Pockets Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Please take 2 minutes to sign the attached petition. The German Shepherd Dog LSC was approved to be shown in 2012, however inter-variety breeding between the SC and LSC is not allowed. The gene pool for the LSC is very small. As breeding is about "Breed Improvement" then the LSC needs time to create and develop a strong foundation if it has any hope of moving forward in the future. The curren petition is to allow inter-variety breeding for a period of 10 years in order to develop the breed variety. Currently inter-variety breeding is an allowable breeding Practice in Collies, Weim's, Dachys, Jack Russells etc, we are only asking the same rules be applied to the German Shepherd Dog. Although you may not own, show or breed German Shepherd Dogs, please sign our petition and support our requests. Your support is very much appreciated. http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/inter-variety-breeding-of-long-stock-and-stock-coated-g.html?fb_action_ids=10200165284709256&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210200165284709256%22%3A450635538342795%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210200165284709256%22%3A%22og.recommends%22%7D&action_ref_map= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Just wondering as I don't know much about the LSC, was a reason given for not allowing that breeding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I'm not totally sure but I think the powers that be at the time didn't really understand the genetics of coat and how it carries. We have a bitch we know to carry the long coat gene....her daughter MAY carry it, but has yet to produce a long coat so it is possible she does not,even though some of her littermates were long coat. Unless both short coats carry, there won't be longs. Breeding longs can produce short coats. There are no guarantees that the entire litter will be long because of how the gene is. Longs and shorts have been mated together for many years without issues and have produced some stunners. (both long and short coats) A GSD is a GSD....history writes there is no wrong colour for a GSD.....there (in my opinion) is no wrong coat style...as such...a GSD bred to a GSD is a no brainer...coat becomes second....at the appropriate age when sure of the coat....register it appropriately, or simply show it in the correct class in a show. (much like we do with Manchester Terriers in North America.....toys are 12 pounds and under....but they are registered as Manchesters and yes..if they go over weight...they move from the toy ring to the terrier ring..no drama...it's one breed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Breeding long coat to long coat cannot produce short Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) I'm not totally sure but I think the powers that be at the time didn't really understand the genetics of coat and how it carries. We have a bitch we know to carry the long coat gene....her daughter MAY carry it, but has yet to produce a long coat so it is possible she does not,even though some of her littermates were long coat. Unless both short coats carry, there won't be longs. Breeding longs can produce short coats. There are no guarantees that the entire litter will be long because of how the gene is. Longs and shorts have been mated together for many years without issues and have produced some stunners. (both long and short coats) A GSD is a GSD....history writes there is no wrong colour for a GSD.....there (in my opinion) is no wrong coat style...as such...a GSD bred to a GSD is a no brainer...coat becomes second....at the appropriate age when sure of the coat....register it appropriately, or simply show it in the correct class in a show. (much like we do with Manchester Terriers in North America.....toys are 12 pounds and under....but they are registered as Manchesters and yes..if they go over weight...they move from the toy ring to the terrier ring..no drama...it's one breed..... Breeding LC x LC will only ever produce LC. Unless you meant LC x SC in which case (in theory) the result would depend upon whether or not the SC parent was carrying the LC gene. If the SC was carrying in theory there would be LC puppies. If the SC was not carrying the LC gene then no resulting progeny would be LC however they would all be SC carrying the LC gene. SC (non carrying) x SC (carrying LC) would only produce SC. In my own breed, long coated carriers are known as "Fluff Factored" and those not carrying are known as "Fluff Free" :) Edited February 25, 2013 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I'd like to see the breakdown of the gene on that, because I know that a pair of LC was mated and out of the litter of 6, 2 were short stock coats. (this was a number of years ago back in Canada) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) I'd like to see the breakdown of the gene on that, because I know that a pair of LC was mated and out of the litter of 6, 2 were short stock coats. (this was a number of years ago back in Canada) I'd like to see the DNA results for the coat genetics of each of those parents then because I'd question their coat length if that was the case. Or the Coat length DNA of the supposed short stock coat pups. Edited March 4, 2013 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Danni Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Angelsun, read any of Dr Willis's books on GSD genetics and your info will be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inez Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Breeding long coat to long coat cannot produce short Dont Bet on it. There was a pretty high profile case in a chihuahua puppy, the sire was Gates Adam a very definate longcoat and cant remember the name of the mother, she too was a unmistakable longcoat. DNA proved absolutely the smoothcoat pup was their puppy. Ask Dogs NSW about