Are You Serious Jo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I don't have a vendetta against Mark, I am speaking out about the misinformation and lies he is spreading that affects rescue directly. So what we have established is you don't know Mark, haven't been to Moorook, yet you come here defending him and Moorook based on things you've read on his pages. You tell us, who have proof of the problems at Moorook we don't know what we are saying and it's all just a vendetta. Why did you come here if you cannot back up anything you have said? I haven't seen anything on the alleged rspca shelter for the Riverland yet, can you help me with a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdelK9 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 For those that didn't see the TT expose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uy-RqlQ3ots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 For those that didn't see the TT expose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uy-RqlQ3ots ohh come on now, it was hardly an expose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I suggest you watch the video. As I said, you get a pretty good look of the facilities and I shudder to think what they were like previous to the improvements I have seen them all.. and the TT expose.... I said no they are not high class kennels, yes pretty run down.. No doubt. not much different to most peoples backyards hey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 After seeing the shelter on Today Tonight I am in 2 minds about some things. Why people cannot donate food is beyond my comprehension. Unlike money it can't be spent or eaten by humans or used in any way except for the animals so where is the harm ? Why can't the volunteers & local people who support the place fix things up a bit ? Everyone in country areas has some building materials spare around the place, even I have gyprock, wood, tin, tiles, wire & hardware stuff etc around & I am not much on DIY. The place could be made a lot nicer & more comfortable for the animals with some help & donated materials, it need not cost a fortune with some imagination & handy people. The womans heart seems in the right place & she is saving a lot of cats & dogs from euthanasia. She needs practical help not condemnation. Yes its a mess & substandard but could be made so much better. The people who are shouting about it all are not willing to pitch in & help are they ? The big mouth man needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Christina, people over the years have offered to help, one lady I spoke to offered to replace fencing. Others to to generally help out but Lola turned everyone away. How do you help when you are told to bugger off, literally. I'm not talking about my offer, but others who were weren't critical of her. Why do you think people are shouting, because it has been a disgrace for years and she wouldn't fix it and the rspca wouldn't act. Until this she had very few locals who supported her because they refused to condone what was happening there. Ask yourself why she only has a few regular local volunteers. She only let people in because she was forced to, she NEVER allowed working bees before. Can you work out how one woman can feed, water and clean 120 animals, especially when she is away an entire day going to a vet 3 hours away? She can accept donations, she just can't ask for them or imply she is a shelter or charity. That is the risk you take when you go to TT, they aren't known for their research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Oops, I forgot that since they were operating as an animal shelter the ABN doesn't exempt them, so much info my brain is full and I just had a nap. Snook is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 An ex volunteer has joined and is waiting activation, you can get information directly from someone who knows in the inside story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 $4000 a month on 120 dogs is only $33 each, which doesn't really give much of any of them have chronic condition they need medication for, plus don;t forget there are an unknown no of cats who they also claim get desexed, vaccinated, wormed etc. I would actually say that if the vet bill is only that much she is doing pretty well then with that many animals, but think that in actuality, it is actually too small, suggesting that perhaps things aren't all getting perhaps the treatment needed. Re the cats, you only need to look at the videos posted by Mark Aldridge on Youtube, which clearly show that cats just wandering around while the inspectors were there. And I would also certainly compare this to a puppy farm / hoarder - same kind of appalling conditions that the animals are being kept in, and same lack of time being devoted to the care and socialisation. They may be similar to what some animals are kept in within peoples own homes - that does not make it OK, and certainly Mark himself made the claim that what was being done would make them state of the art, though note he is now backing down on that again - he keeps forgetting once it has been written by him online, it is there permanently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Don't forget, that figure of $4000 hasn't been verified either, it might not be true. Mark actually writes a bit then deletes a little later, someone pmed me and told me we were all named on his page again, but this person doesn't know how to get screenshots so we don't have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Okay. I get the picture now. Don't generally follow rescue stuff much as its all too dismal & so sadly lacking in South Australia. The one cat rescue I have heard of gets bad publicity & doesn't seem able to find homes for many. There are 2 other dog rescue groups that I know of & then Moorbrook. The RSPCA & AWL will euthanise before letting any rescue groups or breeders help. I honestly don't know what the solution is if she refuses help. Guess some people think any life is better than no life. Sad situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I don't know if there really is interest in an rspca shelter up there, Mark claims it is fact but I haven't seen any evidence. I would like to see well run council shelter, but after knowing Lola refuses to do what is best for the animals I don't want to see her do it any more. There are some really good rescues down here, they don't get lots of attention because they just get on with it and aren't caught up in scandals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdelK9 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 It's a sad situation for sure... Lola has her supporters and her detractors.. But then doesn't everybody, every business, and every organisation? Was/is Moorook