Price Of Puppies

[Alibi]

Because this so called research is a load of crap, as Hemangiosarcoma doesn't occur in every breed. It doesn't occur in Belgian Shepherds, Rottweilers, Collies (rough & smooth) Poodles and many others.... so who ever did this "research" and claimed "desexing leads to an increased incidence of Hemangiosarcoma" must have been smoking something.

Check this link.

http://sydney.edu.au/vetscience/lida/dogs/

What did shock me was the number of breeds that von willebrands disease occured in. I do pardon you. :)

Doesn't occur in Belgian Shepherds???

I guess my boy must still be alive somewhere then?

I wasn't going to wade into this thread because I know the pain of losing a dog to this disease, but now you say he couldn't have had it?

Espinay is right, LIDA is neither comprehensive nor reliable.

I lost my little pomeranian X mini daschund last year to this cancer too.

Omg those pups are just so squishable :D

[Dame Aussie]

The puppies are divine

[Kinkykaters]

omg best post ever! sums up pretty much every thing to a tee

[Poodle wrangler]

Too cute puppies.

Back to puppy price...

I figure I'm buying:

* Health testing

* Pedigree- healthy dogs, good temperament, looking like their breed ought to

* Breeder's expenses - vet, vacc, chipping, worming, equipment etc.

* Breeders time- care for bitch, puppies

* Breeder's socialisation of puppies

* Grooming puppies, before and when leaving for new home (thinking: Poodles)

* Phone, email advice

* Ongoing support with managing puppies health and wellbeing- phone, email etc.

* Health guarantee (?) ... am about to research what that actually means ....

[seld]

My pup so far, including shipping, vet bills etc is coming in at about 5k+ (until we get some back from insurance); however, she is priceless to me, especially while I'm sick on the couch with the flu and she's snuggled up under the blanket keeping me warm. Mastiff snuggles should be prescribed!

[Lasareina]

Before I say anything I want to make clear that I have NO PROBLEM with breeders asking whatever price they want for their puppies. They have put in the time, effort and money and it is absolutely up to them what price they want to ask in return.

However, I'm another one that takes exception the the generalisation which came up earlier in the thread - that people who don't want to/can't pay $1500+ for registered pedigree puppies can't afford to own a dog, or won't care for that dog properly if they get one.

Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each. There is NO WAY I could have convinced my partner that it is necessary or desirable to spend $1500+ each on the pups. To be honest, I would have had difficulty swallowing that myself ... In my family bargain hunting is like a religion :laugh: . We had just bought our first home, and are both in fairly low paying jobs.

That being said, our dogs want for nothing. They are fully insured. They were being fed TOTW and Earthborn Holistic dry food at about $100 per 15kg bag and are now on a raw barf diet (eating better than us!). They are fully vaccinated and religiously wormed/fleatreated. They have recently been enrolled in obedience classes at $180 a dog. The are regularly exercised and socialised and have more combinations of leads / harnesses / collars etc than I have shoes. Hunter started limping at 10pm one night last week and was at the vets first thing the next morning. As soon as he got to the vets he got so excited he forgot all about the fact that he was only walking on 3 legs a moment ago and was perfectly fine from that point on. Nevertheless $550 spent at the vet trying to diagnose the problem and find out if there were any issues that needed management. We now think the problem was possibly a pinching nerve.

I accept that by getting a registered puppy you know the history of the genetics of that dog, and can therefore rule out health issues that cannot be ruled out with more "casually" bred dogs (like that description? :laugh: ) I also accept that my pups will probably not conform to breed standard or be "show quality". Thats fine - I was looking for a family pet not a perfect example of the breed. All my previous dogs have been mixed breeds, from the pound. So the idea that you may have a mixed result in terms of health, conformation or any other aspect of the dog is no new idea for us.

I just don't think that because someone decides not to buy a registered, pedigree dog they should all be tarred with the same "bad / irresponsible / don't care about their dogs / likely to dump" brush. As i think someone else mentioned - cost is all relative anyway. For someone on a $100,000 a year wage, the fact that a dog was $3000 probably doesn't make them reconsider dumping it if that is what they are inclined to do.

