Vibrating Collar Or E-collar For Deaf Dog

[superminty]

Hi all,

I've searched old topics but didn't find quite what I was looking for.

I am helping a friend with training their deaf dog and have been asked to research vibrating collars. I found that people seem to recommend e-collars used on low stim over vibration only collars as they tend to less aversive. The collar will be an attention getter, the dog already has basic hand signals established.

Has anyone had any expereience using either type of collar with a deaf dog? And if so, what brand did you use?

I don't think I'll have a problem selling an e-collar to the owners, and they don't attend Dogs Vic affiliated clubs but I do want to get the right product, given the cost of these things.

Thanks.

Edited March 5, 2013 by superminty

[Rosetta]

An E-collar on a deaf dog Sorry don't know the background but that sounds awful

[superminty]

An E-collar on a deaf dog Sorry don't know the background but that sounds awful

Really? Why? I suppose you haven't used low stim e-collars before then.

Also can't see why the fact that the dog is deaf would have any bearing on the decision to use an e-collar.

[Red Fox]

An E-collar on a deaf dog Sorry don't know the background but that sounds awful

Have you ever used an e-collar before? Used properly I can't see how it's 'awful' at all.

OP, most e-collars have a pager (vibrating) function on them as well as the momentary and continuous stim.

[Lollipup]

My e-collar has 127 levels of stim (it's dogtra, they are a good brand as are sportdog). It also has a vibration/pager function. Most people I know can't feel the stim until it gets to about level 10 and it's very faint. I wouldn't have a problem with using one on a deaf dog (or any dog).

Rosetta, the stims are so low - you really need to feel it before you judge it. Think of it as a communication tool. Like tapping someone on the shoulder to get their attention.

[Rosetta]

Well as they are banned in several States - including SA, ACT and NSW - I can only presume that law is there for a reason whether you agree with it or not. Perhaps because of the potential for mis-use? I also presume that your "clients" are in Victoria and have a vet's authority for the use of one on this deaf dog?

Thanks for the info Lollipup - I wonder how many people have actually tried the collars on themselves?

[korbin13]

Well as they are banned in several States - including SA, ACT and NSW - I can only presume that law is there for a reason whether you agree with it or not. Perhaps because of the potential for mis-use? I also presume that your "clients" are in Victoria and have a vet's authority for the use of one on this deaf dog?

Thanks for the info Lollipup - I wonder how many people have actually tried the collars on themselves?

Not to be rude but the OP didn't ask for your opinion on the collar, she asked for people's experience with an ecollar and a deaf dog.

[Rosetta]

Well as they are banned in several States - including SA, ACT and NSW - I can only presume that law is there for a reason whether you agree with it or not. Perhaps because of the potential for mis-use? I also presume that your "clients" are in Victoria and have a vet's authority for the use of one on this deaf dog?

Thanks for the info Lollipup - I wonder how many people have actually tried the collars on themselves?

Not to be rude but the OP didn't ask for your opinion on the collar, she asked for people's experience with an ecollar and a deaf dog.

Its not my "opinion" - its the law. This would be a pretty strange forum if opinion was banned anyway. Stepping away now - I have seen how people are flamed for saying anything negative about e-collars.

[rubyroo]

Well as they are banned in several States - including SA, ACT and NSW - I can only presume that law is there for a reason whether you agree with it or not. Perhaps because of the potential for mis-use? I also presume that your "clients" are in Victoria and have a vet's authority for the use of one on this deaf dog?

Thanks for the info Lollipup - I wonder how many people have actually tried the collars on themselves?

Not to be rude but the OP didn't ask for your opinion on the collar, she asked for people's experience with an ecollar and a deaf dog.

Its not my "opinion" - its the law. This would be a pretty strange forum if opinion was banned anyway. Stepping away now - I have seen how people are flamed for saying anything negative about e-collars.

Seriously! You should do some research into them before you comment on something you clearly no nothing about.

[m-j]

I have never used an ecollar on stim for attention getting with a deaf dog only the vibration the first one was a home made job which worked ok for a large dog, but that was only used when they where doing the training with me, they then got one off the internet as the range wasn't great on the homemade one. The next time I had a small dog come to me so we used a Dogtra IQ on vibration, as it is the lightest I could find.

I'm in NSW so I contacted the DPI and the person at that I was talking to about the legalities told me that I should cover the prongs and the stim buttons when using it, which we did.

[Rosetta]

Well as they are banned in several States - including SA, ACT and NSW - I can only presume that law is there for a reason whether you agree with it or not. Perhaps because of the potential for mis-use? I also presume that your "clients" are in Victoria and have a vet's authority for the use of one on this deaf dog?

Thanks for the info Lollipup - I wonder how many people have actually tried the collars on themselves?

