Info On Prey Drive

[Nic.B]

I am doing some research into Prey Drive, esspecially with small animals.

Some Greyhounds at HP were good with little dogs though did show interest in the cats (different levels of interest). Many were great with cats :)

There were many breeds/crosses who showed interest in cats.

I know a bit about prey drive though am no expert! Overheard a comment the other day stating that a dog (who had picked up a cat) and injured them (not a mark on the cat) was vicious and could do the same to a person, other dogs etc.

The comments shocked me. I don't agree, though I only have a pretty basic understanding of prey drive.

Any great links etc would be appreciated along with your views.

Thank you in advance :)

[mantis]

Kenny killed two cats unfortunately. The first one I heard him howling around 2am, I went out the back & there he was nudging this poor dead cat with his nose & touching it with his paw. He obviously just thought it was a nice fluffy toy to play with & was trying to get it to move again, so he could play. The cat didn't have a mark on it, but it's neck was broken, obviously from shaking.

The second I found when I got home from work, so I don't know how long he'd been playing with that one, no bite marks again. I'm not sure that is prey drive, or just finding something to play with.

Edited February 28, 2013 by mantis

[juice]

I can only give you my experience with my dogs.

My dally will chase a cat or rabbit that runs out in front of him, when i had my Wei aswell they were more determined and would chase for longer , the Wei caught a cat once, and they both when younger caught many bunnies.

Now after my dally has lost the chase he will backtrack and spend age's retraceing the scent.

None of them chase swf, and are actually rock solid with other dogs.

My cattle has had bunnies flushed out in front of him and done nothing.

I trust my dogs 100% with other dogs and people , i don't believe its related at all.

[Diva]

My personal experience is that the expression of prey drive can be very discriminating. I know other people don't find it so, but I have always Borzoi and have never had a problem with mine relating to other dogs, even small fluffy dogs, as prey. Once they knew it was a dog they related to it as a dog, some might be too rough in play for littlies but they know they aren't for hunting. For other species my general rule of thumb is that I need to teach them as puppies about any prey animal I don't want them to chase as adults, and if they see a potential prey animal for the first time as an adult and it runs - I have to be ready to interrupt their response as they may well give chase and maybe catch, although the chase seems to be the part they want more than the catching.

Interestingly those of mine who most wanted to chase weren't necessarily those who were most likely to catch, my most prey driven would wait until they had a real chance of catching before making the effort to run at all. High prey drive didn't make them any less safe with people either. There was no transference at all.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Diva

[The Spotted Devil]

And it can be very specific....both my dogs adore our 3 cats - they wrestle, chase, play and snuggle with Dizzy, love to annoy Brontë but ALWAYS defer to Lilly. Even with food. An unfamiliar cat is a different story - it's just pure instinct and chase! Em will seek out and deliver to hand (if possible) any rabbit or bird. Both dogs are excellent with puppies and it doesn't take long for a new pup in the house to learn not to mess with the cats! Lilly just has a "look" that burns right through them :)

[BlackJaq]

My Wei obviously has a very strong prey drive and seems to classify some small noisy puppies as "prey". I have not had any issues with adult dogs, even small ones, it might be the noises and clumsy way of moving and only applies to very small puppies. Large breed puppies are clearly dogs to her. She grew up with a cat and has not to date caught any cats that weren't "her cat" so I am unsure but I suspect she would attempt to retrieve them and possibly kill them if they resisted. I keep a very close eye on her and she is not allowed to chase anything as we are trying to get into real hunting so sight chases would be bad for tracking work.

She has not caught any rabbits or other small critters except my (tame and docile) rooster. She caught him twice and plucked him a bit but he was fine both times and I still have him. She has lived alongside him and my other birds for a long time now and has excellent self control with anything except very young birds with baby voices.

She doesn't like children but it does not appear to be prey related to me, they are too noisy and do not respect her space and so she has no time for them.

I think prey drive and aggression are two separate issues and human aggression is a whole different ball game again. I think my dog can control her prey drive perfectly fine as long as she feels that I am watching and in control. If given the ok she is very determined to get to whatever she was ok'ed to get. After a successful chase (followed by a retrieve or whatever) she does not show any signs of aggression, redirected or otherwise. She has accidentally caught and throttled a wallaby before, which was hidden in the bushes right next to our front gate. After it was dead she was the same dog as before, no issue with the cat and the birds and very relaxed. It was just prey drive and "her job" to her. Obviously I did not mean for her to go and grab the local wildlife and throttle it but there was no way I could have known it was there and there was no chase, she just jumped straight on it and it was dead about a minute later without a struggle that I could see. Wallaby, cat, rabbit or whatever the prey, I don't see how this could translate into human aggression unless the dog saw humans as prey, which seems unlikely

Edited February 28, 2013 by BlackJaq

[Nic.B]

Thank you :)

My limited experience shows a complete difference between chasing a cat or bunny and aggression issues.

I have a dog who will chase and has killed rabbits in our paddock though she is perfect with my children and with visitors.

Is there proof or evidence that a dog who picks up a wild bunny in drive will also attack a child?

[BlackJaq]

I guess it depends whether the dog is being territorial or prey driven. A strongly territorial dog may attack a child in the course of "defending" his territory and may also attack a rabbit, cat or any other animal who enters his territory. This is separate from prey drive though. I have never personally met a dog who considered children prey but have heard of such things, generally breeds such as Huskies or Malamutes are mentioned in these instances, I am not sure why and have no documentation to verify or deny those stories.