I in no way mean to diminish what breeders are trying to achieve, or make a judgement about whether you should or shouldn't buy from a registered breeder... I just think that some generalisations are a tad unfair.

[Salukifan]

Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each. There is NO WAY I could have convinced my partner that it is necessary or desirable to spend $1500+ each on the pups. To be honest, I would have had difficulty swallowing that myself ... In my family bargain hunting is like a religion :laugh: . We had just bought our first home, and are both in fairly low paying jobs.

If you decide down the track that you want to breed pedigreed SBTs, my guess is that your thoughts will change. You'll see spending that money as an investment in a dog that's a good representative of the breed standard and you'll pay it to get a pup from health tested parents that's been whelped and raised to the best of the breeder's ability. You'll look at pups tht most people think are cuteness overload with eyes that see conformation faults that may lead to ongoing soundness problems and you'll want none of that.

And when the time comes for you to sell your thoughtfully bred pups, you'll put a price on them that reflects the time and effort you went into selecting your breeding stock, whelping the litter and raising it with optimum care.

Sometimes, just sometimes with dogs you do get what you paid for - or didn't in the case of dogs with completely preventable health issues.

Good breeders don't need to hold a gun to anyone's head to get the prices they charge. I don't see anyone suggesting that those who don't want to pay that sort of money should have to either. But consider for a moment what's paying for the forum so many people turn to for advice on raising their pups. Seems to me that some people aren't fully aware of how much registered dog breeders contribute to providing the informaton so many people gain here. "I'd never pay that for a pup" you say. But here you are, benefiting from those who do. Extolling the benefits of bargain hunting doesn't sit so well with me in that regard.

I'm not suggesting that all dog owners shouldn't be here and share in the wealth of knowledge this forum provides. But perhaps a little more respect for the aims of this forum and what it seeks to promote is called for. If your view is that there's no way in future you'd buy an ANKC registered pup (or a rescue), don't expect that to sit well with everyone. For some of us, cost is not the issue that drives what we buy and IMO the more you learn about dogs, the more you'll value what a responsibly bred pedigreed pup means.

FYI, I've never paid more than $800 for a pedigreed pup. The last one was free. :)

Edited September 4, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[RallyValley]

I just don't think that because someone decides not to buy a registered, pedigree dog they should all be tarred with the same "bad / irresponsible / don't care about their dogs / likely to dump" brush. As i think someone else mentioned - cost is all relative anyway. For someone on a $100,000 a year wage, the fact that a dog was $3000 probably doesn't make them reconsider dumping it if that is what they are inclined to do.

If I was buying a Stafford I would happily pay an extra $1,000 to know my dog was not affected with L2HGA, which sounds like a really nasty disease. I've never heard of an unregistered breeder that tests for L2HGA.

Or the very very sad thread that was on here a while ago where someone brought home a very cute Border Collie pup from an unregistered breeder, the pup got sick and died from TNS. A disease that can easily be prevented by doing a simple DNA test on sire and dam. I believe the family later brought a lovely registered pup. Again if I was getting a Border Collie I would rather pay for a pup I know didn't have a fatal genetic disorder.

Edited September 4, 2013 by RallyValley

[LisaCC]

My last dog was bought as purely a companion, I bought my current pup for the same reason but have been given the opportunity to show, I would still only ever buy from a registered breeder. To me a good family pet includes good health and good conformation. I know as well as anyone that you can't predict everything but at least I know my boy will never get HC or CEA. If you can guarantee a beloved family pet is free from certain problems why not spend the extra money?

It may just be that I know some extra crap BYBs but all the ones I know don't look at temperament when they breed either.

Edited September 4, 2013 by LisaCC

[Yonjuro]

Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each. There is NO WAY I could have convinced my partner that it is necessary or desirable to spend $1500+ each on the pups. To be honest, I would have had difficulty swallowing that myself ... In my family bargain hunting is like a religion :laugh: . We had just bought our first home, and are both in fairly low paying jobs.

If you decide down the track that you want to breed pedigreed SBTs, my guess is that your thoughts will change. You'll see spending that money as an investment in a dog that's a good representative of the breed standard and you'll pay it to get a pup from health tested parents that's been whelped and raised to the best of the breeder's ability. You'll look at pups tht most people think are cuteness overload with eyes that see conformation faults that may lead to ongoing soundness problems and you'll want none of that.

