Rehoming Rescue Dogs - How To Enforce Desexing ?

[brutus]

hello,

I have managed to find homes for some little jrt x pups that I rescued from a clinic I am currently working at, but now am just trying to work out the best way to enforce desexing at 6 months of age. I was thinking about not signing over microchip paperwork until desexing certificate is produced at 6 months of age, but am a bit worried should they get lost as I will be overseas very soon.

Is there a contract or anything that I can use ? Does anyone have any ideas ?

I have screened the homes to the best of my ability, but just want to make sure that I am not contributing to the unwanted animal population. I would provide desexing vouchers but these pups are going all over the country.

I would desex these pups myself prior to rehoming, but they are only just 6-7 weeks old (& barely 1kg) and so I would much rather wait.

Thanks in advance.

Edited to add that all pups are boys.

Edited February 15, 2013 by brutus

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Vasectomies for the boys. There is no easy answer for the girls except to home to people who have a track record of not breeding irresponsibly.

[megan_]

Add $150 to the price and refund on proof of desexing. Given they're a small breed I'd most probably get them desexed before they leave

[WreckitWhippet]

Vasectomies for the boys. There is no easy answer for the girls except to home to people who have a track record of not breeding irresponsibly.

what she says. Tubal ligation for the girls and vasectomy for the boys and you'll never have to worry about them breeding .

Once they are out of your care, you have not a hope in hell of enforcing any kind of desexing contract.

ETA: it is illegal in NSW to withhold microchip papers from a new owner and you must submitt them paperwork to transfer ownership, within 14 days of the going to their new owners.

Edited February 15, 2013 by WreckitWhippet

[brutus]

Vasectomies for the boys. There is no easy answer for the girls except to home to people who have a track record of not breeding irresponsibly.

I imagine that an anaesthetic is still required for a vasectomy (& so they may as well be castrated instead) - is this correct ? I am hoping for an option that delays a general anaesthetic until they are a little bit older. 3/5 pups are going to vets & vet nurses, so it is only 2 pups specifically that I am concerned about (despite the fact that the people seem responsible etc.).

Edited February 15, 2013 by brutus

[WreckitWhippet]

Vasectomies for the boys. There is no easy answer for the girls except to home to people who have a track record of not breeding irresponsibly.

I imagine that an anaesthetic is still required for a vasectomy (& so they may as well be castrated instead). I am hoping for an option that delays a general anaesthetic until they are a little bit older. 3/5 pups are going to vets & vet nurses, so it is only 2 pups specifically that I am concerned about (despite the fact that the people seem responsible etc.).

Vet nurses are amongst some of the biggest back yard breeders around. Rehoming them to a vet nurse is no guarantee. The only way to ensure they cannot be bred form is to neuter or have a vasectomy performed.

Providing they are over KG in weight, there's no reason why they cannot be done before the are rehomed. The recovery time is very fast for babies.

[brutus]

thanks heaps - I normally do not have an issue with early desexing, but these pups have had a rough start to life and so I am not comfortable giving them a general anaesthetic them whilst they are so young. I was thinking about asking the owners to pre-pay for desexing at their local vet clinic and provide me with a receipt prior to pick-up ? (as was not sure the legalities were with taking money and refunding it once proof of desexing has been provided).

[brutus]

Vasectomies for the boys. There is no easy answer for the girls except to home to people who have a track record of not breeding irresponsibly.

I imagine that an anaesthetic is still required for a vasectomy (& so they may as well be castrated instead). I am hoping for an option that delays a general anaesthetic until they are a little bit older. 3/5 pups are going to vets & vet nurses, so it is only 2 pups specifically that I am concerned about (despite the fact that the people seem responsible etc.).

Vet nurses are amongst some of the biggest back yard breeders around. Rehoming them to a vet nurse is no guarantee. The only way to ensure they cannot be bred form is to neuter or have a vasectomy performed.

Providing they are over KG in weight, there's no reason why they cannot be done before the are rehomed. The recovery time is very fast for babies.

These are vet nurses I have worked with for over 7 years, so I trust them entirely (plus I work with them so I will know if the dogs are not desexed). These pups are right between 800g-1kg at the moment. As I said, I am an advocate for early desexing (in such situations), but do not think it is the best option in this scenario. I am confused by what is meant by a vasectomy ?? Have never heard of this being done (but would consider it). Assume what you mean is something different to surgical castration ?

Edited February 15, 2013 by brutus

[SkySoaringMagpie]

For me the issue is not the GA but the associated health risks of mucking about with hormones. That's the beauty of any solution that preserves the natural hormonal state but removes the option to breed irresponsibly.

However, as these are Jacks destined to be pets, I would be more comfortable with just neutering. Would be different if they were danes, or sighthounds but I agree with WIW that contracts are worth nothing unless they can and will be enforced. The vast majority of us are not in a position where we can afford a phalanx of lawyers to enforce a well written civil contract.

So, as you can't enforce desexing, and once they leave your hands it is out of your control, that is why most rescues consider that the risks associated with desexing are lower than the risks associated with letting someone BYB.