untidy? For sure, I'd be the first to agree. Is it in need of repairs, yes definitely. Is it so bad that dogs shouldn't be there? I have seen nothing to convince me that conditions are so bad that it should be closed down. I am sure if RSPCA had any proof of this they would have thrown the book at Lola, and instantly taken ALL the animals. Instead all they have virtually said, is clean the place up. They took 8 dogs and a cat. Four of those animals were killed, after 'apparently' being seen by an independent Vet. We all know how quick RSPCA are to kill an animal, for reasons that make you shake your head in disbelief. When RSPCA seize an animal, why doesn't the person or organisation the animal was seized from have any rights to also have an independent Vet examination? RSPCA are a law unto themselves. In the case of Moorook, they (the RSPCA) have destroyed the evidence, and expect everyone to believe a Vet that is of course on the RSPCA's books.. whom also is involved in contributing to their extremely high kill rates. If conditions were so bad at Moorook, why did the council continually dump dogs and cats on her door step? Why did RSPCA pass Moorooks inspection late last year, and with all the dogs and cats there? You detractors of her, are you trying to convince me things just all of a sudden fell apart in the past 6 months? I find that very difficult to believe. We should be very careful about taking the word of a disgruntled former employee or volunteer, without direct evidence, to support their claims. I see many volunteers praising the work of Lola. Why should 'A' disgruntled former volunteers word be taken over other volunteers that state differently? I have spoken to dog owners that have rehomed dogs from Moorook, and were very happy. I have spoken to a well respected dog trainer in SA, that spends time at Moorook training dogs and modifying unwanted behaviours. I tend to believe them than the ravings of people that obviously have an axe to grind. Some people just seem to find pleasure in putting others down, just because the person doesn't come up to their own ideals of what is right! In regards to spending $4,000 a month on Vet bills. If that seems small, as a previous poster suggested. How many times a year does she take her dog to a Vet? I know in my case, my dog hasn't been taken to a vet for over 7 years, except for a 3 yearly vaccination. So the suggestion you need to spend more than $33 per dog on average is totally flawed and laughable. In regards to cats roaming loose. I mean come on now, did we see hundreds? No, we saw a few cats! And what better way to keep vermin away like mice and rats? This has all turned into a witch hunt, and it disgusts me. I see nothing to suggest that Lola should be charged for cruelty. That I hope will be proven in a court of law.. But RSPCA are very smart here.. First destroy the evidence, then charge her! Any other court of law, if a police officer did that, it would be thrown out of court! I would be the first to condemn Lola if I thought she was genuinely being cruel to animals. But for a lady that has dedicated her life to saving animals, and finding them homes, I applaud her. Almost 3,000 dogs have homes now because of her. RSPCA could never claim her success rate with re-homing. I am not going to get drawn into arguments about Mark Aldridge. He has his agenda for sure. However I believe he is a genuine animal lover. I think people need to take a good look at themselves before throwing such nasty stones.. I see many more people praising the work of Lola, than condemning her.. That says a lot to me. Is she perfect, as many of you seem to feel she should be? Of course not! However she has a good heart and is doing her best with the minimum amount of support she gets. I personally take my hat off to her, at least until I see evidence for myself that she is cruel and inhumane to animals..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 In regards to spending $4,000 a month on Vet bills. If that seems small, as a previous poster suggested. How many times a year does she take her dog to a Vet? I know in my case, my dog hasn't been taken to a vet for over 7 years, except for a 3 yearly vaccination. So the suggestion you need to spend more than $33 per dog on average is totally flawed and laughable. Sorry but when you are in rescue you are expected to vet check each animal that comes in. Each animal needs to be vaccinated if the state of vaccination is unknown, each animal needs to be spayed or neutered before adoption and each animal needs to be chipped and registered if they are not already chipped. These things don't come cheap. Then on top of that, animals need to be kept free of parasites and if they come in with infestations they need to be treated. Same goes for any conditions. Since these are largely unwanted/unclaimed animals from pounds you would assume they have various issues that their owners have not tended to. I cannot see how you can compare rescue dogs and cats to a privately owned pet? I realize you are a professional and many on this forum seem to hold you in high regard and are quick to recommend you, so I am a little dismayed at the way you seem to be happy to excuse every shortcoming that is brought up. It was said that conditions were made previously, so the shelter did not pass all inspections with flying colours. Lola was told to reduce her numbers as well from what I have read. I also disagree with the actions of the RSPCA in seizing dogs and not allowing another vet to view them or conduct an autopsy to prove or disprove their conditions. I also don't believe that cat flu is a good reason for euthing that kitten on arrival and I do believe that this may be standard procedure for some RSPCA shelters. However, if those dogs really did have untreated conditions and were suffering due to lack of treatment then that is in fact cruelty. It does not matter whether it was cruelty committed in the name of rescue or in the name of making money by mass producing puppies. Suffering is suffering is suffering. I agree that the RSPCA have not gone about this in the best manner but that does not mean that the complaints made should not be investigated properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdelK9 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) In regards to spending $4,000 a month on Vet bills. If that seems small, as a previous poster suggested. How many times a year does she take her dog to a Vet? I know in my case, my dog hasn't been taken to a vet for over 7 years, except for a 3 yearly vaccination. So the suggestion you need to spend more than $33 per dog on average is totally flawed and laughable. Sorry but when you are in rescue you are expected to vet check each animal that comes in. Each animal needs to be vaccinated if the