And when the time comes for you to sell your thoughtfully bred pups, you'll put a price on them that reflects the time and effort you went into selecting your breeding stock, whelping the litter and raising it with optimum care.

Sometimes, just sometimes with dogs you do get what you paid for - or didn't in the case of dogs with completely preventable health issues.

Good breeders don't need to hold a gun to anyone's head to get the prices they charge. I don't see anyone suggesting that those who don't want to pay that sort of money should have to either. But consider for a moment what's paying for the forum so many people turn to for advice on raising their pups. Seems to me that some people aren't fully aware of how much registered dog breeders contribute to providing the informaton so many people gain here. "I'd never pay that for a pup" you say. But here you are, benefiting from those who do. Extolling the benefits of bargain hunting doesn't sit so well with me in that regard.

I'm not suggesting that all dog owners shouldn't be here and share in the wealth of knowledge this forum provides. But perhaps a little more respect for the aims of this forum and what it seeks to promote is called for. If your view is that there's no way in future you'd buy an ANKC registered pup (or a rescue), don't expect that to sit well with everyone. For some of us, cost is not the issue that drives what we buy and IMO the more you learn about dogs, the more you'll value what a responsibly bred pedigreed pup means.

FYI, I've never paid more than $800 for a pedigreed pup. The last one was free. :)

+1

Good points

[Rebanne]

Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each.

which you were going breed

[minimax]

Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each.

which you were going breed

she doesn't want to be a registered breeder, she wants to be a byb. she's stated that several times.

[Rebanne]

Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each.

which you were going breed

she doesn't want to be a registered breeder, she wants to be a byb. she's stated that several times.

I've missed that info She's on the wrong forum them

[Lasareina]

Yeah, that’s the problem. If you set out to do things properly and breed healthy happy pups that carry only the best attributes of your breed, you will never make money, and yet people will bitch about the cost. That’s why it seems most responsible breeders really only do it for the love of the breed.

Of course if you’re happy to over-breed your substandard bitch with an equally substandard male, and forgo the niceties of hip & elbow scoring, vet services, and raise the pups in some chook-pen out the back, then I guess there may be a few dollars to be made.

Unfortunately low-cost pups appeal to “low-cost” owners who won’t care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble.

Personally I would rather see a few more dogs coming from quality breeders at a HIGHER price.

This is the point that I was saying I had an objection to.

Before I say anything I want to make clear that I have NO PROBLEM with breeders asking whatever price they want for their puppies. They have put in the time, effort and money and it is absolutely up to them what price they want to ask in return.

...

I in no way mean to diminish what breeders are trying to achieve, or make a judgement about whether you should or shouldn't buy from a registered breeder... I just think that some generalisations are a tad unfair.

Please read the parts of my post where I clearly state that I am not saying that registered breeders are charging too much, and where I clearly say I am not trying to question the importance of what the breeders ares trying to achieve or argue whether people should or shouldn't buy from registered breeders.

Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each. There is NO WAY I could have convinced my partner that it is necessary or desirable to spend $1500+ each on the pups. To be honest, I would have had difficulty swallowing that myself ... In my family bargain hunting is like a religion :laugh: . We had just bought our first home, and are both in fairly low paying jobs.

If you decide down the track that you want to breed pedigreed SBTs, my guess is that your thoughts will change. You'll see spending that money as an investment in a dog that's a good representative of the breed standard and you'll pay it to get a pup from health tested parents that's been whelped and raised to the best of the breeder's ability. You'll look at pups tht most people think are cuteness overload with eyes that see conformation faults that may lead to ongoing soundness problems and you'll want none of that.

And when the time comes for you to sell your thoughtfully bred pups, you'll put a price on them that reflects the time and effort you went into selecting your breeding stock, whelping the litter and raising it with optimum care.

Sometimes, just sometimes with dogs you do get what you paid for - or didn't in the case of dogs with completely preventable health issues.

