Westminster Show - Usa

[Trisven13]

You can clearly see a heavily clipped area on the neck of that greyhound, more than just a neatening of the natural coat lay. That might be contributing to a look we are not so used to.

While I agree this is an awful photo of a very nice bitch I fail to see any clipping. My bitch has that line of hair down her neck and believe me she is not clipped or stripped to make it.

I think that a lot of the "strangeness" that people are seeing in the greyhound is simply the difference between show & race lines. I didn't think she looked odd in the picture???

it's not a pic I would put up with pride

No of course not BUT IMO you could see that it was the angle of the picture that was the problem NOT the dog if that makes sense?

[Rebanne]

You can clearly see a heavily clipped area on the neck of that greyhound, more than just a neatening of the natural coat lay. That might be contributing to a look we are not so used to.

While I agree this is an awful photo of a very nice bitch I fail to see any clipping. My bitch has that line of hair down her neck and believe me she is not clipped or stripped to make it.

I think that a lot of the "strangeness" that people are seeing in the greyhound is simply the difference between show & race lines. I didn't think she looked odd in the picture???

it's not a pic I would put up with pride

No of course not BUT IMO you could see that it was the angle of the picture that was the problem NOT the dog if that makes sense?

yes I could, but if you are not familiar you would just think strange looking dog :D

[ish]

Overangulation is NOT desirable in the GSD and neither is hocks sitting on the ground when the dog stands. The 3 point stand is the natural stance of the GSD and that is why dogs are stacked like that in the show ring.

Here is the dog considered the best in Germany 2 years in a row for comparison

and again (younger photo)

[Trisven13]

yes I could, but if you are not familiar you would just think strange looking dog :D

I suppose I need to take into account that I have spent a bit of time with greyhounds to be able to see it. :laugh:

[melzawelza]

Where is the American Staffordshire Terrier? I seem to recall reading something about a big show being held in a BSL state. Is that why there is no Amstaff here? If so - how disrespectful to hold the show there and essentially barr the AST and support BSL.

New York doesn't have BSL, just one of the many breeds that did not make it on that particular site, nothing more, nothing less.

here was the BOB Am staff winner

Thanks for that! I definitely read something some time ago about a big show being held in a BSL state so when I saw no Amstaff there I thought this must have been it. Thanks for the photo! Dog is nice but fat IMO. I was shocked at how fat a lot of dogs were in the original link (Labrador OMG!)

[WreckitWhippet]

Most of these photos are very average ,the Irish looks awful in its photo compared to what it does in the ring .

These aren't true to stacked photos & many look like there slipping on the flooring

I thought alot of the dogs looked unsure, tails between their legs.

I liked the bullys, nice and even looking, i didn't know they had different class's for coloured ones, seems a bit odd.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I was so pleased to see these posts because I was quite shocked and was hoping I wasn't the only one. I thought some of the photographs were simply awful and in some the dogs looked almost deformed !!

When I saw the Whippet, my immediate thought was that Kirislin's dogs would beat that one hands down.

Same for some of the other breeds I've seen represented on DOL.

Juice, I thought the while Bully looked "not so good", but really liked Yum Yum the coloured one - LOL.

The photo of the GSD made me just feel sad.

ETA: I watched a video of Best In Show a couple of days ago - LOL.

That's a big call to make.

He's a very promising 14 month old and nicely bred to boot, he's got a lot to offer the breed.

I'd like to hear what you think he lacks according to the standard

[Roova]

Overangulation is NOT desirable in the GSD and neither is hocks sitting on the ground when the dog stands. The 3 point stand is the natural stance of the GSD and that is why dogs are stacked like that in the show ring.

Here is the dog considered the best in Germany 2 years in a row for comparison

and again (younger photo)

I must admit I was a bit shocked by the photos of the GSD too. It doesn't seem to stand over its front legs properly and resting on the back leg pasterns looks painful for the dog. It might be a bad photo but either way it was standing like that. I started looking at photos on the web (maybe not a good idea) but came across this one which is a GSDCA National Gold Medal dog in Oz. It's also the sire of a number of winning dogs. If overangulation is not desireable, how can they be winning looking like this? It doesn't look like its moving easily at all.

The standard calls for "The topline flows from the set on of the neck, over the high long withers and over the straight back to the slightly sloping croup without a noticeable break" These winning dogs seem to have a roach back, not straight? Sorry for my ignorance if I've misunderstood the standard.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Roova

[Loving my Oldies]

That's a big call to make.

LOL and I am happy to make it ..... on looks alone. I have never shown, never likely, and am happy to know that a dog is happy and healthy.

That GSD is plain sad. Look at the difference between the younger and older photographs in terms of the back legs. Elbow is heading to the ground.

[BlackJaq]

Wow that German GSD made me sad. No wonder people are starting to look to the Malinios for police work and such, how can a dog like that be expected to work day in day out. They look a little strange to me when in motion as well, a bit like they are continuously trying to sweep the floor behind them with their tail...

Edited February 26, 2013 by BlackJaq

[Bjelkier]

The Americans tend to clip even the short/smooth haired dogs to the extreme. It really accentuates & sculpts the look of the dogs. Personally I hate it, but....

You can clearly see a heavily clipped area on the neck of that greyhound, more than just a neatening of the natural coat lay. That might be contributing to a look we are not so used to. Those Beagles look like they have had a bucket of hair stripped, thinned & trimmed off their neck, throat & tail etc. Really....

Ain't that the truth, just look at the Samoyed! Wow, talk about sculpted.

I think most of those dogs are quite lovely but the photographer clearly had no clue what they were doing. If one of those was my dog and a photo like that was put up I'd be furious.

[Sabbath]

I was shocked at how fat a lot of dogs were in the original link (Labrador OMG!)

Yes I thought the Lab looked well overweight.

[Polecatty]

Can't say I'm impressed by the grey...fat, undermuscled and that flat front foot...oh man. Maybe it's just the picture.

The whippy looks ok even with his legs stacked out in the next country over. :laugh:

Edited February 26, 2013 by Polecatty

[WreckitWhippet]

That's a big call to make.

LOL and I am happy to make it ..... on looks alone. I have never shown, never likely, and am happy to know that a dog is happy and healthy.

That GSD is plain sad. Look at the difference between the younger and older photographs in terms of the back legs. Elbow is heading to the ground.

You've just bagged the BOB Westminster Whippet and you have no idea about the standard, as I said, it's a big call to make

[WreckitWhippet]

Can't say I'm impressed by the grey...fat, undermuscled and that flat front foot...oh man. Maybe it's just the picture.

The whippy looks ok even with his legs stacked out in the next country over. :laugh:

Ummm hello, the standard calls for the following

Strong, broad across the thighs, with well developed second thighs. Stifles well bent without exaggeration with hocks well let down. Able to stand naturally over a lot of ground.

Same dog but obviously younger and less mature than his Westminster photo.

[Polecatty]

Can't say I'm impressed by the grey...fat, undermuscled and that flat front foot...oh man. Maybe it's just the picture.

The whippy looks ok even with his legs stacked out in the next country over. :laugh:

Ummm hello, the standard calls for the following

Strong, broad across the thighs, with well developed second thighs. Stifles well bent without exaggeration with hocks well let down. Able to stand naturally over a lot of ground.

Same dog but obviously younger and less mature than his Westminster photo.

A dog can stand and cover a lot of ground without excessive rear angulation, though that is quite separate to the fact that I wasn't commenting on the dog's adherence to the standard- I was suggesting that he was over stacked in that particular image. I personally think it isn't presenting well in the first picture; your mileage may vary.

And, ummm hello, you can ditch the 'tude.

Edit: I do like the look of his feet. They look nice and tight.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Polecatty

[Loving my Oldies]

You've just bagged the BOB Westminster Whippet and you have no idea about the standard, as I said, it's a big call to make

Doesn't worry me. A good dog is like art . . . . . I know what I like.

[german_shep_fan]

Overangulation is NOT desirable in the GSD and neither is hocks sitting on the ground when the dog stands. The 3 point stand is the natural stance of the GSD and that is why dogs are stacked like that in the show ring.

Here is the dog considered the best in Germany 2 years in a row for comparison

and again (younger photo)

I must admit I was a bit shocked by the photos of the GSD too. It doesn't seem to stand over its front legs properly and resting on the back leg pasterns looks painful for the dog. It might be a bad photo but either way it was standing like that. I started looking at photos on the web (maybe not a good idea) but came across this one which is a GSDCA National Gold Medal dog in Oz. It's also the sire of a number of winning dogs. If overangulation is not desireable, how can they be winning looking like this? It doesn't look like its moving easily at all.

The standard calls for "The topline flows from the set on of the neck, over the high long withers and over the straight back to the slightly sloping croup without a noticeable break" These winning dogs seem to have a roach back, not straight? Sorry for my ignorance if I've misunderstood the standard.

Sorry but those pics just reaffirm my view. That dog IS overangulated and I know the natural 3 point stack the GSD does, it should not look like that :'(

This is why I don't go near the ring, however I still know the standard and what should result from it, Roova you have not misunderstood the standard, that's the sad part!

[Loving my Oldies]

Sorry but those pics just reaffirm my view. That dog IS overangulated and I know the natural 3 point stack the GSD does, it should not look like that :'(

This is why I don't go near the ring, however I still know the standard and what should result from it, Roova you have not misunderstood the standard, that's the sad part!

So why are these dogs winning, for goodness sake. Wasn't there one recently who despite being unable to walk properly won either BIS or BOB somewhere??

Why are German Shepherd Breeders breeding dogs who, seemingly, will win in the show ring, but not be sound?

[Roova]

Maybe your question is the answer? The win has become more important than the dog....

Edited February 26, 2013 by Roova

[german_shep_fan]

Sorry but those pics just reaffirm my view. That dog IS overangulated and I know the natural 3 point stack the GSD does, it should not look like that :'(

This is why I don't go near the ring, however I still know the standard and what should result from it, Roova you have not misunderstood the standard, that's the sad part!

So why are these dogs winning, for goodness sake. Wasn't there one recently who despite being unable to walk properly won either BIS or BOB somewhere??

Why are German Shepherd Breeders breeding dogs who, seemingly, will win in the show ring, but not be sound?

Idk :'( but as a lifelong enthusiast of the breed it makes me see red. I don't care what the show breeders think of my opinion, have seen so many pups from well known breeders lately who can't walk upright let alone stand upright, a blind man can see these dogs are not being bred to the standard. But hey if it wins in the showring....

Edited February 26, 2013 by german_shep_fan