Price Of Puppies

[tdierikx]

What a lovely spread of colours you have there MonElite. Furia and her babies are looking great!

In 6 weeks time, you are definitely going to have your hands full... *grin*

T.

[mollipop]

Think my babies were born on the same day, MonElite, so I feel your tiredness.

She had a litter of 11 but sadly the last 2 were stillborn, 5 hours after the others.

I had someone comment yesterday that it must be difficult to manage with wet dogs and puppies in this weather!

They seemed surprised when I said that they were all snug and warm in my dining room.

[MonElite]

All the pups have put on massive amounts of weight since yesterday. And Furia is looking and feeling fantastic!

[corvus]

Everyone suffers for their 'art'. But most of us don't think of monetary payment as compensation for that suffering, nor do we need the people who might benefit from our efforts to know how hard it was. The reward is in sharing something you love with others and through that act, enriching their lives.

[Kavik]

So glad they are going well for you MonElite! :)

I'm hoping for a new addition soon - they will be around the same age! Maybe they can have a playdate later, it's been way too long since I saw you :)

[YOLO]

Yeah, that’s the problem. If you set out to do things properly and breed healthy happy pups that carry only the best attributes of your breed, you will never make money, and yet people will bitch about the cost. That’s why it seems most responsible breeders really only do it for the love of the breed.

Of course if you’re happy to over-breed your substandard bitch with an equally substandard male, and forgo the niceties of hip & elbow scoring, vet services, and raise the pups in some chook-pen out the back, then I guess there may be a few dollars to be made.

Unfortunately low-cost pups appeal to “low-cost” owners who won’t care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble.

Personally I would rather see a few more dogs coming from quality breeders at a HIGHER price.

[BoxerB]

Yeah, thats the problem. If you set out to do things properly and breed healthy happy pups that carry only the best attributes of your breed, you will never make money, and yet people will bitch about the cost. Thats why it seems most responsible breeders really only do it for the love of the breed.

Of course if youre happy to over-breed your substandard bitch with an equally substandard male, and forgo the niceties of hip & elbow scoring, vet services, and raise the pups in some chook-pen out the back, then I guess there may be a few dollars to be made.

Unfortunately low-cost pups appeal to low-cost owners who wont care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble.

Personally I would rather see a few more dogs coming from quality breeders at a HIGHER price.

Really?? Awesome generalisation there!

For the record i used a breeder and a well known one at that and although not on an unlimited budget cost was second to me behind getting a pup with the right bloodlines/temprement and parents that had been tested. So i whole hartedly support breeders and the prices they ask for puppies.

Edited February 25, 2013 by BoxerB

[YOLO]

Yeah, that’s the problem. If you set out to do things properly and breed healthy happy pups that carry only the best attributes of your breed, you will never make money, and yet people will bitch about the cost. That’s why it seems most responsible breeders really only do it for the love of the breed.

Of course if you’re happy to over-breed your substandard bitch with an equally substandard male, and forgo the niceties of hip & elbow scoring, vet services, and raise the pups in some chook-pen out the back, then I guess there may be a few dollars to be made.

Unfortunately low-cost pups appeal to “low-cost” owners who won’t care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble.

Personally I would rather see a few more dogs coming from quality breeders at a HIGHER price.

Really?? Awesome generalisation there!

How so?

I've no wish to deny any family the joys of having a dog, but it is not cheap. And if your beloved pet gets ill, vet care is very expensive.

On a purely financial note it is a better investment to secure healthy pup from a quality breeder.

[Dory the Doted One]

Yeah, that’s the problem. If you set out to do things properly and breed healthy happy pups that carry only the best attributes of your breed, you will never make money, and yet people will bitch about the cost. That’s why it seems most responsible breeders really only do it for the love of the breed.

Of course if you’re happy to over-breed your substandard bitch with an equally substandard male, and forgo the niceties of hip & elbow scoring, vet services, and raise the pups in some chook-pen out the back, then I guess there may be a few dollars to be made.

Unfortunately low-cost pups appeal to “low-cost” owners who won’t care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble.

Personally I would rather see a few more dogs coming from quality breeders at a HIGHER price.

Really?? Awesome generalisation there!

How so?

I've no wish to deny any family the joys of having a dog, but it is not cheap. And if your beloved pet gets ill, vet care is very expensive.

On a purely financial note it is a better investment to secure healthy pup from a quality breeder.

The suggestion that they won't care for it properly and will dump it, might have been the 'awesome generalization', that was in contention.

I must admit. I found it offensive.