Good breeders don't need to hold a gun to anyone's head to get the prices they charge. I don't see anyone suggesting that those who don't want to pay that sort of money should have to either. But consider for a moment what's paying for the forum so many people turn to for advice on raising their pups. Seems to me that some people aren't fully aware of how much registered dog breeders contribute to providing the informaton so many people gain here. "I'd never pay that for a pup" you say. But here you are, benefiting from those who do. Extolling the benefits of bargain hunting doesn't sit so well with me in that regard.

I'm not suggesting that all dog owners shouldn't be here and share in the wealth of knowledge this forum provides. But perhaps a little more respect for the aims of this forum and what it seeks to promote is called for. If your view is that there's no way in future you'd buy an ANKC registered pup (or a rescue), don't expect that to sit well with everyone. For some of us, cost is not the issue that drives what we buy and IMO the more you learn about dogs, the more you'll value what a responsibly bred pedigreed pup means.

FYI, I've never paid more than $800 for a pedigreed pup. The last one was free. :)

The "bargain" comment was an attempt at a lighthearted way of highlighting my upbringing - I was not trying to say that I equate my much loved pups with a bargain.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that "there's no way I would ever buy an ANKC registered pup" - that's not what I was saying and it is not what I think... down the track I would actually love to become more involved in the dog world, learn more and maybe eventually moved down the track of becoming a registered breeder.

I wasn't really meaning to debate the merits of whether or not everyone should but a registered pedigree puppy - just saying that if people choose NOT to, it doesn't automatically mean they will be any less of an attentive and caring owner. Just as someone who does buy a pedigree puppy isn't automatically going to be a great owner.

The point I was trying to make is that people should be judged on their actions, not from some overarching generalisation.

I think I read somewhere that registered pedigree breeders account for only about 10 - 20% of Australian dogs. Does this mean that the other 80 - 90% of dog owners can be automatically catergorised as "“low-cost” owners who won’t care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble."??

I probably have the exact percentage wrong but you can see what I mean.

I tried very hard NOT to offend anyone, as I know the majority of people on this forum are either registered breeders or own registered dogs. I really don't see how I was disrespectful. I was simply questioning this one assumption. Forums are designed for discussion and communication, so i thought that would be allowed

[grizabella]

When paying for a puppy from an ethical breeder, you are getting lifelong support, which I think is priceless. Should I need help (especially being new to the breed), it is good to know that I have someone that I can always ask questions, who cares about my dog. If anything were to happen to me, my dog would have someone knowledgeable and caring to go back to, which gives great peace of mind.

I would never hand over my money to someone without the best interests of the dogs at heart, no matter how much of a discount it may sound like. Knowing that necessary health tests have been done and that we have the support of breed knowledgeable people is worth every penny.

[Lasareina]

Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each.

which you were going breed

she doesn't want to be a registered breeder, she wants to be a byb. she's stated that several times.

I've missed that info She's on the wrong forum them

Actually Juno just got back from being desexed today, so that would be hard.

[Rebanne]

Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each.

which you were going breed

she doesn't want to be a registered breeder, she wants to be a byb. she's stated that several times.

I've missed that info She's on the wrong forum them

Actually Juno just got back from being desexed today, so that would be hard.

not really, you can just go get another $500 special from down the road

[fluff1234]

We paid a lot for my puppy, but he is worth every cent..

I never even asked the price and had already put my name down before even being told. We saved and paid whatever she told us it was.

I see it as I have a dog who has come from the best parents I can hope for, genetically tested and bred for quality in all areas.

I am not into showing or breeding ( leave that to the experts) but I feel although he did cost us a lot of money, I have a companion for hopefully a very long time, a part of the family..

I also know I have advice and help should I need it whenever I need it. Support and a ear if issues arise.

[BlackJaq]

Bargain hunting does not sound like a good approach when you are looking to spend an entire lifetime of an animal with that animal.

Not to mention buying a BYB pup encourages those people to breed again and guess where a buttload of the pups end up due to lack of proper screening of buyers and other issues (health and temperament )...

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Something that might have been missed in HW post is that once you have runs on the board as a responsible owner who will work with the dog (show or dog sport) and give it a great home life people will practically fling puppies at you.

But if you approach it without having "paid your dues" and expect people to give a bargain price to an unknown buyer, well, more often than not you'll be disappointed.