Aggressive Dog

[Kirislin]

I have just a quick read and I can't believe how involved and how much you know about someone who is just a customer (and has only been for about 8 months.

I have had clients for years and don't know this much about them..

It all sounds a bit out there to me.

I dont think it's strange, you can find out alot about a person if you talk to them and listen to what they have to say.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Kirislin

[RiverStar-Aura]

I really hope your customer is taking in all the advice you're collecting for him. With all the problems with dogs in the media as of late, he'll need to work extra hard. I hope that even though he's fighting the dangerous dog conviction that he starts abiding by its ruling -- ie putting the muzzle on his dog rather than holding it or carrying it with him. This is not just for his protection but for the protection of others around him. Anything can happen -- just because he always keeps his dog leashed doesn't mean it can't break free and hurt someone or another dog.

Please don't post photos here on his behalf, regardless of whether you have his permission or not. Someone could come onto this forum, recognise his dog and report it referencing everything you've described in this thread -- the fact that he's injured, resulting in death, another dog could be cause for him to be destroyed. The forum is free so you could always tell him about it and he can join and post on his own accord.

[M United]

I hope so to im trying to help him so he doesn't lose his dogs and more importantly no other animal or person gets hurt or killed.

I wont post any photos. Just curious, once a dog has been labelled a nuisance or dangerous doesn't the public have access to the dogs photo and all information by ringing up the council? I would personally like to know of any dangerous dogs in my area so i know to keep clear of them, i have never had to do this though so i don't know.

[Greytmate]

Anyhow with the not being able to let the dog off the leash in a park, personally that would hurt me as i love seeing our dog run her legs off in the park and play with all the other dogs. I get so much enjoyment out of it. Of course you would love your dog even if you cant let them off a leash, they are your friend for life but the park is a big thing for me.

Then you should possibly reconsider your own plans to buy an amstaff and think about buying a breed that is more suited to running around a park and playing with all the other dogs.

Why would i not allow an amstaff to play with other dogs? My current family small dog has no issues playing with staffys, and a fair few friends of mine own english staffys and i really enjoy that breed. Going to the park is something i enjoy doing. But just to clarify something if i had a dog for whatever reason couldn't be taken to the park then i will deal with that, its not all just about the park.

Make up your mind. You will deal with it but it would hurt you? Bullbreeds need careful socialisation and should be encouraged to be calm around strange dogs at a park. You are going to end up with a dangerous dog as well unless you buy a breed to suit what you want to do with it. And this will be all your own fault.

I hope so to im trying to help him so he doesn't lose his dogs and more importantly no other animal or person gets hurt or killed.

I wont post any photos. Just curious, once a dog has been labelled a nuisance or dangerous doesn't the public have access to the dogs photo and all information by ringing up the council? I would personally like to know of any dangerous dogs in my area so i know to keep clear of them, i have never had to do this though so i don't know.

No. It's none of your business.

Because this man has told you his dog has been declared dangerous, encourage him to follow the law and report him if you see his dog unmuzzled. That's all you can do.

[M United]

Anyhow with the not being able to let the dog off the leash in a park, personally that would hurt me as i love seeing our dog run her legs off in the park and play with all the other dogs. I get so much enjoyment out of it. Of course you would love your dog even if you cant let them off a leash, they are your friend for life but the park is a big thing for me.

Then you should possibly reconsider your own plans to buy an amstaff and think about buying a breed that is more suited to running around a park and playing with all the other dogs.

Why would i not allow an amstaff to play with other dogs? My current family small dog has no issues playing with staffys, and a fair few friends of mine own english staffys and i really enjoy that breed. Going to the park is something i enjoy doing. But just to clarify something if i had a dog for whatever reason couldn't be taken to the park then i will deal with that, its not all just about the park.

Make up your mind. You will deal with it but it would hurt you? Bullbreeds need careful socialisation and should be encouraged to be calm around strange dogs at a park. You are going to end up with a dangerous dog as well unless you buy a breed to suit what you want to do with it. And this will be all your own fault.

I hope so to im trying to help him so he doesn't lose his dogs and more importantly no other animal or person gets hurt or killed.

