Uk Research Finds Dogs Take An Owner's Point Of View Into Consider

[minimax]

http://www.news.com.au/national/uk-research-finds-dogs-take-an-owners-point-of-view-into-consideration-when-carrying-out-tasks/story-fndo4bst-1226579822052

THEY swear their pooch understands them and now devoted dog owners appear to have been proven right - scientists have shown what they claim is dogs factoring in a human point of view.

Research found dogs forbidden from stealing a snack will take food when they think you can't see them. It proves, the scientists say, that the dog first considered what a human could see before breaking the rules.

The UK research involved putting dogs in rooms which were dark and rooms which were lit. They discovered the dogs were four times more likely to disobey a command not to steal food left in the room when the room was dark. They acted the same, regardless of whether someone was in the room.

"That's incredible because it implies dogs understand the human can't see them, meaning they might understand the human perspective," Dr Juliane Kaminski, from the University of Portsmouth's psychology department said.

"Clearly the dogs take the social situation into account before they take any action. It suggests the dogs are looking at the food from the human perspective, as well as their own, before acting."

Sydney animal behaviourist Mali Rolph said it mirrored her experience with "counter surfing", where dogs would steal food from kitchen counters, often when the owner's back was turned.

"Labradors are notorious for it -we had one Lab that was clever enough to steal two pieces of pizza from a closed pizza box. He did it so secretively, the box re-closed on itself when he was done," Ms Rolph said.

"We've also seen lots of evidence which this research supports in our work with service or assistance dogs. They've shown us countless times they are capable of navigating a human who is sight impaired under or around obstacles that would be no challenge from the dogs perspective.

"For example, the dog will see a low beam that it could easily walk under, but recognises that it's human handler will be caused an injury if they continue to walk forward. The dog will then navigate the human safely around the beam."

[Greytmate]

This is really interesting.

When we walk our dogs we often take a piece of bread with us to give to the fish in the creek. Coco loves bread, and a few times now has waited until we are really distracted, halfway across a really busy road, and taken the opportunity to try to steal the bread out of our hands. She never tries it any other time, she knows not to steal our food. She realises that we are looking up and down the road for traffic, and are in a hurry to get across, and she takes her chance. She has never been successful, so it hasn't been self-rewarding, but she repeats the behaviour.

She isn't a really clever dog, and so I thought it was pretty amazing that she was perceptive enough to know when we were at our most vulnerable. There is no time to stop and correct a dog and remove the bread from her mouth in the middle of a main road. Naughty dog. :laugh:

[Jed]

Dogs know and understand heaps more than science gives them credit for .... and now science is proving these things.

I think is is great. It is difficult to prove a lot of these things, but we are getting there.

Good story about the bread! Sneaky thing!

[megan_]

Lucy waits until I'm out the room and steals the remote - she never even tries this when I'm watching her. If I leave the room and call out "Miss Lucy, don't even try it" in a neutral tone she won't touch it either.

[minimax]

"We've also seen lots of evidence which this research supports in our work with service or assistance dogs. They've shown us countless times they are capable of navigating a human who is sight impaired under or around obstacles that would be no challenge from the dogs perspective.

"For example, the dog will see a low beam that it could easily walk under, but recognises that it's human handler will be caused an injury if they continue to walk forward. The dog will then navigate the human safely around the beam."

I'm most interested in this one. This one indicates a higher level of reasoning that I wouldn't have really thought about ... but then I presume service dogs have a lot of training with spacial awareness and are maybe taught to think of their human as part of themselves when it comes to things like obstacles? I know "normal" dogs don't think about anyone else when it comes to getting through small things so it's really a training thing and not a natural thinking thing.

[Greytmate]

"We've also seen lots of evidence which this research supports in our work with service or assistance dogs. They've shown us countless times they are capable of navigating a human who is sight impaired under or around obstacles that would be no challenge from the dogs perspective.

"For example, the dog will see a low beam that it could easily walk under, but recognises that it's human handler will be caused an injury if they continue to walk forward. The dog will then navigate the human safely around the beam."

I'm most interested in this one. This one indicates a higher level of reasoning that I wouldn't have really thought about ... but then I presume service dogs have a lot of training with spacial awareness and are maybe taught to think of their human as part of themselves when it comes to things like obstacles? I know "normal" dogs don't think about anyone else when it comes to getting through small things so it's really a training thing and not a natural thinking thing.

I wonder how they train for this? I think the spatial awareness is already there is all animals and people, people are remarkably good at adjusting this subconsciously for different situations. People learn to cope with things like high heels, or the use of a walking stick and these things become part of our embodiment in space. I wonder if the use of the special harness helps the dog feel as if the handler is part of their body?

[minimax]

"We've also seen lots of evidence which this research supports in our work with service or assistance dogs. They've shown us countless times they are capable of navigating a human who is sight impaired under or around obstacles that would be no challenge from the dogs perspective.

"For example, the dog will see a low beam that it could easily walk under, but recognises that it's human handler will be caused an injury if they continue to walk forward. The dog will then navigate the human safely around the beam."

I'm most interested in this one. This one indicates a higher level of reasoning that I wouldn't have really thought about ... but then I presume service dogs have a lot of training with spacial awareness and are maybe taught to think of their human as part of themselves when it comes to things like obstacles? I know "normal" dogs don't think about anyone else when it comes to getting through small things so it's really a training thing and not a natural thinking thing.

I wonder how they train for this? I think the spatial awareness is already there is all animals and people, people are remarkably good at adjusting this subconsciously for different situations. People learn to cope with things like high heels, or the use of a walking stick and these things become part of our embodiment in space. I wonder if the use of the special harness helps the dog feel as if the handler is part of their body?

