Freedom No Pull Dog Harness From Clean Run Free Shipping

[chuckandsteve]

Mine still pull with the sensible harness on (I can walk one nicely but not 3) but they cannot pull anywhere near as hard.

I also have a reactive dog and if he lunges in the harness it tends to flip him around to face me and gives him a shock. He would just struggle himself in a correction collar. (Staffy) My obediance club wants me to put him on the correction collar but so many people use them poorly there I wont do it.

While it needs to be used with training, its a nice tool that is hard to use wrongly on the dog.

Off to purchase one for the dog whos sensible harness rubs

[Salukifan]

Every tool has its uses (or nearly every one). I'm not a fan of haltis or harnesses but I can see they have their uses.

But tools are not substitutes for training. When a dog pulls, half the issue is at the other end of the lead. Change the method of harnessing the dog and don't modify the handler response and most dogs will learn to pull on anything. I watch dogs on all kinds of harnesses pull their owners past my house every week.

So sure, try a harness but get some training on how to use it. Otherwise, you're right back where you started a fair bit of the time but out of pocket.

There is no gadget that will reliably stop a dog pulling without the owner modifying THEIR behaviour. End of story.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[megan_]

A prong collar is a tool too :)

[Salukifan]

A prong collar is a tool too :)

Yep. They have their uses but they are not for your average Jo to use without knowledgeable instruction IMO.

[megan_]

My comment was directed at nek. I often read "harnesses are tools and not training" and the next sentence is "get a prong collar and train the dog". They are all tools and regardless of which one you use you need to train the dog. That said, at least some dogs are getting out and about using harnesses, rather than not being walked becaue it is all too hard.

[Salukifan]

My comment was directed at nek. I often read "harnesses are tools and not training" and the next sentence is "get a prong collar and train the dog". They are all tools and regardless of which one you use you need to train the dog. That said, at least some dogs are getting out and about using harnesses, rather than not being walked becaue it is all too hard.

The way some dogs walk on harnesses, I worry about their soundness. Hauling your owner along on two hind feet is hardly ideal. Ditto dogs being walked on harnesses that restrict their front movement. *shudders*

[Staffyluv]

I think they work for some dogs and not others.

I have tried just about every harness on the market and NONE of them work with Ziggy.

He might be a bit unsure the first day or so but after that he goes right back to pulling like a steam train (if I give him free walking) - there is simply no such thing as loose leash with him..

That's because these so called gentle harnesses rely on applying some discomfort to the dog to supposedly stop them pulling. Now the premise is that people don't want to use those horrible, nasty tools like correction chains and prong collars so these wonderful, magical 'gentle' aids do the trick!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEP ... wrong.

You (and most other people on the planet) have a breed with a reasonable to high pain threshold and hence the harness will do absolutely nothing except help him pull you about in no time, unless you intend on muscling your dog to get him in place like you do with the front attach harnesses. And unless you can hold the animals focus THE WHOLE WALK be prepared to be yanked and pulled because there is NO consequence to the action. It's why I see people constantly buying new harnesses and equipment, one fails apparently you go buy another sorry but they pretty much fall into same sh*t different smell category with me no matter the brand.

Our problem is we see the leash as an attachment NOT a TOOL that it is hence why all this stuff is on the market. How you use the leash is just as important as the collar you use and both handler and dog need to learn that. It's why leashes now look like waterskiing equipment, we think of it as something to just hang on to and hope we don't get hurt. Teach your dog to respect the lead length and signals from it, owners learn how to use it properly to train your dog and you don't need a million dollars worth of equipment that stops working after a while.

They're overpriced gimmicks, every one of them. Get a prong for your staffy, learn how to use it and train him not to pull. The money you've probably spent on harnesses could have bought you a corrective collar and a couple of lessons with a decent trainer and fixed the problem.

I will be honest and say, I would be scared to use a prong collar. I am probably a bit soft when it comes to it and need to be firmer with him.

He would be red raw under his front legs from the lupi harness (it is like the sporn one but without the fleece protectors) after a walk.