But that's my tough bickies. Right?

[YOLO]

Yeah, that’s the problem. If you set out to do things properly and breed healthy happy pups that carry only the best attributes of your breed, you will never make money, and yet people will bitch about the cost. That’s why it seems most responsible breeders really only do it for the love of the breed.

Of course if you’re happy to over-breed your substandard bitch with an equally substandard male, and forgo the niceties of hip & elbow scoring, vet services, and raise the pups in some chook-pen out the back, then I guess there may be a few dollars to be made.

Unfortunately low-cost pups appeal to “low-cost” owners who won’t care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble.

Personally I would rather see a few more dogs coming from quality breeders at a HIGHER price.

Really?? Awesome generalisation there!

How so?

I've no wish to deny any family the joys of having a dog, but it is not cheap. And if your beloved pet gets ill, vet care is very expensive.

On a purely financial note it is a better investment to secure healthy pup from a quality breeder.

The suggestion that they won't care for it properly and will dump it, might have been the 'awesome generalization', that was in contention.

I must admit. I found it offensive.

But that's my tough bickies. Right?

Unfortunately such owners exist. Pointing out their existence is neither a generalisation nor offensive.

[RubyBlue]

Yeah, that’s the problem. If you set out to do things properly and breed healthy happy pups that carry only the best attributes of your breed, you will never make money, and yet people will bitch about the cost. That’s why it seems most responsible breeders really only do it for the love of the breed.

Of course if you’re happy to over-breed your substandard bitch with an equally substandard male, and forgo the niceties of hip & elbow scoring, vet services, and raise the pups in some chook-pen out the back, then I guess there may be a few dollars to be made.

Unfortunately low-cost pups appeal to “low-cost” owners who won’t care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble.

Personally I would rather see a few more dogs coming from quality breeders at a HIGHER price.

Really?? Awesome generalisation there!

How so?

I've no wish to deny any family the joys of having a dog, but it is not cheap. And if your beloved pet gets ill, vet care is very expensive.

On a purely financial note it is a better investment to secure healthy pup from a quality breeder.

The suggestion that they won't care for it properly and will dump it, might have been the 'awesome generalization', that was in contention.

I must admit. I found it offensive.

But that's my tough bickies. Right?

Unfortunately such owners exist. Pointing out their existence is neither a generalisation nor offensive.

I find it offensive too. It is one thing to say that there are such people out there, but instead you are implying that budget is a predictor of moral values.

There are a lot of people on this forum with very limited income and it think it is fairly safe to generalise that dol members are good pet owners.

[WExtremeG]

I get the message big D is trying to make...

You'll be more a kin to looking after something if it is more valuable to you. A cat breeder long ago said that to me. and I believe it. There was an actual study done on peoples perspective value of animals those who paid a lot were more than likely to keep the animal and look after it while those who paid little were more likely to either gave it away or surrender it or not be able to pay for vet costs. (will have to see if I can find it again)

Low cost pups do attract the wrong people (and I know I said I'd stay away from these sale pages) just have a look at the facebook groups then look at the trends in your local pounds... also low costs attract impulse buys.

dol online is hardly the place to find impulse buyers as opposed to a 'any mix breed dog forum'

Edited February 28, 2013 by WExtremeG

[Just Andrea]

Thank you for the enlightenment MonElite. Very educational. I never have time to come in here but glad I did.

I think if I was ever in a position to be purchasing a purebreed pup from a breeder, I would like to think they would go to the same measures to ensure the health and wellbeing of their animals and its progeny as you have. I think for the right owner, price is the last thing they would and should be thinking about. Anyone serious about a breed should be doing their homework on many things first, price included, before making a serious enquiry.

ETA: Mum is stunning and that's a gorgeous litter....

Edited February 28, 2013 by Just Andrea

[tdierikx]

Ummm... we need more pics of the gorgeous puppies (and stunning Furia) MonElite... they are nearly a week old now!

T.