I wont post any photos. Just curious, once a dog has been labelled a nuisance or dangerous doesn't the public have access to the dogs photo and all information by ringing up the council? I would personally like to know of any dangerous dogs in my area so i know to keep clear of them, i have never had to do this though so i don't know.

No. It's none of your business.

Because this man has told you his dog has been declared dangerous, encourage him to follow the law and report him if you see his dog unmuzzled. That's all you can do.

I see a lot of your posts go off topic. Best to stick to what this thread is about.

I have encouraged him to follow the law but i'm also trying to help him deal with the issues his having. If you disagree with this that is your opinion, mine is to help him as much as i can.

[Greytmate]

Anyhow with the not being able to let the dog off the leash in a park, personally that would hurt me as i love seeing our dog run her legs off in the park and play with all the other dogs. I get so much enjoyment out of it. Of course you would love your dog even if you cant let them off a leash, they are your friend for life but the park is a big thing for me.

Then you should possibly reconsider your own plans to buy an amstaff and think about buying a breed that is more suited to running around a park and playing with all the other dogs.

Why would i not allow an amstaff to play with other dogs? My current family small dog has no issues playing with staffys, and a fair few friends of mine own english staffys and i really enjoy that breed. Going to the park is something i enjoy doing. But just to clarify something if i had a dog for whatever reason couldn't be taken to the park then i will deal with that, its not all just about the park.

Make up your mind. You will deal with it but it would hurt you? Bullbreeds need careful socialisation and should be encouraged to be calm around strange dogs at a park. You are going to end up with a dangerous dog as well unless you buy a breed to suit what you want to do with it. And this will be all your own fault.

I hope so to im trying to help him so he doesn't lose his dogs and more importantly no other animal or person gets hurt or killed.

I wont post any photos. Just curious, once a dog has been labelled a nuisance or dangerous doesn't the public have access to the dogs photo and all information by ringing up the council? I would personally like to know of any dangerous dogs in my area so i know to keep clear of them, i have never had to do this though so i don't know.

No. It's none of your business.

Because this man has told you his dog has been declared dangerous, encourage him to follow the law and report him if you see his dog unmuzzled. That's all you can do.

I see a lot of your posts go off topic. Best to stick to what this thread is about.

I have encouraged him to follow the law but i'm also trying to help him deal with the issues his having. If you disagree with this that is your opinion, mine is to help him as much as i can.

I see a lot of your posts have no idea about dogs, and you are in no position to dictate how a topic progresses if you keep adding more information.

You can't help him deal with his dog's issues. they are serious and dangerous. You can't help this person and are not helping him, except by giving him somebody to talk to.

And you should learn from this and buy a dog that suits your lifestyle, not buy a breed that is unsuitable for what you say you want to be able to do. Or you will end up with a dangerous dog too.

[Staffyluv]

Bull breed types of dogs are not for everyone. I know they look amazing (not everyone will agree with me here) but there is so much more to them than the way they look.

I know a lot won't agree with me however in my opinion, they are not a breed for a novice owner (someone who has not had experience with dogs). Seeing dogs playing and taking one for a walk is not considered experience to me.

I love them so much I used to recommend them to everyone - I don't anymore because there are just so many now that end up with owners who really have no idea how to deal with them - then they end up in the pound because they have become destructive in the backyard/house or worse.

I have had a few Staffordshire Bull Terriers over the years and I currently have a staffy cross boy.

I thought I had a reasonable handle on novice dog training and my previous dogs never had any real issues.

My current boy has been a total challenge from day one.

He was shy and quiet when we first picked him up but turns out he is far from shy. He is not aggressive but his full on behaviour and play style could very easily make other dogs unhappy and tense. This could result in an altercation in a leash free park environment.

Their play style is not for everyone. They can be easy and/or stubborn and they are very strong dog.

I think it is great that you are trying to help your customer. To me it looks like you have done all you can - it is really up to him as it would seem that he has all the information he needs to get help.

[Staffyluv]

I have just a quick read and I can't believe how involved and how much you know about someone who is just a customer (and has only been for about 8 months.

I have had clients for years and don't know this much about them..

It all sounds a bit out there to me.

I dont think it's strange, you can find out alot about a person if you talk to them and listen to what they have to say.

It's not now M United explained that his customer has no other friends and spends 2 hours a day at their shop..

Honestly, if I spent 2 hours a day with someone - I would consider them a friend (not a customer).. I guess it is all in the wording :)

[M United]

I am replying to posts like yourself even if they go off topic.

Im not claiming to know all about dogs, which is one of the reasons i started this topic to get views, advice and help from people who know a lot more then me. And a fair few people have give me great feed back and i thank them all. But you telling me i have no idea about dogs doesn't add anything to this thread. If you tell me what advise i have given him that's wrong that would be great. I think i have given him some good advice and help. This is also a good learning curve for me also, if i ever encounter situations like this i will be prepared for them in the future. If i take your advice i will not progress.

You do not know my lifestyle how can you tell me this breed is not right for me and the dog will be dangerous? I have been around staffys for years just never owned one. When i get my next dog i will go to behavioural lessons for me and the dog, to make sure i get things right. One thing about me i dont muck around i do everything proper and want to learn.

[Greytmate]

I am replying to posts like yourself even if they go off topic.

Im not claiming to know all about dogs, which is one of the reasons i started this topic to get views, advice and help from people who know a lot more then me. And a fair few people have give me great feed back and i thank them all. But you telling me i have no idea about dogs doesn't add anything to this thread. If you tell me what advise i have given him that's wrong that would be great. I think i have given him some good advice and help. This is also a good learning curve for me also, if i ever encounter situations like this i will be prepared for them in the future. If i take your advice i will not progress.

You do not know my lifestyle how can you tell me this breed is not right for me and the dog will be dangerous? I have been around staffys for years just never owned one. When i get my next dog i will go to behavioural lessons for me and the dog, to make sure i get things right. One thing about me i dont muck around i do everything proper and want to learn.

I don't care what you claim to know about dogs, you don't know enough to decide whether other people are on topic or not. I'm not even sure how you think you are going to help. The whole community would be much better off with dogs like this muzzled and on lead at all times, it's not helpful to suggest anything else. You have been given names of trainers and that's all the helpful advice you are ever going to get here about how to treat aggression in a particular dog. The dog is still dangerous and has to be muzzled regardless of what trainer is seen..

I know about your lifestyle and what you want to do with your new dog, because you told us. Want to read back and check? You can get all the behavioural lessons you want, but if you let an amstaff offlead in the park to play with other dogs, your lessons won't really count for much, you will lose control of the situation and your dog's instincts may come to the fore. That is why dogs are declared dangerous.

You need to forget about the idea that dogs behaviour is the sum of the owner's efforts and intentions and realise that different dog breeds have different genetic tendencies. It's how you manage the dog more than how you train it, because mismanagement will see your dog learning lots of stuff you might not want it to learn. You have seen an example of what can happen, so you need to think carefully before you buy a dog too. You have told us you like dogs to be offlead and play with all the other dogs, so how about you take some advice to keep yourself out trouble too? Don't buy a breed that is known to have a 'play style' that can end up causing fights. You will find that many people will clear out of the park and do anything to avoid your dog playing with theirs.

[M United]

I am replying to posts like yourself even if they go off topic.

Im not claiming to know all about dogs, which is one of the reasons i started this topic to get views, advice and help from people who know a lot more then me. And a fair few people have give me great feed back and i thank them all. But you telling me i have no idea about dogs doesn't add anything to this thread. If you tell me what advise i have given him that's wrong that would be great. I think i have given him some good advice and help. This is also a good learning curve for me also, if i ever encounter situations like this i will be prepared for them in the future. If i take your advice i will not progress.

You do not know my lifestyle how can you tell me this breed is not right for me and the dog will be dangerous? I have been around staffys for years just never owned one. When i get my next dog i will go to behavioural lessons for me and the dog, to make sure i get things right. One thing about me i dont muck around i do everything proper and want to learn.

I don't care what you claim to know about dogs, you don't know enough to decide whether other people are on topic or not. I'm not even sure how you think you are going to help. The whole community would be much better off with dogs like this muzzled and on lead at all times, it's not helpful to suggest anything else. You have been given names of trainers and that's all the helpful advice you are ever going to get here about how to treat aggression in a particular dog. The dog is still dangerous and has to be muzzled regardless of what trainer is seen..