ETA: It goes without saying that particularly prey driven dogs should not be left unattended with babies and toddlers especially and should be very closely supervised at all times. Infants of all species can, in my opinion, incite some prey drive due to wierd noises, clumsy movements and generally being really different from adults or even older children of the same species. Young dogs and puppies may also find it more difficult to differentiate between what is acceptable prey and what is not and should be watched very closely.

Edited February 28, 2013 by BlackJaq

[huski]

Dogs that have a high prey drive and aren't given an appropriate outlet to satisfy that drive are going to look for others ways to get drive satisfaction and we might not like those options. As someone else mentioned prey drive isn't the same as aggression, a dog that bites another animal out of prey drive doesn't equate to a dog that would bite a person.

Dogs with a high prey drive (assuming as well they have a solid temperament, good structure etc) are highly desirable for many working and sport homes, when you know how to use their drive to your advantage it gives you an amazing working dog. The same dog in a home that isn't equipped with the desire or knowledge of how to train and live with a dog like that could be a complete disaster. My working line Mal has a super high prey drive, but she also has to learn to control it and when to switch on and off. I do a lot of social training with her so that she knows if we are going for a casual walk or chilling at the shops or in an environment where I want her to be relaxed, she won't look for or expect a prey reward (she can very easily be triggered in to prey drive so has to learn to control this - bikes, trolleys, scooters, kids playing ball etc any kind of movement would easily trigger her if she didn't have 'rules' in place to teach her how to behave).

This article might give you a bit more info on prey drive :)

http://k9pro.com.au/services/understanding-drives/

Edited February 28, 2013 by huski

[corvus]

I've been reading Affective Neuroscience lately (again) and just yesterday read the discussion about the neural substrate for predatory behaviour compared to that of aggression. It was quite a fascinating read and talked about the differences between so-called predatory aggression, rage, and dominance aggression. It's nicely summarised and made a bit easier to read here: http://mybrainnotes.com/brain-rage-violence.html It's mostly about rats and cats and people, but half the point of affective neuroscience is that it's applicable to all mammals as far as anyone knows. Anyway, the first time I read about this stuff I was left thinking maybe there was no such thing as prey drive. I guess from a neurological point of view there probably isn't. But from a behavioural point of view it pays to know the stimuli that push the magic button.

I think an important consideration is what the dog was socialised to in early life. One doesn't generally prey upon other social objects. It also seems there is a genetic imprinting component. Like dogs bred to hunt large animals are more likely to be switched on by large animals whereas dogs bred to hunt small animals are switched on by small animals and not so much larger animals. I think there's a study on social facilitation of predatory behaviour that talks about this. Which I guess is actually another factor that should be taken into consideration.

Of course, there can be aberrations, like in all things.

[Greytmate]

The type of movement and behaviour that the predated animal displays can incite a predatory reaction more than size and shape can alone.

Prey drive is a sequence of events going through scenting, staring, pointing, stalking, chasing, grabbing, killing and eating. We utilise different stages of this sequence in different breeds. For instance, a herding breed will scent, stare, stalk, chase but will not grab the sheep. A terrier will progress through the sequence to kill a rodent. A gun dog will point and stalk and gently retrieve a bird. A scent hound will vocalise after the first stage of the sequence. A wolf will complete the sequence and eat the prey.

This shows that predatory behaviour isn't just about intensity, but about different intensity at different stages, depending on genetics.

If you do a search here on 'predatory', you will find a few interesting threads on this topic.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Greytmate

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I have a lot of terrier experience and find that they are usually very prey driven, especially the Jack Russells and they are very determined. Have a look at a Jack Russell doing what it was bred for - ratting - it is phenomenal - there is probably a video on You tube! My Jack would be the same with a cat.

My terriers always disembowel any blue tongues that venture into the yard which is horrifying but they cannot tell the difference between a snake and a lizard.

[Podengo]

My jack Russell x border Collie will chase and kill mice, rats, birds, cats, bunnies if given the chance, but she is brilliant with our pet bunny and cat, very quickly made friends with our friends cat when we stayed with them for 2 weeks and she is very gentle with small dogs (despite being extremely rough with big dogs).

[espinay2]

Not sure exactly what info you are after but the coppingers in their book 'Dogs' have an interesting discussion of the prey drive continuum as it relates to the development of different breeds. This is eye/stalk/chase/catch/hold-bite/kill-bite/dissect (off the top of my head). Some breeds are bred to have a truncated prey drive (for eg livestock guardians which should show basically none, or herding dogs which should emphasize the eye/stalk/chase part. Individuals though of course may vary. They go into some detail about the importance of early learning on how these may be displayed too.

[Nic.B]

Thanks so much guys :) I find this really interesting!

I am familiar with different drives, though it is great to identify them. I have learnt mostly (hands on) temp testing an endless number of dogs at my local pound. The dogs taught me an enormous amount, Very good teachers :laugh:

I have three dogs. Bella my Kelpie is brilliant at hearding, I love watching her herd our chooks and ducks each evening (I am with her) she has never, ever attempted to touch the chooks. She also loves watching the horses, Bella is brilliant with horses. Both Bellas parents were in work, we were blessed to find such a good breeder.

Billy my Fox Terrier is fantastic at catching rats and mice, he will find a nest and not stop until he has every one of them. Fern my Bull Arab has great prey drive, she has caught rabbits, I would not ever trust her with cats though she is fantastic with dogs of all sizes. All three have fantastic temperaments and are brilliant with people and children.

Thank you very much for the links, GM Thank you I will do a search and some reading :)