Aggressive Dog

[Paganman]

Where i live a dog can be declared maenacing for just rushing at somebody doesnt matter if the persons walking running, on a bicycle or a skateboard wouldnt matter if the person was going to fast neither.It doesnt have to bite or growl just rushing up to anyone is an offense.

[persephone]

... the dog loses control. Like i said i think a muzzle would fix this.

No Muzzle will stop that instinctive reaction to fast-moving skateboards, or aggression to other dogs.

. A muzzle will lessen damage caused when a dog does attack

[M United]

My whole point was can it be trained and have a muzzle on after that and still be walked in the streets or will it eventually be pts.

that can only be decided by hiring the services and experience of a REPUTABLE and personally RECOMMENDED dog behaviour professional.

people here will be quite happy to recommend you someone who is honest and known personally by folks here ....and who will have no rash promises of a gauranteed 'fix' to entice gullible people.

I understand a fully agree with you. Just seems there is a fair few hot headed posters who think the dog should be PTS. My view is i think there is a chance it could be trained and muzzled but im not saying this is a gaurantee. I may be wrong and it might need to be pts in the end. And there is many posters have given me good information in this thread which i have to pass on to my customer after i print it off this weekend. After that its up to him if he wants to work with this dog and try resolve (if it can) any issues and abide by law or just plot along as normal and likely be pts.

[persephone]

this situation is not clear as day.

But it is .

The owner has a large dog which is reacting to certain things in a manner dangerous.

Clear as crystal.

A similar scenario has been discussed on here many times .

If council is involved, then that owner needs to follow rules.

If the owner wishes to fight the classification, then he needs to pay good money to an GOOD professional and get an assessment.

[M United]

... the dog loses control. Like i said i think a muzzle would fix this.

No Muzzle will stop that instinctive reaction to fast-moving skateboards, or aggression to other dogs.

. A muzzle will lessen damage caused when a dog does attack

Yes i know that is why i was hoping training could help this and have the muzzle on as backup so to speak just in case there is a situation where harm could happen to someone or something. I have never said anywhere that training will fix him and all will be hunky dory.

Also mind you if it is declared to dangerous and it cant be fixed i cant argue about the dog being pts. I dont think there should be any savage dogs roaming the streets. I would die if my dog was attacked by a dangerous dog so please understand that im just trying ot see if it can be helped im not 'backing him up".

Edited February 14, 2013 by M United

[persephone]

hot headed posters who think the dog should be PTS

That is my first thought as well , and I am no hot head .

An owner who is apparently suffering some sort of mental problem??

Limited income

Loves his dogs

will find it very hard to attend assessments/training ..

is finding it difficult to comply with the rules

has a very large dog who is aggressive/reactive.

Going to court can be stressful and expensive .

Having to cope with a tragedy if/when the dog attacks/injures another dog , or a person.would be intolerable

It needs to be weighed up ............. and if this person can not manage everything, then , yes, the dog can be gently PTS , instead of being taken away and impounded .

[M United]

hot headed posters who think the dog should be PTS

That is my first thought as well , and I am no hot head .

An owner who is apparently suffering some sort of mental problem??

Limited income

Loves his dogs

will find it very hard to attend assessments/training ..

is finding it difficult to comply with the rules

has a very large dog who is aggressive/reactive.

Going to court can be stressful and expensive .

Having to cope with a tragedy if/when the dog attacks/injures another dog , or a person.would be intolerable

It needs to be weighed up ............. and if this person can not manage everything, then , yes, the dog can be gently PTS , instead of being taken away and impounded .

Those highlighted points:

1) If doesn't do that it should be pts

2) same as above

3) he is going for free legal aid

If he is to carry on in his normal way the dog in my view should be pts. IF he is willing to give it his all and try fight for his dog and obey the law the dog should be given a chance.

[Greytmate]

He wants to appeal it and take his dog to court as he believes it is not dangerous because its gets on very well with humans. All the prosecution has to do is bring 3 randoms dogs in the court and there goes his case. Anyhow if/when he does go to court i wouldn't be suprised if the dog gets pts, because the judge will be able to judge his character very well and realize as posted above because he doesn't listen to the law there could be further issues. If its on a muzzle the whole time i personally thin the dog would be fine because like i said the dog calms down in seconds like nothing happened after it sees a dog or skateboard but at the moment its not on a muzzle which is worrying, a stubborn owner i suppose.

Goes to court?

I'm not an expert on NSW dog law, but this isn't a criminal matter that will be given court time. The dog was simply declared dangerous under the powers that council has. This declaration is valid in all eastern states of Australia.