I know about your lifestyle and what you want to do with your new dog, because you told us. Want to read back and check? You can get all the behavioural lessons you want, but if you let an amstaff offlead in the park to play with other dogs, your lessons won't really count for much, you will lose control of the situation and your dog's instincts may come to the fore. That is why dogs are declared dangerous.

You need to forget about the idea that dogs behaviour is the sum of the owner's efforts and intentions and realise that different dog breeds have different genetic tendencies. It's how you manage the dog more than how you train it, because mismanagement will see your dog learning lots of stuff you might not want it to learn. You have seen an example of what can happen, so you need to think carefully before you buy a dog too. You have told us you like dogs to be offlead and play with all the other dogs, so how about you take some advice to keep yourself out trouble too? Don't buy a breed that is known to have a 'play style' that can end up causing fights. You will find that many people will clear out of the park and do anything to avoid your dog playing with theirs.

I have told him to keep his dog on a muzzle. Its up to him to do it. But what im trying to do for him is to help his dog. Even if his dog is on a muzzle it still wants to go dogs. If his dog accidently gets off the leash for whatever reason even with a muzzle on he still can do damage to dogs or skateboarders. Im trying to help his dogs behaviour to try filter that aggressive behaviour out if its possible so it doesn't hurt anyone so there is no incidents ever again. If his dog has one more issue it will surely be pts. Im not implying to "fix" his dog then leave it off the muzzle if that's what your thinking. I want to help him change its behaviour and leave him leashed and muzzled after that, because even with ongoing training its only takes 1 snap to possibly hurt or kill an animal or person. I understand that.

Also i take your advice about leaving amstaffs off leash at parks. I love taking my current family dog to the park but being with a dog is not all about the park to me. Taking your advice if/when i do get an amstaff i will not leave it off leash if there are other dogs at the park. This is the input i like, learning things. Cheers.

[Rebanne]

I have told him to keep his dog on a muzzle. Its up to him to do it. But what im trying to do for him is to help his dog. Even if his dog is on a muzzle it still wants to go dogs. If his dog accidently gets off the leash for whatever reason even with a muzzle on he still can do damage to dogs or skateboarders. Im trying to help his dogs behaviour to try filter that aggressive behaviour out if its possible so it doesn't hurt anyone so there is no incidents ever again. If his dog has one more issue it will surely be pts. Im not implying to "fix" his dog then leave it off the muzzle if that's what your thinking. I want to help him change its behaviour and leave him leashed and muzzled after that, because even with ongoing training its only takes 1 snap to possibly hurt or kill an animal or person. I understand that.

You can not help this dog, it is beyond your knowledge. The dog is dangerous and should be PTS.

[Staffyluv]

I am replying to posts like yourself even if they go off topic.

Im not claiming to know all about dogs, which is one of the reasons i started this topic to get views, advice and help from people who know a lot more then me. And a fair few people have give me great feed back and i thank them all. But you telling me i have no idea about dogs doesn't add anything to this thread. If you tell me what advise i have given him that's wrong that would be great. I think i have given him some good advice and help. This is also a good learning curve for me also, if i ever encounter situations like this i will be prepared for them in the future. If i take your advice i will not progress.

You do not know my lifestyle how can you tell me this breed is not right for me and the dog will be dangerous? I have been around staffys for years just never owned one. When i get my next dog i will go to behavioural lessons for me and the dog, to make sure i get things right. One thing about me i dont muck around i do everything proper and want to learn.

No where in my reply did I suggest YOU have no idea about dogs.

I did say, that bull breed type dogs are not for everyone (that is very applicable to the topic of your customer having a big bull breed type dog and not being able to control it - also your questions in this and other threads relating to you not knowing much about Amstaff and SBT and thinking about getting one)..

I also DID NOT say this breed isn't for YOU.. I said it isn't for everyone. Your customer is a good example of this (still on topic).

I also never said the breed was dangerous - did you even read my reply??

Effectively what I did say was that the breeds are not for novice owners and I stand by that comment.

They don't need behavioural lessons - they need a confident owner who will train and socialise them.

For the record, socialising is NOT going to an off leash park and letting a dog run riot amongst it all.

There really is no reason to be rude - I was just offering my opinion and some advice with regard to your posts and questions.