[merikuri]

great post MonElite! that's a lot of work to do!

i guess many people don't understand the price of pure bred puppies because they didn't do much research and didn't realise how much effort and care are put into breeding these puppies!

i once went into a pet shop and asked about the price of the puppies that i was planning to get and guess what? it's the same price as what my breeder charged!(she is registered and a well known breeder for this breed) there were even a few registered breeders who charged less than the pet shop price.

for a price that is the same as pet shop i don't think any sensible person should have chosen the latter (or even byb).. u pay less for the puppy now but u pay more after that (health etc).. not saying that puppies from a registered breeder will not have any problems, but i'm sure there will be a difference!

oh and we need more pics of the puppies!! :laugh:

[Ruin Maniac]

I saw "moodles" (that is moron for maltese x poodle) in the Chadstone Pets Paradise last year for $2,600

And yet people still buy from them thinking that because breeders don't generally advertise their prices, then they MUST be more expensive. They don't seem to understand that breeders don't really advertise the prices because most don't care for the money and buyers, as a general rule, shouldn't either. I didn't ask about the price of my dog and didn't know it until the day I picked him up. I had a rough idea of what it would be and I saved double that just in case, knowing there had been some unexpected costs with the litter. And even then, the total was less than I had anticipated.

How does one go about educating the public about the benefits of buying from a breeder and the expenses vs. a pet shop puppy? Are there any statistics on ailments and profit margins between the two that could be quoted?

I walk my pup around campus and happily talk about the benefits of purebreeding, in spite of the posters that have been papered about lately with the whole "ADOPT, DON'T SHOP" mantra that lump all dog breeders in the greedy, animal abusing basket.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Ruin Maniac

[WExtremeG]

How does one go about educating the public about the benefits of buying from a breeder and the expenses vs. a pet shop puppy? Are there any statistics on ailments and profit margins between the two that could be quoted?

Yes, I have also thought about this- the main ones that standout to me are:

Registered ANKC breeder:

*mandatory ANKC health testing/screening for all breeds that require it of breeding dogs

*Vaccinations

*Worming

*Microchipping

*Keeps pups til at least 8 weeks

Unregistered backyard breeder:

*does not do health checks (hip, elbow scoring ect or relative for the breed/s)before breeding dogs

*may not vaccinate

*may not worm

*may not microchip even though it is LAW in every state

*may get rid of pups before 8 weeks

Edited February 28, 2013 by WExtremeG

[pebbles]

I think until the ANKC/States can do some advertising, perhaps with a personality, we won't get any message over to the general public. The members can do some publicity but nothing gets to the public like TV. Look how the DD's took off when Don Burke started to champion them and knock the purebreeds! Realise this takes a lot of money but perhaps if the ANKC could get some sponsorship, maybe a food company, maybe a pharmacy company, etc. Years ago Pal used a number of pure breed members dogs to advertise their product. Another example of TV/films - the breed featured becomes flavour of the month. If it's on TV etc then people will take notice.

[BoxerB]

How does one go about educating the public about the benefits of buying from a breeder and the expenses vs. a pet shop puppy? Are there any statistics on ailments and profit margins between the two that could be quoted?

Yes, I have also thought about this- the main ones that standout to me are:

Registered ANKC breeder:

*mandatory ANKC health testing/screening for all breeds that require it of breeding dogs

*Vaccinations

*Worming

*Microchipping

*Keeps pups til at least 8 weeks

Unregistered backyard breeder:

*does not do health checks (hip, elbow scoring ect or relative for the breed/s)before breeding dogs

*may not vaccinate

*may not worm

*may not microchip even though it is LAW in every state

*may get rid of pups before 8 weeks

I did a lot of reasearch and spoke to a lot of breeders before making my decision.

This is not aimed at anyone here, but it honestly floored me at the amount of breeders who had the attitude of how dare i ask for health screening results. I had pretty much done a deal with one puppy, and when i asked for results and if they were hip tested, the answer i got back was, "we have been breeding champions for years and you can speak to our local vet, no one has ever asked us for that before".

They had in fact had a lot of champions, but when i'm asked to pay extra for the best, it's pretty rich them refusing to support any of the claims with evidence.

As this was my first foray into the world of breeders, you can imagine how us average Joe's can start thinking, well this is all a load of crap.

In my case i didn't, and found the perfect breeder with everything i was after, but it's not hard to see why the general public can sometimes be skeptical and question the high prices if they get the same experience as me.

It's not always the public's fault

Edited February 28, 2013 by BoxerB

[MonElite]

That's a bit different to many of my experiences.

I often get a phone call, despite the fact that in the advertisement I ask to fill in an enquiry form on my website.

The phone call usually is

I've seen your add on the Internet, have you got puppies?

Yes, what website did you find me on?

On the net, google

(I give them a list of potential sites)

Don't know but you've got puppies, right?

Yes I have puppies

How much for a big black male, with a big head and chest?

After I tell them how much some just say -oh ok, thanks

Some say - but I've seen a couple in the training post for $300 each

Not a lot of questions about lines, temperament or the health testing there lol

Edited March 1, 2013 by MonElite