I'd be interested in finding out. I just know from when Max was a little pup she would take great delight in squeezing out of elevator doors as soon as they were open wide enough for her, but of course there was no way I was fitting through that tiny gap with her, as much as she tried to get me through with her! Thinking about my welfare is the last thing on her mind :laugh:

[Christina]

I think most dog owners already knew all that.

The Lab with the pizza is nothing suprising. I had a cat years ago that could lift a pan lid with one paw, steal the contents with the other paw & drop the lid back down. I watched him do it through the crack in the partly open door when I couldn't figure it out.

[disintegratus]

Well, duh!! I'm pretty sure most dog owners have known this for as long as they've had dogs :laugh:

I know that while I'm in the house and awake (even if I'm sitting in my room with the door closed), I can leave whatever I want lying around, but god forbid I leave a bag of bread on the kitchen bench overnight. It took quite a few times of getting mad at my sister for finishing the bread and not replacing it before I figured that one out! Occasionally the pup still tries to sneak up on the bench while someone's home, but she hasn't grown a brain yet, she'll figure it out soon enough :laugh:

[Sheridan]

Really interesting article but I don't think dogs think they're human, I think they think we're dogs.

[mantis]

Really interesting article but I don't think dogs think they're human, I think they think we're dogs.

ROFL, I agree.

Nothing in that study reveals anything us dog owners didn't know already.

[m-j]

http://www.news.com.au/national/uk-research-finds-dogs-take-an-owners-point-of-view-into-consideration-when-carrying-out-tasks/story-fndo4bst-1226579822052

THEY swear their pooch understands them and now devoted dog owners appear to have been proven right - scientists have shown what they claim is dogs factoring in a human point of view.

Research found dogs forbidden from stealing a snack will take food when they think you can't see them. It proves, the scientists say, that the dog first considered what a human could see before breaking the rules.

The UK research involved putting dogs in rooms which were dark and rooms which were lit. They discovered the dogs were four times more likely to disobey a command not to steal food left in the room when the room was dark. They acted the same, regardless of whether someone was in the room.

"That's incredible because it implies dogs understand the human can't see them, meaning they might understand the human perspective," Dr Juliane Kaminski, from the University of Portsmouth's psychology department said.

"Clearly the dogs take the social situation into account before they take any action. It suggests the dogs are looking at the food from the human perspective, as well as their own, before acting."Sydney animal behaviourist Mali Rolph said it mirrored her experience with "counter surfing", where dogs would steal food from kitchen counters, often when the owner's back was turned.

"Labradors are notorious for it -we had one Lab that was clever enough to steal two pieces of pizza from a closed pizza box. He did it so secretively, the box re-closed on itself when he was done," Ms Rolph said.

"We've also seen lots of evidence which this research supports in our work with service or assistance dogs. They've shown us countless times they are capable of navigating a human who is sight impaired under or around obstacles that would be no challenge from the dogs perspective.

"For example, the dog will see a low beam that it could easily walk under, but recognises that it's human handler will be caused an injury if they continue to walk forward. The dog will then navigate the human safely around the beam."

Dogs are very good observers and are opportunists so this doesn't surprise me. Dogs learn through model rival training so they can observe and copy, therefore I don't see why they can't observe and then jump through observed loopholes when the opportunity and need arises.

I was talking to a lady with impaired vision whose guide dog was running her into things and the retraining consisted of banging the object (she ran into) hard and reprimanding the dog, her words were "scaring the dog with the object to make it aware of it". So I don't think it is innate, like dogs observing and being opportunists, they do need to be shown somehow.

[BlackJaq]

I think a lot of that may simply have been learnt by experience. The dog gets caught and reprimanded if you can see it. It doesn't when you don't. Dogs aren't stupid, the "bing" moment will arrive sooner or later.

"We've also seen lots of evidence which this research supports in our work with service or assistance dogs. They've shown us countless times they are capable of navigating a human who is sight impaired under or around obstacles that would be no challenge from the dogs perspective.

"For example, the dog will see a low beam that it could easily walk under, but recognises that it's human handler will be caused an injury if they continue to walk forward. The dog will then navigate the human safely around the beam."

I'm most interested in this one. This one indicates a higher level of reasoning that I wouldn't have really thought about ... but then I presume service dogs have a lot of training with spacial awareness and are maybe taught to think of their human as part of themselves when it comes to things like obstacles? I know "normal" dogs don't think about anyone else when it comes to getting through small things so it's really a training thing and not a natural thinking thing.

I wonder how they train for this? I think the spatial awareness is already there is all animals and people, people are remarkably good at adjusting this subconsciously for different situations. People learn to cope with things like high heels, or the use of a walking stick and these things become part of our embodiment in space. I wonder if the use of the special harness helps the dog feel as if the handler is part of their body?

I found this very interesting as well. My horse is extremely aware of the fact that she can fit under certain obstacles (branches and such) but I cannot when I am riding her. She has adjusted her awareness to include me and will not walk close enough to trees for my legs to get caught or under low enough branches that I will not fit under (unless I specifically direct her to take that path, then I will lie down low over her neck or whatever).

I did not teach her this purposely but rather we got caught on things (gate posts) and I guess she felt the pull on the saddle/on her back and also I might have cussed a bit lol She obviously got used to leaving that bit of extra space, even without me training for it specifically. No idea if this might work the same way with dogs since you are not in as close a physical contact with them (i.e. if you run into a beam they probably won't feel it at the same time unlike the horse when the leg/stirrup gets caught)

Edited February 21, 2013 by BlackJaq