Any appeal is about whether council followed procedure, and then this is investigated, and the appeal is only upheld if it's found that council did not follow procedure (and why wouldn't they?)

There is no courtroom or judge or 3 dogs or character assessment.

The dog has been declared dangerous based on what is was reported to have done. What it is known to have done. That's it. He must pay his fine and keep the dog under the prescribed conditions, regardless of any appeal or argument or appeal for assessment that he is considering taking.

He sounds like a person who is rambling on without having had any legal advice. So don't entertain his line of thought and urge him to get a lawyer if he wants advice, and keep the dog muzzled in the mean time.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Greytmate

[Red Fox]

Seriously..?

A shitload of people diagnosing aggression over the Internet based on the say-so of someone who seems to have little understanding of canine behaviour..?? you've got to be kidding me

OP, go tell your 'friend' to see a professional and have the dog properly assessed. If he wants to appeal a DD order than let him. What is it to you, or anyone else for that matter? If the dog is truly a menace I doubt the owner will be very successful.

A professional canine behaviourist who can physically assess IN PERSON the dog is the ONLY one qualified of giving you an answer on whether the dog can be trained/managed/rehabilitated. Any 'advice' given over the net is just a waste of time.

Steve Courtney is in NSW. I'm sure plenty of people here would recommend him: phone 02 4589 1195

Or try Craig Murray - Premier Dog Training: Phone 0408 113 874

It doesn't cost much to make a phone call..

[M United]

Seriously..?

A shitload of people diagnosing aggression over the Internet based on the say-so of someone who seems to have little understanding of canine behaviour..?? you've got to be kidding me

OP, go tell your 'friend' to see a professional and have the dog properly assessed. If he wants to appeal a DD order than let him. What is it to you, or anyone else for that matter? If the dog is truly a menace I doubt the owner will be very successful.

A professional canine behaviourist who can physically assess IN PERSON the dog is the ONLY one qualified of giving you an answer on whether the dog can be trained/managed/rehabilitated. Any 'advice' given over the net is just a waste of time.

Steve Courtney is in NSW. I'm sure plenty of people here would recommend him: phone 02 4589 1195

Or try Craig Murray - Premier Dog Training: Phone 0408 113 874

It doesn't cost much to make a phone call..

This was the point of the thread, to get advise from people who know a lot more then me so i can give this person some advise and its up to him. But people who are judging and saying he should be pts with no professional assessment is silly.

[M United]

He wants to appeal it and take his dog to court as he believes it is not dangerous because its gets on very well with humans. All the prosecution has to do is bring 3 randoms dogs in the court and there goes his case. Anyhow if/when he does go to court i wouldn't be suprised if the dog gets pts, because the judge will be able to judge his character very well and realize as posted above because he doesn't listen to the law there could be further issues. If its on a muzzle the whole time i personally thin the dog would be fine because like i said the dog calms down in seconds like nothing happened after it sees a dog or skateboard but at the moment its not on a muzzle which is worrying, a stubborn owner i suppose.

Goes to court?

I'm not an expert on NSW dog law, but this isn't a criminal matter that will be given court time. The dog was simply declared dangerous under the powers that council has. This declaration is valid in all eastern states of Australia.

Any appeal is about whether council followed procedure, and then this is investigated, and the appeal is only upheld if it's found that council did not follow procedure (and why wouldn't they?)

There is no courtroom or judge or 3 dogs or character assessment.

The dog has been declared dangerous based on what is was reported to have done. What it is known to have done. That's it. He must pay his fine and keep the dog under the prescribed conditions, regardless of any appeal or argument or appeal for assessment that he is considering taking.

He sounds like a person who is rambling on without having had any legal advice. So don't entertain his line of thought and urge him to get a lawyer if he wants advice, and keep the dog muzzled in the mean time.

Im not sure on the law that's what he wants to do. If this cant happen and he has to comply then that's what he has to do.

[raineth]

RidgieMal I completely agree with you about getting the owner and dog to a good behaviourist. Although if the owner isn't going to do this... Then I do lean toward the pts option as they don't appear to have the wherewithal to safely manage the dog.

The dog has attacked another dog that later died, so to me that dog is aggressive, or is it more complex than that?

[raineth]

Seriously..?

A shitload of people diagnosing aggression over the Internet based on the say-so of someone who seems to have little understanding of canine behaviour..?? you've got to be kidding me

OP, go tell your 'friend' to see a professional and have the dog properly assessed. If he wants to appeal a DD order than let him. What is it to you, or anyone else for that matter? If the dog is truly a menace I doubt the owner will be very successful.

