a keyboard trying to stir up trouble, for no other reason than they enjoy it. I can't be bothered responding any further because it is pointless. I will leave you to continue your harassment. I HAVE been there a few times, seen firsthand the lack of care and heard the blame being passed along. In the same way as another SA rescue in a similar area who HASN'T been in investigated (yet). It's disgusting that Lola would not allow assistance until it got to the point that she had NO choices left. Show me that this will change and I will be one of the first there to support her AND the shelter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 latest from Mark's page - and just love his spin on why he is no longer spokesman for Moorook - nothing like a bit of mistruth to get in the way of a good embellishment. Of course that was why he stepped down - nothing to do with lawyer advice or the fact he was a tool Mark Aldridge shared Moorook Animal Shelter's status.14 hours ago Still a little red tape to jump over, but all in all Moorook passed the RSPCA notices, not that it was far on in the first place :) Today at the shelter the RSPCA came and did their final inspection which, we are thrilled to say, we passed with flying colours. So many people have done some fantastic and wonderful things for the shelter during this time and we would just like to say a HUGE THANKYOU to all that have helped and supported us. It would be remiss of me not to thank our former spokesperson Mark Aldridge for all that he and his friends did for the shelter and we wish him well in his future endeavors. Our current spokesperson, Susan O'Toole, will keep us informed of things and as we know we will fill you in. Once again thank you one and all for supporting us and sharing this tough journey with us. Like · · Share 84 people like this. Karen Jamieson awesome news - congrats to all involved 14 hours ago · Like · 2 Karen Jamieson whatever came of the court case? I've not seen anything re outcome - hoping that the judge threw it out of court & made them apologise to Lola 14 hours ago · Like · 7 Mark Aldridge Susan O'toole is the lawyer, and has the back up of 2 barristers i am working with good people now to ensure this never happens again. 14 hours ago · Like · 12 Karen Jamieson great job Mark, well done xox 14 hours ago · Like · 1 Decerto Chihuahuas Mark Aldridge Why have you given up being spokesperson for Moorook, you were doing such a fantastic job? 14 hours ago · Like · 3 Jody Woods Good job mark you got this off the ground and ran with it and may have passed the baton on but you deserve all the thanks you get! 14 hours ago via mobile · Like · 3 Mark Aldridge I was brought in to protect the animals, help sort council and RSPCA orders, organise a legal team and a development planner, and that was all done, with the help of so many, but I am not finished, I wish to ensure this never happens again, and to do that I had to step back as spokesperson, so I was free to speak on the RSPCA and animal welfare, legal action would have restricted me. 14 hours ago · Like · 12 Decerto Chihuahuas Ah I see, well done excellent job and an amazing amount of hard work, you deserve huge pat on the back! People should vote for you in the next election, amazing commitment and true to your word unlike other politicians 14 hours ago · Like · 7 Declan Harrison What red tape? 14 hours ago via mobile · Like Mark Aldridge Final development planning, and funding restrictions 14 hours ago · Like · 1 Declan Harrison I haven't been following for long so a bit lost sometimes. 14 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1 Joanne Freeling Great job Mark and Thank you for all your hard work..You have your fingers in so many pies ...I admire your dedication and hands on approach to issues no-one else wants to deal with ! 14 hours ago · Like · 3 Donovan Andrew Chin Where's the apology from the RSPCA for the innocent lives they took? 11 hours ago · Like · 3 Robyn Richards we done mark and everyone 5 hours ago · Like · 1 Deb Willett FANTASTIC! cant thank you enough Mark, with love from all the dogs and cats you saved xoxox 4 hours ago · Like · 1 Cat Bat Thank you Mark & all who worked endlessly to get this done. Great news for Moorook, Lola and the animals. Now, let's hope the RSPCA back off for good! 3 hours ago · Like · 1 Samantha Overy Great work for a great cause Mark. I'm just sorry I am not closer so I am able to give Lola a hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 He was pushed, no stepping down for him. He also conveniently ignores the fact there is a criminal trial coming up. Have you been keeping up with the FB pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 so what exactly is he not wanting to occur again - for someone running a substandard rescue facility to have to be answerable to the health and welfare of those animals, to be allowed to warehouse animals forever and a day? Or does he think it entirely reasonable for such persons to demand to the committee looking into dog and cat legislation in SA to fund all the rates, power bills - this from Lolas submission Recognised shelters (especially those making a significant contribution to the community) should be exempt from land rates, land tax, animal registrations and should receive significantly subsidised discounts on other utilities required to run the shelter i.e.Water & Electricity. Oh yes, can see exactly where she wants to go here. I also loved Lolas comments about to them about how breeders should keep dogs (d) a condition requiring that the holder of the permit ensure that any enclosure in which the dogs are kept is properly drained and that run-off is kept off adjoining land; and (e) a condition requiring that the holder of the permit ensure that excreta, food, scraps and other material that is, or is likely to become, offensive is collected daily and, if not immediately disposed of, is kept in a fly proof container of a kind approved by an authorised person; and (f) a condition requiring that the holder of the permit ensure that any enclosure in which the dogs are kept is maintained in a clean and sanitary condition and disinfected regularly; and (g) a condition requiring that the holder of the permit ensure that any enclosure in which the dogs are kept is properly maintained in an aesthetically acceptable condition So that is all you need to do to keep dogs happy clearly - no mention of exercise, handling, no of people needed to look after the 80 digs she claimed on that submission she had (funny how her figures never match the "lower" no Mark kept claiming. Hmmmm Just feel for all those animals though, and hope they are truly getting cared for the way they now should be. Any irrespective how they are now beign cared for, the fact is, without that spotlight being shone on the shelter, nothing would have changed, and it remains to be seen how long things will stay like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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