it, cannot remember when but it was the talk of the chihuahua world at the time. The new owner of the pup wanted papers and was determined to get them. DNA gave him just that. Some one goofed bigtime when they said two longcoats cannot produce a smoothcoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Just to throw something else in the mix - Min Pins. always been smooth coat, having a long coat baby? Breeder swears it was only Min/Min mating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Breeding long coat to long coat cannot produce short Dont Bet on it. There was a pretty high profile case in a chihuahua puppy, the sire was Gates Adam a very definate longcoat and cant remember the name of the mother, she too was a unmistakable longcoat. DNA proved absolutely the smoothcoat pup was their puppy. Ask Dogs NSW about it, cannot remember when but it was the talk of the chihuahua world at the time. The new owner of the pup wanted papers and was determined to get them. DNA gave him just that. Some one goofed bigtime when they said two longcoats cannot produce a smoothcoat. Is the long coat gene of the Chi genetically the same as that of the GSD? I don't think anyone goofed and I feel certain that in these "odd" cases there have to be more modifying genes at work. Just to throw something else in the mix - Min Pins. always been smooth coat, having a long coat baby? Breeder swears it was only Min/Min mating. That's no uncommon I've read about it several times? It's well documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Aziah, could you link me to the articles/documentations you have read re the long coat on Min Pins please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Aziah, could you link me to the articles/documentations you have read re the long coat on Min Pins please? I stumbled upon about 3 articles some years back all showing a couple of pups/adults with ear, leg and tail feathering and some undercoat. I can't provide you with links because a) it was so long ago and b) I got to them inadvertantly via other breed links within pages that mentioned them. Basically the articles all were similar (so perhaps same source?) and all suggested that this happens every now and then in the breed and showed the photos. Nothing indepth about why or genetics just taht they "popped up" from time to time! WHich seems to fit with your posting earlier. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 That's Ok Aziah. I've had Mins for about 30 years and along with many others who have also been involved for ages have never seen/ heard of long coats. There's been a lot of 'googling' and research done and not a thing! Came up with crossbreeds, Mins/Dachies/Poms etc. so was interested in what you had found. An overseas litter was advertised as long coat but the photos of the dam and pups didn't have a long hair in sight! Reckon I'd be doing DNA for parentage if I ever produced a 'long coat' lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 that would be the same as LC rotties popping up, rare, but it can happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 That's Ok Aziah. I've had Mins for about 30 years and along with many others who have also been involved for ages have never seen/ heard of long coats. There's been a lot of 'googling' and research done and not a thing! Came up with crossbreeds, Mins/Dachies/Poms etc. so was interested in what you had found. An overseas litter was advertised as long coat but the photos of the dam and pups didn't have a long hair in sight! Reckon I'd be doing DNA for parentage if I ever produced a 'long coat' lol. Maybe the article/s I saw wasn't genuine purebred Min Pin then, I really know nothing about the breed so just tookit for what it was and believe dhwta I had read now what's the saying?...don't believe everything you read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 that would be the same as LC rotties popping up, rare, but it can happen Yes, like this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'm not totally sure but I think the powers that be at the time didn't really understand the genetics of coat and how it carries. We have a bitch we know to carry the long coat gene....her daughter MAY carry it, but has yet to produce a long coat so it is possible she does not,even though some of her littermates were long coat. Unless both short coats carry, there won't be longs. Breeding longs can produce short coats. There are no guarantees that the entire litter will be long because of how the gene is. Longs and shorts have been mated together for many years without issues and have produced some stunners. (both long and short coats) A GSD is a GSD....history writes there is no wrong colour for a GSD.....there (in my opinion) is no wrong coat style...as such...a GSD bred to a GSD is a no brainer...coat becomes second....at the appropriate age when sure of the coat....register it appropriately, or simply show it in the correct class in a show. (much like we do with Manchester Terriers in North America.....toys are 12 pounds and under....but they are registered as Manchesters and yes..if they go over weight...they move from the toy ring to the terrier ring..no drama...it's one breed..... stupid question..... If LSC and SC GSDs are the same in every other aspect - then why are LSC counted as a different breed now? Why not just add LSC as an acceptable coat and allow them to be shown with short coat GSDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 The LSC are an accepted "variety" not a "breed" as such :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 The LSC are an accepted "variety" not a "breed" as such :) a related question - can two rough coat collies make a smooth or two smooth coats make a rough - or are they different breeds? Is this a similar situation? Always curious about genetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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