Not to be rude but the OP didn't ask for your opinion on the collar, she asked for people's experience with an ecollar and a deaf dog.

Its not my "opinion" - its the law. This would be a pretty strange forum if opinion was banned anyway. Stepping away now - I have seen how people are flamed for saying anything negative about e-collars.

Seriously! You should do some research into them before you comment on something you clearly no nothing about.

Excuse me? Are you saying that they are not banned in certain States? If you are a trainer then you are showing your ignorance - better let the RSPCA know how wrong they are then.

http://kb.rspca.org.au/Is-the-use-of-electronic-dog-collars-legal_279.html

Edited March 7, 2013 by Rosetta

[korbin13]

Well as they are banned in several States - including SA, ACT and NSW - I can only presume that law is there for a reason whether you agree with it or not. Perhaps because of the potential for mis-use? I also presume that your "clients" are in Victoria and have a vet's authority for the use of one on this deaf dog?

Thanks for the info Lollipup - I wonder how many people have actually tried the collars on themselves?

Not to be rude but the OP didn't ask for your opinion on the collar, she asked for people's experience with an ecollar and a deaf dog.

Its not my "opinion" - its the law. This would be a pretty strange forum if opinion was banned anyway. Stepping away now - I have seen how people are flamed for saying anything negative about e-collars.

Seriously! You should do some research into them before you comment on something you clearly no nothing about.

Excuse me? Are you saying that they are not banned in certain States? If you are a trainer then you are showing your ignorance - better let the RSPCA know how wrong they are then.

http://kb.rspca.org.au/Is-the-use-of-electronic-dog-collars-legal_279.html

Can you please stop taking this thread off topic? If you want a discussion on whether it is illegal to use e collars, start a new topic. I personally was interested in some of the responses that this thread might get but you have totally taken it off course.

For a person that is a stickler for rules, maybe you should read the forum rule 12 which you agreed to when you joined.

[FalconRange]

Some of the laws preventing use (but not ownership) of the collars are over 20 years old. Technology and society's norms, focus and needs develop much quicker than laws do, and certainly technology, in the e collars and otherwise, is much more advanced, safer and more precise than it was that long ago.

I'd probably shoot off an email to a few behaviourists and trainers to see what they'd recommend in the case of training the deaf dog, and if they recommend and are familiar with e collars, they'll probably have some recommendations on brands as well.

Ones with a large number of settings as well as a vibration function would probably suit best if recommended, but like you seem to have found, the lower levels of stimulation are often reported to be less surprising to the dog than the vibration.

[sas]

The vibrate can scare the crap of of some dogs. We recently sent a collar to someone with a deaf dane and it did exactly that. The low level stims would have been far less worrysome.

Those who aren't familar with c-ollar training won't really understand how stim is better than vibrate in some cases. Most of the low level stims I can't even feel myself. E-collars aren't for shocking the hell out of the dog - they can be used in quite positive ways.

[julesluvscavs]

Personally I would never use one of my deaf dog. She responds well to our hand signals :)

[megan_]

How do you get attention first (say she was young and running off leash)

[Weasels]

I don't see that the collar would need to be aversive though in this instance with some prior conditioning? If the vibrate/low stim is taught to cue a specific behaviour ("look"/"watch" I'd imagine) and is paired with a positive experience (reward for the behaviour), it would be just like teaching a dog to recall using your baddest, most panicky voice which some people do to increase reliability (?) Or like conditioning a dog to wear a halti or muzzle (which clearly a lot of dogs find naturally unpleasant given the number of dogs I see at training each week pawing madly at their noses).

Edited March 7, 2013 by TheLBD

[sas]

Personally I would never use one of my deaf dog. She responds well to our hand signals :)

For off lead work or when the dog is not in eye sight. There are plenty of positive reasons to use 'tools'.

[julesluvscavs]

I guess in our situation its different as she is old now and we never take her off leash anyway.. Shes very into hand signals and eye contact even when she was younger before she went deaf.. I rarely took her off leash and I never trialed her like my past dogs.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Jules❤3Cavs

[OSoSwift]

Does she have aquired deafness or been deaf since birth? There is a big difference between the two.

A friend has a deaf dog, she manages well with an older dog who she takes cues from and hand signals/facial expressions. She has her CCD, AD and JD and recently got a pass with a reasonable distance challenge in JDO.

It hasn't been easy and quite often it takes a few minds nutting things out to get it to work. They have considered getting a vibration collar for times such as when she is off lead at the beach. At this point she is coping well and checks in often so they do not see a need for it as yet.

If I was training a congentially deaf dog I would definitely try the vibration collar as a marker but not a cue - once the dog is used to it and has been conditioned that it means good stuff of course. I have no experience using a stim collar so can't comment on that one

Edited March 7, 2013 by OSoSwift