tdierikx Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 None of those articles states conclusively that Hemangiosarcoma is heritable - just that it is suspected that heritable factors may come into play in the forming of the cancer itself... but they have no proof either way that this is actually the case. T. The fact of the mater is, no one knows what causes it and that's the problem. My GSD boy is 10 yrs old and never been sick in his life, so not all GSDs get it...and not all Dobermanns will get Wobblers or many other health issues associated with these breeds but the risk is still there and no puppy buyer wants a sick dog do they.... as you don't know if your pup will lead a long healthy life which is what anyone wants especially after paying $1500. Funnily enough, I expect ANY pup I buy as a pet will live a long and healthy life - regardless whether it's a fully pedigreed dog from the best breeder, or a rescue crossbreed, etc... I also know that crossbreed genetics are always going to be mostly unknown - and that great breeders cannot test for every possible health defect that may crop up in the future, but there will never be 100% guarantee that something won't develop at some stage in the life of any dog. This fad of wanting to hold your dog's breeder to account for anything that doesn't go perfectly with your dog is a bit OTT. They can guarantee that certain heritable traits will not be there, and can give you test results to show that hips, elbows, eyes, etc, are sound in their lines... but they can't 100% guarantee that something that also has environmental factors will never happen with your dog. As for prices - just check out the prices for pups in pet shops - easily close to or even more expensive for that genetic lottery, as opposed to knowing what you are actually getting from a good registered breeder. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsAndTheMob Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I agree, WExtremeG. I think you and I are trying to make the same point.... There are no guarantees, but puppy purchasers can reduce some risks by buying a puppy with a documented pedigree and evidence of appropriate health and genetic screening of parents and related dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 How can you measure the odds on what is, in effect, a moving target? With updatable probability models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsAndTheMob Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 A model that accounted for all the variables would be fascinating, Corvus. I look forward to reading the research paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyz Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Slightly OTT, but My 11 year old Is currently undergoing chemo for hemangiosarcoma.. (touch wood so far going well, expected lifespan 4-6 months, now 8 months since having her ruptured spleen removed...!) She was only recently desexed before diagnoses (so no signs of problems then!). As she has had a couple of litters I was of course concerned about the hereditary concerns, but her oncologists tell me there is no conclusive data, so I can breath easy. However I have a couple of her offspring, and am in contact with most of the others so time will tell. They also advised none of the data about early desexing was conclusive as yet... Edited March 9, 2013 by Xyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarope Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Tarope: Hemangiosarcoma is no laughing mater, what does make me laugh are people who think they know every thing Pardon me? I referred to research that links desexing to an increased incidence of Hemangiosarcoma. You joked about having a good laugh with your vet, suggesting I had said "desexing causes Hemangiosarcoma". In other words you both misintepreted what I'd said and rubbished the research. Because this so called research is a load of crap, as Hemangiosarcoma doesn't occur in every breed. It doesn't occur in Belgian Shepherds, Rottweilers, Collies (rough & smooth) Poodles and many others.... so who ever did this "research" and claimed "desexing leads to an increased incidence of Hemangiosarcoma" must have been smoking something. Check this link. http://sydney.edu.au/vetscience/lida/dogs/ What did shock me was the number of breeds that von willebrands disease occured in. I do pardon you. :) Edited March 9, 2013 by tarope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Lida. The website that lists inverted vulva as an issue in my breed based on one 4 month puppy who later grew out of it. And lists many things for my breed never really heard of but misses many that are important .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Because this so called research is a load of crap, as Hemangiosarcoma doesn't occur in every breed. It doesn't occur in Belgian Shepherds, Rottweilers, Collies (rough & smooth) Poodles and many others.... so who ever did this "research" and claimed "desexing leads to an increased incidence of Hemangiosarcoma" must have been smoking something. Check this link. http://sydney.edu.au/vetscience/lida/dogs/ What did shock me was the number of breeds that von willebrands disease occured in. I do pardon you. :) Doesn't occur in Belgian Shepherds??? I guess my boy must still be alive somewhere then? I wasn't going to wade into this thread because I know the pain of losing a dog to this disease, but now you say he couldn't have had it? Espinay is right, LIDA is neither comprehensive nor reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Maniac Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I think that discussion warrants its own thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Tarope: Hemangiosarcoma is no laughing mater, what does make me laugh are people who think they know every thing Pardon me? I referred to research that links desexing to an increased incidence of Hemangiosarcoma. You joked about having a good laugh with your vet, suggesting I had said "desexing causes Hemangiosarcoma". In other words you both misintepreted what I'd said and rubbished the research. Because this so called research is a load of crap, as Hemangiosarcoma doesn't occur in every breed. It doesn't occur in Belgian Shepherds, Rottweilers, Collies (rough & smooth) Poodles and many others.... so who ever did this "research" and claimed "desexing leads to an increased incidence of Hemangiosarcoma" must have been smoking something. Check this link. http://sydney.edu.au/vetscience/lida/dogs/ What did shock me was the number of breeds that von willebrands disease occured in. I do pardon you. :) Tarope this is getting a bit out of hand. You are not the only member here who has lost their beloved gsd or dog of any breed to hamengiosacorma. The info I posted and research and data collected DOES pertain to gsds. If you choose to laugh off the facts the HW and I have posted then so be it. They say cure is at least 20 years off so all that can be done in the meantime is research causes and contributing factors or just stay away from the breed altogether. Sorry for going so OT OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Ummm... I'll refer you back to my post where I said I had a Rotti get Hemangiosarcoma... it can occur in ANY breed, but research somewhere has noted that GSD's and GR's seem to have a higher incidence of it than other breeds. Anyways - back on topic... MonElite - we need more photos of the babies please!! T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Uploading to Facebook right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Edited March 10, 2013 by MonElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 awww they are just divine, I want to smooch them and smell their puppy breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinabean Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Oh my. They are just so beautiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Oh my they are beautiful...all of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Oh my! They are starting to look like little dogs already! Stunning babies MonElite - you and Furia are doing an awesome job with them... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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