There is probably a good chance that I didn't use the harnesses correctly?? I thought I did but what do I know?

We keep going to training and he is walked every day to practice what we learn but he will still pull given even a few extra inches of leash.

We use a martingale and this has been by far the most effective collar (tool) we have used.

I now have a decent case of tennis elbow and a really sore shoulder thanks to the last year and a half of this dog and his 'training' but I haven't given up and I won't..

I have never had a dog that was 'difficult' before - it certainly is a learning curve.

I have quite a collection of harnesses - I might put them up for sale :)

[sheena]

A flat collar is just a tool too & can cause all sorts of damage to a dogs throat as it pulls or lunges on it. Not to mention the shoulders of the handler So for those who don't want to use "a Tool", then throw away the leash & flat collar & use nothing on your dog. I have had great success with the front attached harness & my dogs now can be walked in a flat collar quite nicely, but I have to put my young guy into his harness if we are walking along the road, for example, because he is very clever & quick at slipping his collar, even his limited slip collar.

[Nekhbet]

I will be honest and say, I would be scared to use a prong collar. I am probably a bit soft when it comes to it and need to be firmer with him.

He would be red raw under his front legs from the lupi harness (it is like the sporn one but without the fleece protectors) after a walk.

There is probably a good chance that I didn't use the harnesses correctly?? I thought I did but what do I know?

That is a common problem, the harnesses create some discomfort for the dog but a strong dog ignores them. They're applying no consequence to the behavior so they do not work as the 'tool' you want them to be. The tool still has to suit the dog. If the dog is being rubbed raw then a harness is a useless piece of equipment for that dog.

You are in NSW and you are allowed to use a prong, everyone is allowed to use a correction chain but I think prongs are nicer on the neck and for people with bad timing. You're not meant to yank the dog around it's simply showing the dog in an extremely effective manner that pulling is not allowed and if you pull there is a consequence, stick with your owner and you get a reward. You still need to train but it affords you control for more powerful or pain tolerant breeds that you still have to muscle on a harness.

As for levering dogs around with head halters and harnesses, that still putting pressure on their necks and backs if they're walking sideways. I suppose if you dont hear a yelp or see blatant pain signals it must be OK.

[Salukifan]

A flat collar is just a tool too & can cause all sorts of damage to a dogs throat as it pulls or lunges on it. Not to mention the shoulders of the handler So for those who don't want to use "a Tool", then throw away the leash & flat collar & use nothing on your dog. I have had great success with the front attached harness & my dogs now can be walked in a flat collar quite nicely, but I have to put my young guy into his harness if we are walking along the road, for example, because he is very clever & quick at slipping his collar, even his limited slip collar.

Who said anything about not using tools?

[Aidan3]

As for levering dogs around with head halters and harnesses, that still putting pressure on their necks and backs if they're walking sideways. I suppose if you dont hear a yelp or see blatant pain signals it must be OK.

Why would that be OK? You don't allow them to walk that way in the first place, which is possible because you have the leverage advantage.

[corvus]

FWIW, the service dog organisation I've been working with have made it a blanket rule that every dog is walked in a front attach harness pretty much everywhere they go (except greyhounds) unless they are in a training session. And even then they are usually wearing them at least. This has been brought in recently because they get 12-18 month old dogs in who have been raised by volunteers and most of them pull to some extent. Some of them pull to a very large extent. I quite like the front attach harnesses. They are more effective as a signal to the dog that they are pulling than a martingale. The dogs are being trained at the same time, obviously, but the harnesses are there for backup. Many are strong dogs and if they get into pulling mode they can drag you a few steps on a martingale before you can dig in and stop. It's easier to stop them on the front attach harnesses. They don't cure the problem, but are treated as a training aid and in that role work pretty well. No sideways walking dogs.