This is a public forum that you have posted on and you will get many different views and opinions - what you take from that is entirely up to you.

[M United]

Fair enough. Thank goodness im not in that situation.

[Greytmate]

Thanks for taking this all on board M United. We all just want to see the right dog with the right owner, so owners are happy and all dogs are safe and happy.

The dog and owner that this thread are about are in a very unfortunate situation. It's not black and white, and good intentions can't always fix problems. While he walks his dog around the inner-sydney environment, this dog will be continually provoked to aggression.

[D'smum]

I remember hearing once that the only thing that you'll ever hear two dog trainers agree on is what the third one is doing wrong...this may be an exaggeration but does have a grain of truth to it. If you are passing on to him every piece of information given to you, as well as handing him Dog Whisperer Dvds to watch, there is a very good chance that you might be overwhelming him. Recommend a good trainer and let them take the reins from there. The opinions of people that have not SEEN this dog or its alleged issues may do more harm than good.

I dont doubt that your intentions are good but think about how much good you can reasonably do here. People that dont have knowledge of dog aggression, in a situation like this, are as useful as someone that doesnt know first-aid "helping" the paramedics at the scene of an accident.

[M United]

I am replying to posts like yourself even if they go off topic.

Im not claiming to know all about dogs, which is one of the reasons i started this topic to get views, advice and help from people who know a lot more then me. And a fair few people have give me great feed back and i thank them all. But you telling me i have no idea about dogs doesn't add anything to this thread. If you tell me what advise i have given him that's wrong that would be great. I think i have given him some good advice and help. This is also a good learning curve for me also, if i ever encounter situations like this i will be prepared for them in the future. If i take your advice i will not progress.

You do not know my lifestyle how can you tell me this breed is not right for me and the dog will be dangerous? I have been around staffys for years just never owned one. When i get my next dog i will go to behavioural lessons for me and the dog, to make sure i get things right. One thing about me i dont muck around i do everything proper and want to learn.

No where in my reply did I suggest YOU have no idea about dogs.

I did say, that bull breed type dogs are not for everyone (that is very applicable to the topic of your customer having a big bull breed type dog and not being able to control it - also your questions in this and other threads relating to you not knowing much about Amstaff and SBT and thinking about getting one)..

I also DID NOT say this breed isn't for YOU.. I said it isn't for everyone. Your customer is a good example of this (still on topic).

I also never said the breed was dangerous - did you even read my reply??

Effectively what I did say was that the breeds are not for novice owners and I stand by that comment.

They don't need behavioural lessons - they need a confident owner who will train and socialise them.

For the record, socialising is NOT going to an off leash park and letting a dog run riot amongst it all.

There really is no reason to be rude - I was just offering my opinion and some advice with regard to your posts and questions.

This is a public forum that you have posted on and you will get many different views and opinions - what you take from that is entirely up to you.

That message wasn't reply to your message. It was to greytmate:

"I see a lot of your posts have no idea about dogs, and you are in no position to dictate how a topic progresses if you keep adding more information.

You can't help him deal with his dog's issues. they are serious and dangerous. You can't help this person and are not helping him, except by giving him somebody to talk to.

And you should learn from this and buy a dog that suits your lifestyle, not buy a breed that is unsuitable for what you say you want to be able to do. Or you will end up with a dangerous dog too."

[M United]

Thanks for taking this all on board M United. We all just want to see the right dog with the right owner, so owners are happy and all dogs are safe and happy.

The dog and owner that this thread are about are in a very unfortunate situation. It's not black and white, and good intentions can't always fix problems. While he walks his dog around the inner-sydney environment, this dog will be continually provoked to aggression.

I appreciate that. I will recommend the behaviourist to him and let him take it from there.

Also a little side note about me, with my current dog it gets walked on the streets during the week and on the weekend again on the streets and i only go to the park twice on the weekend. So i dont live at the park. Also the park near me during the day has no one in it, its really fantastic. In the afternoon that is when the dogs go.

Edited February 13, 2013 by M United

[Katdogs]

Whereabouts in Sydney, M United? Just wondering, I might have met your friend and his dog.

[M United]

Whereabouts in Sydney, M United? Just wondering, I might have met your friend and his dog.

In the city.