Edited February 15, 2013 by SkySoaringMagpie

[WreckitWhippet]

thanks heaps - I normally do not have an issue with early desexing, but these pups have had a rough start to life and so I am not comfortable giving them a general anaesthetic them whilst they are so young. I was thinking about asking the owners to pre-pay for desexing at their local vet clinic and provide me with a receipt prior to pick-up ? (as was not sure the legalities were with taking money and refunding it once proof of desexing has been provided).

well hold onto them until they are old enough and well enough to be put under GA. If they aren't well enough for a GA, then they aren't well enough to be rehomed

[mita]

I was thinking about asking the owners to pre-pay for desexing at their local vet clinic

I've heard of a rescue where the negotiated contract has been that the appointment for the later desexing is made before the pups leave for their new homes. So the date is set. A reminder note can be sent out a week or so before that appointment. Not sure if pre-payment is made when the appointment is made.

But if it were at your own clinic, maybe give a discount if & when the new owner honors the agreement. That could be an extra incentive.

Edited February 15, 2013 by mita

[brutus]

oh ok - my issue is most certainly with the anaesthetic due to their size (& this has been backed up by 3 senior vets at the clinic I am at). They are otherwise healthy, and are ok to go to their new homes in 1-2 weeks.

I think I might contact the new owners prior to the time they pick them up and ask them to pre-pay for desexing at their local clinic (or at least ask if I can contact their vet for a reference). In a perfect world I would desex them at the clinic I work at, but this is not possible as I am going overseas, and the pups are not all going to stay in the area where I work.

I appreciate that people have different opinions regarding this matter, but please bear in mind that I am not asking for an opinion as to whether the pups are able to have an anaesthetic (+ you are not aware as to all the background with this particular litter) - I was purely asking for advice regarding alternatives.

Thank you for all of your help - much appreciated.

Edited February 15, 2013 by brutus

[mita]

It's not just an issue of pre-paying .... actually make sure the owner has made an appointment date for later on when the desexing will be done At their local vet. That's a condition for the pup leaving you. And it gives you an opportunity to send a reminder notice a week or so before.

Just saw that you'll be going overseas. Arrange then that someone else will send that reminder notice for you, when the time comes.

This all is the best you can humanly do.

In general... there was a paper about early desexing prepared by UQ (Prof Jacqui Rand). It said there was support for early desexing for shelter/rescue animals. BUT the concern was high risk for safety. If vets had assurance of safer techniques, they would be for it. Prof Rand concluded that the techniques which would make early desexing safer, should be taught to vet students. A good read:

http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/15309finalreport.pdf

Edited February 15, 2013 by mita

[brutus]

It's not just an issue of pre-paying .... actually make sure the owner has made an appointment date for later on when the desexing will be done That's a condition for the pup leaving you. And it gives you an opportunity to send a reminder notice a week or so before.

yeah its a good idea - thanks. should be doable as its really only the 2 pups that I need to keep a really close eye on. thanks :)

[mita]

It's not just an issue of pre-paying .... actually make sure the owner has made an appointment date for later on when the desexing will be done That's a condition for the pup leaving you. And it gives you an opportunity to send a reminder notice a week or so before.

yeah its a good idea - thanks. should be doable as its really only the 2 pups that I need to keep a really close eye on. thanks :)

You're welcome. I nicked it from one of the rescues! :)

[Dogsfevr]

Pre paying for spaying isn't going to work unless you apply a set time frame

Our pups are sold on spay contract & date must be done unless other wise notified of a reason why it can't be (more the girls ins season).

We hold a bond that is returned .

It is all clearly stated in our sales contract that they sign .

[brutus]

Pre paying for spaying isn't going to work unless you apply a set time frame

Our pups are sold on spay contract & date must be done unless other wise notified of a reason why it can't be (more the girls ins season).

We hold a bond that is returned .

It is all clearly stated in our sales contract that they sign .

that is exactly what I was thinking of.. but wasn't sure how to work it all out. Do you do the same thing for male dogs (all these pups are male). Would you mind providing me with more info at all (e.g. how much bond etc). Feel free to PM me instead. Really appreciate your input.

Edited February 15, 2013 by brutus

[WreckitWhippet]

rehoming dogs and puppies that are not desexed is not "rescue"

[tdierikx]

Are these the pups you asked for help with in the rescue forums?

You can't legally enforce the actual desexing once the pups are gone from your care - whether or not it's been pre paid by the new owner. They can simply just not turn up for the desexing if they wish.

If they had gone to reputable rescue, then this would never have been an issue, as reputable rescue wouldn't have even advertised them for adoption until they had been desexed.

T.

[Greytmate]

Are these the pups you asked for help with in the rescue forums? How

You can't legally enforce the actual desexing once the pups are gone from your care - whether or not it's been pre paid by the new owner. They can simply just not turn up for the desexing if they wish.

If they had gone to reputable rescue, then this would never have been an issue, as reputable rescue wouldn't have even advertised them for adoption until they had been desexed.

T.

Thats right.

You cannot control anything people do after they get a dog.

If they want an undesexed dog they will buy one and will not worry about whatever they told you or claiming a deposit back. Rescue dogs are only valued at two or three hundred dollars, and you may have difficulty charging more to cover a refundable deposit.

You will miss out on buyers expecting rescue dogs to have had their work done and attract people who want an entire dog.

As somebody already said, if a dog is unsuitable to desex, its unsuitable to rehome.