[Salukifan]

FWIW, the service dog organisation I've been working with have made it a blanket rule that every dog is walked in a front attach harness pretty much everywhere they go (except greyhounds) unless they are in a training session. And even then they are usually wearing them at least. This has been brought in recently because they get 12-18 month old dogs in who have been raised by volunteers and most of them pull to some extent. Some of them pull to a very large extent. I quite like the front attach harnesses. They are more effective as a signal to the dog that they are pulling than a martingale. The dogs are being trained at the same time, obviously, but the harnesses are there for backup. Many are strong dogs and if they get into pulling mode they can drag you a few steps on a martingale before you can dig in and stop. It's easier to stop them on the front attach harnesses. They don't cure the problem, but are treated as a training aid and in that role work pretty well. No sideways walking dogs.

Do these harnesses cross the dog's chest/shoulders or are they Y harnesses? If they are the former, they will be inhibiting natural movement in the front legs and muscle issues may occur. This is one of the reasons Guide Dogs are supposedly looking at redesign of their traditional harness and their dogs do not wear those harnesses 24/7.

A canine massage therapist friend of mine was asked to work on a dog that had been kept 24/7 and exercised in front crossing flyball harness. She described the level of muscle atrophy in the dog's front end as "disastrous".

And before you call for some scientific basis for that assertion, I'll add Dr Christine Zink's views on the issue. For many dog sports people, Dr Zink is THE authority on physiology. I'm sure there would be work by her in the journals. I know she conducted research that showed poorly constructed harnesses caused significant changes in canine gait.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Nekhbet]

Why would that be OK? You don't allow them to walk that way in the first place, which is possible because you have the leverage advantage.

Considering they're an off the shelf product, I see it a lot. Or they don't work at all and the owner is still dragged.

It's just they're so gentle and nice, how could they cause ANY harm at all!

This has been brought in recently because they get 12-18 month old dogs in who have been raised by volunteers and most of them pull to some extent

This is what I don't understand about giving out dogs you are going to invest a lot of time and money into - you give them to mostly untrained people for the most impressionable time of their lives. We lived perfectly well without harnesses for hundreds of years, it's about effort. If you get a dog back at 12 months that pulls I would be reeducating the volunteer or find someone else if they refuse to listen. You then look into how many potentially good dogs are slipping through the cracks because the right work has not been done. Raising a working pup is more then just feeding and walking it around.

[Aidan3]

They are loose across the front, and because the dog is not pulling, there should not be any issues of the sort Dr Zink has concerns about.

[Aidan3]

Why would that be OK? You don't allow them to walk that way in the first place, which is possible because you have the leverage advantage.

Considering they're an off the shelf product, I see it a lot. Or they don't work at all and the owner is still dragged.

It's just they're so gentle and nice, how could they cause ANY harm at all!

Has any evidence of harm come to light? I'm not aware of any.

[sheena]

They are loose across the front, and because the dog is not pulling, there should not be any issues of the sort Dr Zink has concerns about.

And may I add, you don't run the dog in them, as you would in a fly ball harness. You take the harness off if the dog is running or doing agility etc. That is just common sense.

[Salukifan]

They are loose across the front, and because the dog is not pulling, there should not be any issues of the sort Dr Zink has concerns about.

And may I add, you don't run the dog in them, as you would in a fly ball harness. You take the harness off if the dog is running or doing agility etc. That is just common sense.

And that, sadly is not a universal attribute. My limited observation has told me that the overwhelming majority of dogs taken to offlead areas in harnesses to run will keep them on when off lead.

The most commonly available flyball harness that I've seen in this country couldn't have a worse design for canine movement. And the dogs have to jump in them.

ETA: Although I see the company now has a Y front one available now :)

Edited March 7, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Cosmolo]

Here's what i don't understand. When it is suggested that correction chains or prongs can be problematic when not used correctly those that use them say more training/ education is required, ie- it's not the fault of the tool. Why then when discussing harnesses etc does this suddenly not seem to apply?

[Salukifan]

Here's what i don't understand. When it is suggested that correction chains or prongs can be problematic when not used correctly those that use them say more training/ education is required, ie- it's not the fault of the tool. Why then when discussing harnesses etc does this suddenly not seem to apply?

Because the general or accepted percertion is that harnesses are benign?? Same thing was thought about head harnesses for a long time.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Haredown Whippets