state of vaccination is unknown, each animal needs to be spayed or neutered before adoption and each animal needs to be chipped and registered if they are not already chipped. These things don't come cheap. Then on top of that, animals need to be kept free of parasites and if they come in with infestations they need to be treated. Same goes for any conditions. Since these are largely unwanted/unclaimed animals from pounds you would assume they have various issues that their owners have not tended to. I cannot see how you can compare rescue dogs and cats to a privately owned pet? I realize you are a professional and many on this forum seem to hold you in high regard and are quick to recommend you, so I am a little dismayed at the way you seem to be happy to excuse every shortcoming that is brought up. It was said that conditions were made previously, so the shelter did not pass all inspections with flying colours. Lola was told to reduce her numbers as well from what I have read. I also disagree with the actions of the RSPCA in seizing dogs and not allowing another vet to view them or conduct an autopsy to prove or disprove their conditions. I also don't believe that cat flu is a good reason for euthing that kitten on arrival and I do believe that this may be standard procedure for some RSPCA shelters. However, if those dogs really did have untreated conditions and were suffering due to lack of treatment then that is in fact cruelty. It does not matter whether it was cruelty committed in the name of rescue or in the name of making money by mass producing puppies. Suffering is suffering is suffering. I agree that the RSPCA have not gone about this in the best manner but that does not mean that the complaints made should not be investigated properly. I respect your response.. However Moorook doesn't have 120 dogs going to their shelter a month. Maintaining an flea treatment and internal parasite treatment can be done very cheaply, if you know how to go about it. They may use Ivamec, I am not sure, for all internal parasites. De-fleaing only needs to done if an out break occurs. With the correct preventive measures this shouldn't be such a big issue. I am not the only professional dog trainer/behaviourist in SA that is disgusted with the way all this has been handled. As I said I believe its a witch hunt, and it is wrong. This could have all been done in a more humane and friendly way.. But RSPCA are too power hungry, and in my opinion over step the mark when it suits them.. In most cases you can't even get them out to take a sick or injured animal. And if they do, there is more than a 50% chance it will be killed anyway. Edited June 1, 2013 by AdelK9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 The woman has numerous serious cruelty charges hanging over her head, do you really think that means the rspca are ok with the place? It is far more than untidiness that has lead to the seizure of those animals. The others may have been left because they didn't appear to be in imminent need of veterinary care. Doesn't mean the place isn't a disgrace and they won't be seeking to close her down based on the court case. I'm disgusted that people think it's ok to keep dogs in any conditions as long as they are alive. The council dumped animals on Moorook because it saved them from having to deal with the problem and I hope there is also an investigation into their complicity in this. I really find your comments hard to take seriously as you admit you only have the word of a man with an agenda to go by. The many people who support Lola on FB also have never heard of the place before and just want to jump on the bandwagon. I see you still haven't given an explanation of how one old sick woman who works full time can look after 120 animals a day, is it because you'd have to admit that it is impossible to do properly. How can you be so sure the case will be thrown out, is that Mark's word again? Seeing as the rspca haven't actually made public their defence I would think a professional such as yourself would not be so quick to defend a woman who is facing court on many cruelty charges. If she is found guilty will you be back to apologise? Based on what people know from real experience of Moorook she is going to be in a lot of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I also just want to add that none of the supporters of Moorook have yet explained how one woman who works full time and three part time volunteers can find enough hours in the day to clean the kennels, feed, change the water, exercise, provide mental stimulation and work on socialisation with humans and other dogs for approximately 120 dogs in addition to caring for the cats on the property. This needs repeating because it one of the core issues at Moorook, neglect because of not enough time and resources for the number taken in. As such it really should be repeatedly ignored if you are going to defend Moorook. So would you like to explain how it is possible to do the above, seeing as you are a professional in dog behaviour? Because as a professional in animal welfare there is no way I can make it work on paper. You came here so how about you discuss the issues instead of making it personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdelK9 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I'll leave you witch hunters to do your work... People that are so quick to condemn disgust me. I believe RSPCA's charges are most probably trumped up charges... I firmly believe they have an agenda. I am not defending if FOUND guilty. I am stating she has a right to the presumption of innocence. Lola appears to have MORE supporting her than there are detractors like you here. That say's a lot to me. Good luck with your witch hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Almost 3,000 dogs have homes now because of her. You have proof of that? because the thousands have been rehomed by her has been put out there by others but no one has provided proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Really, people asking for clarification on information widely spread on a serious matter is a witch hunt? That is your professional way of dealing with questions? So the question actually might support the reason we have concerns and your response is to personally attack us. It is one of the most relevant factors in this whole case and underpins both the supporters and non supporters arguments. I have been interested in facts from the start yet no supporters are able to provide anything. Mark's posts are not fact until there is independent verification of what he says and so far there isn't any for any of his claims. Do you believe everything you read on the net? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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