A professional canine behaviourist who can physically assess IN PERSON the dog is the ONLY one qualified of giving you an answer on whether the dog can be trained/managed/rehabilitated. Any 'advice' given over the net is just a waste of time.

Steve Courtney is in NSW. I'm sure plenty of people here would recommend him: phone 02 4589 1195

Or try Craig Murray - Premier Dog Training: Phone 0408 113 874

It doesn't cost much to make a phone call..

This was the point of the thread, to get advise from people who know a lot more then me so i can give this person some advise and its up to him. But people who are judging and saying he should be pts with no professional assessment is silly.

Have you told him to contact Steve Courtney? I know I for one recommended him in this thread long ago. I guess if you've done that then this thread has done its job.

[Red Fox]

Seriously..?

A shitload of people diagnosing aggression over the Internet based on the say-so of someone who seems to have little understanding of canine behaviour..?? you've got to be kidding me

OP, go tell your 'friend' to see a professional and have the dog properly assessed. If he wants to appeal a DD order than let him. What is it to you, or anyone else for that matter? If the dog is truly a menace I doubt the owner will be very successful.

A professional canine behaviourist who can physically assess IN PERSON the dog is the ONLY one qualified of giving you an answer on whether the dog can be trained/managed/rehabilitated. Any 'advice' given over the net is just a waste of time.

Steve Courtney is in NSW. I'm sure plenty of people here would recommend him: phone 02 4589 1195

Or try Craig Murray - Premier Dog Training: Phone 0408 113 874

It doesn't cost much to make a phone call..

This was the point of the thread, to get advise from people who know a lot more then me so i can give this person some advise and its up to him. But people who are judging and saying he should be pts with no professional assessment is silly.

If you are going to put info out there on a public forum then you can expect people are going to give their opinion

I'm not judging. I haven't seen the dog, I haven't even read the whole thread..

Above are two numbers of people in your area that CAN and WILL be able to help you/your friend.

I'd suggest you pick up the phone and call them.

[Red Fox]

RidgieMal I completely agree with you about getting the owner and dog to a good behaviourist. Although if the owner isn't going to do this... Then I do lean toward the pts option as they don't appear to have the wherewithal to safely manage the dog.

The dog has attacked another dog that later died, so to me that dog is aggressive, or is it more complex than that?

I don't know, I haven't seen the dog. And even if I had I'm not qualified to make that assessment.

[Greytmate]

It's really sounding like this man is in a state of denial about his dog. I can understand that because it is very common for people to take any criticism of their dog personally. Especially given the agenda of many people to deny any genetic basis for behaviour and to blame the owner. As far as he is concerned, he loves his dog and he probably thinks others are to blame if the dog harms them. It would be hard for him to accept that his dog is 'bad' when there are so many good things about it.

So now you have advice for him to see a lawyer if he starts talking about appeal, names of good trainers, and the advice to obey the conditions of the declaration. If he is unwilling to take this advice from you, I would stop entertaining him in the shop and call council to report his dog for being unmuzzled. By starting this thread here you went to a lot of trouble to help this man, and hopefully are in a better position to help him now. Withdraw your support if he just wants to use you to listen to his whinging, it's not really fair on you.

[raineth]

What GM is saying above is so spot on I think. If he is just using you to whinge at then don't let him, as its an awful and stressful situation for you to be in.

[RiverStar-Aura]

The dog might not be able to bite, but if he's lunging at skateboarders, what happens when/if a skateboarder comes off their board into oncoming traffic because the dog has lunged at them? The dog hasn't done the damage but was the cause. A muzzle wouldn't stop this situation from happening.

Or even if the skateboarder comes off his board when travelling at high speed?

[Rebanne]

The dog might not be able to bite, but if he's lunging at skateboarders, what happens when/if a skateboarder comes off their board into oncoming traffic because the dog has lunged at them? The dog hasn't done the damage but was the cause. A muzzle wouldn't stop this situation from happening.

Or even if the skateboarder comes off his board when travelling at high speed?

It's the skateboarders fault of course.

[RiverStar-Aura]

The dog might not be able to bite, but if he's lunging at skateboarders, what happens when/if a skateboarder comes off their board into oncoming traffic because the dog has lunged at them? The dog hasn't done the damage but was the cause. A muzzle wouldn't stop this situation from happening.

Or even if the skateboarder comes off his board when travelling at high speed?

It's the skateboarders fault of course.

But of course! It's moments like these we need mister rolls eye back -- and some Minties wouldn't go astray either :laugh: