Dogs Seized From No Kill Shelter

[~Anne~]

I think part of the difficulty is that dog rescue is generally considered a noble pursuit, so any criticism tends to jar a lot of people.

I like what Aphra said about setting the tone you want for your efforts/FB page/whatever. I think the best we can do is just create our own sanity, and quietly steer clear of the whackos. Unfortunately the whackos are good at sucking in Jo Public, at least initially. And a lot of stuff that doesn't play well in person - particularly the really glurgey stuff - does play better online unfortunately. So somehow we need to catch up with the downside of online behaviour, because again agreeing with Aphra, the good stuff about online is really good.

I agree with this. It has it's good and bad but FB in particular has allowed the extremes to be more easily achieved. When discussions are part of a FB page I think it's important for the page owner to maintain a distance and be at all times appropriate. I realise that trying to control the crazies and general public wouldn't be easy but the pages where the page owner doesn't behave appropriately are usually the same pages that all hell breaks out in regularly.

I wont link with most Facebook rescue pages because I find them so over the top. Someone the other day made a comment about the reactions being almost cult like with some pages and I agree. The zealous nature of the support becomes really cringeworthy to watch and it sadly creates a feeling of saint like status in the page owner. Social media certainly is changing the face of rescue.

I think DOL rescue has changed. There were many great discussions once held and lots of support at times shown to those who needed to ask questions. I still see some great threads but that level of support and discussion, which was not a high percentage overall of the threads even then, now appears to be a rare thing.

[Steve]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-05/shelter-removes-dogs-after-rscpa-inspection/4611888?&section=news

The operator of the Moorook Animal Shelter says she has been forced to move some of its animals after the RSPCA threatened to remove them.

The RSPCA removed seven animals from the shelter last month after complaints about conditions at the facility.

RSPCA inspectors were due back at the shelter later this month but returned for a random inspection yesterday.

Shelter operator Lola McLachlan says they marked the cages of four dogs and indicated they would be back to take them away.

"They just walked in and started inspecting everything and put dots on some of the animals' cages and said they were coming back to take them," she said.

"Well I've got news for them and it's not good."

She says she will not let the dogs be taken.

"There's nothing wrong with my dogs, there's no reason for them to be here let alone put stickers on cages ...it's not going to happen," she said.

"I think they would have had a lovely battle on their hands if they had of."

The RSPCA says yesterday's inspection was a routine visit to monitor the progress of the shelter.

It says its investigations are ongoing.

[HeelerLove]

Yes the Rspca returned without advising ahead of time and without a warrant. When Lola would not let them enter the premises they left and returned 10 minutes later with the police saying they'd received death threats. They then forced their way in when the gates were opened to let a truck in, marked some of the runs and then when told the media and a lawyer were on the way left very quickly. The notices issued to Moorook are not due to be relooked at until the end of this month.. when they first arrived they said they were there to take more dogs and then later that day changed their story to say they were there to check on progress and help... Well they certainly didn't help!

one of the dogs that was marked for seizure has been adopted. Apparently he was another old dog with no health issues. The other, a 7 yo shepherd mix was marked for jumping up when his run was approached. They are hoping to find him a new home before the rspca return.

They are holding a working bee this weekend and finishing off the work that is needed to comply with the orders, one of which is all kennels need to be concreted. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought it wasn't good for dogs to be on concrete a majority of the time, especially oldies or those with arthritis? I know my vet certainly suggested keeping my arthritic girl off cold, hard surfaces where possible.

[Linda K]

blame the animal righters for that and other changes to the animal keeping acts - what do you expect when you get morons who know nothing about animal husbandry being given equal if not higher weight on having input into living conditions compared to people who actually know what is best. Perhaps now you understand why breeders are upset at measures forcing them to have these sort of runs for living and rearing offspring in?

[Steve]

The lack of shock absorbency in concrete flooring affects feet first, causing the soles and heels to ache. Feet take the brunt of the hard impact, as the muscles in the feet absorb the impact to protect the legs, back and rest of the body. Muscles can become sore,and over time, bones may even weaken as a result, leading to susceptibility to fracture. They may develop lower-leg pain as the feet fail to absorb the full shock of concrete to the joints. The muscles in the calves can become sore as they endure more impact than usual from the hard concrete, and knees may begin to ache. Over time, the joints in the knees can become permanently damaged and arthritis may develop.

Hip Degeneration - Constantly walking on concrete floors is extremely hard on hip sockets. The hard landing on the concrete jars the joints in the hips, causing long-term damage such as arthritis or degeneration of the hip bone, and may necessitate hip-replacement surgery. Frequent contact with cement residue can cause skin irritation which can cause rashes or irritation on the soles of the feet.

Dogs that have been studied in a noise environment were found to have increased pulse rates, faster respiration and tenser muscles. Noise can require considerably more oxygen consumption by dogs and cause expenditure of fully 25 per cent more energy even when the dog himself is not exercising.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Steve

[Steve]

However, a point breeders have been trying to explain is that dogs which are kept in temporary accommodation with a high risk of germs and virus exposure etc - such as an animal shelter are different to dogs which are kept for the dog's life time or at least for many years.

In my opinion even though concrete isn't an ideal surface for dogs to be kept on it is probably the best option for shelter dogs - but that assumes they have soft bedding and they dont stay long before they are rehomed.

Having said that the RSPCA like to push their own policies which arent necessarily laws or even regulations. The council can say what is required for them to have a development application but unless there are specific laws in SA which make it illegal for dogs to be Kept that way the RSPCA dont get to say they have to. It may be worthwhile looking into and having some legal advice over before they go mad with concrete.

[mixeduppup]

She called them "her dogs". I'm wondering if this is a bit of a hoarding tendency. I would not wish a no kill shelter on any dog unsuitable for adoption.

[_PL_]

I thought concrete with proper drainage running away from the runs was the standard way to control disease in shelters and capture the runoff from cleaning. Yes/no?

[Steve]

I thought concrete with proper drainage running away from the runs was the standard way to control disease in shelters and capture the runoff from cleaning. Yes/no?

Yes but that doesn't mean its good for the dogs to live on for extended periods so if this mob are keeping lots of dogs for lengthy stays it will make cleaning easier and it will be easier to make it look clean.Concrete is still porous and hold viruses and bacteria fungi etc and isnt that posh on comfort for a dog having to stand on and walk on. But because they receive dogs constantly its a high risk situation and much depends on their management and protocols with health checks and quarantine etc and how keen they are to clean it properly so its best for disease control for them if they have this in place.

Its the same old question - how do you house dogs when you have more than a handful for extended periods of time for optimum health and quality of life and there isnt a hope in hell that its locked in a concrete prison block day after day. Whilst I think the RSPCA have a lot of experience with this for shelter dogs which have a quick turnaround Id like to see some research and an interest in alternatives for housing dogs which stay for more than a short period.

[tdierikx]

Sealed concrete is easier to keep disease free - and fleas don't like living on it either. Dogs in shelters certainly should not be kept in dirt floored pens that can't be kept disease and flea free.

The optimal solution is for the animals to be housed in concrete floored pens, but also let out into runs where they can get exercise, fresh air, socialisation, and sunshine for a minimum amount of time PER DAY.

Both the kennels AND the runs need to be kept effluent free... ie. cleaned up at least daily... at the bare minimum.

T.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Dogs shouldn't be living in a shelter long term so concrete wouldn't be an issue if they weren't warehousing. Concrete is essential if you are going to have lots of animals turning over. Would you put your dogs in boarding kennels if they had dirt floors?

[Steve]

Dogs shouldn't be living in a shelter long term so concrete wouldn't be an issue if they weren't warehousing. Concrete is essential if you are going to have lots of animals turning over. Would you put your dogs in boarding kennels if they had dirt floors?

Im not going to argue about the pros and cons of concrete - fact is dogs shouldn't live on concrete for extended periods of time no matter how much easier it is to clean or look clean and if they are keeping them there for longer they should have different accommodation for them.

T. If you give dogs concrete to sleep on and let them run all day on grass or dirt they wait till they get out of the concrete runs to crap and piddle anyway. If you give dogs only a few minutes of off concrete exercise the first thing they do is relieve themselves.

Jo- I wouldnt let any of my dogs stay at any boarding kennel especially for long periods and again thats designed for dogs which come and go I would like to think that no one would leave their dog for long periods anywhere that they cant get off concrete for extended periods.

All Im saying is that concrete pens shouldn't be used to house dogs for long periods - and in every situation but one I am aware of any person directed by the RSPCA to erect concreted pens has never been directed that this concrete should be sealed. No mention here either that this would have to be done. I have only ever heard of one large scale puppy farmer who used sealed concrete as a matter of choice.

But I know which boarding kennel Id prefer

Edited April 6, 2013 by Steve

[Are You Serious Jo]

Most people who board their dogs only do so for a short period of time so concrete isn't an issue. No dog should be on concrete permanently whether it's a shelter, boarding kennels or breeder kennels. But it looks like Moorook are being forced to improve things all around which is a good thing.

[Steve]

Most people who board their dogs only do so for a short period of time so concrete isn't an issue. No dog should be on concrete permanently whether it's a shelter, boarding kennels or breeder kennels. But it looks like Moorook are being forced to improve things all around which is a good thing.

Agreed.

[Sheridan]

Funnily enough, the dogs at the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah are on dirt most of the day in their pack runs and they seem none the worse for it. Best Friends also has life long residents who are none the worse for it.

[tdierikx]

Funnily enough, the dogs at the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah are on dirt most of the day in their pack runs and they seem none the worse for it. Best Friends also has life long residents who are none the worse for it.

But they aren't in Australia and have to comply with stupid Animal Lib types making up all the rules...

T.

[Sheridan]

Funnily enough, the dogs at the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah are on dirt most of the day in their pack runs and they seem none the worse for it. Best Friends also has life long residents who are none the worse for it.

But they aren't in Australia and have to comply with stupid Animal Lib types making up all the rules...

T.

True, though the whacktivists are far more active in the US. However, people have complained about the condition of the pens at Moorook and that concrete is the only way to prevent disease in a shelter.

[mita]

Funnily enough, the dogs at the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah are on dirt most of the day in their pack runs and they seem none the worse for it. Best Friends also has life long residents who are none the worse for it.

But they aren't in Australia and have to comply with stupid Animal Lib types making up all the rules...

T.

You made me curious & I looked it up. Sounds very well thought out & run. They group the dogs for best doggie socialisation. There also seems to be top veterinary care & general training. Doesn't surprise me it attracts volunteers. And the dogs look healthy, happy & confident (bit like your place, T).

http://bestfriends.org/The-Sanctuary/How-The-Sanctuary-Works/Information---Admission-Policies/

[tdierikx]

Our rescue coordinator has spent time volunteering at Best Friends in Utah mita... ever wonder where we got some of our practices from? *grin*

T.

[mita]

Our rescue coordinator has spent time volunteering at Best Friends in Utah mita... ever wonder where we got some of our practices from? *grin*

T.

Aaaaaaaaaah! It falls into place. Those BF people know what they're doing ... & so do you folk.