My Dear, Sweet Boy Is A Bit Of A 'lemon.'

[Jed]

Hi Trinabean, sorry to hear about Bruno, that is a bummer from hell

Hope you told the breeder?

Seems to me all the problems are caused by a compromised immune system. I have no idea about this, not having any lemons here - but I would maybe try a Chinest herbalist or a naturopath -- Robert McDowall in Sydney springs to mind.

That would probably work better than "conventional" treatment. I don't have a problem with vets, but sometimes other things help more.

Thanks Jed, I will consider natural therapies down the track a little bit. I'm waiting to see what the blood/urine/fecal tests come back with this week and will take it from there. I will give the elimination diet a shot too, as it's the only way to definatively work out which foods he can /can't tolerate. I've kept the breeder in the loop about the allergies and colitis. I haven't told them about the heart murmur yet. Is a grade 2 murmur something that can develop or would it have been there since puppyhood? I'm wondering why no vet has noticed it until now?

What he lacks in digestive skills he certainly makes up for in being a complete sweetie pie :)

Oh thanks TheLBD. Well yes, you've met him and he loves you to bits too. You are forevermore 'The awesome-orange-squeeky-ball-giver' :laugh:

Did the breeder say anything? Other dogs she owns/bred which were affected?

Heart murmur could have been there in puppyhood - but if no vet has picked it up, it was probably acquired later. The outcome does depend on the reason. I think you know about my cocker with a double sided murmur which caused vets to shake there heads and not make any predictions? He lived to 11 and it wasn't his heart which got him.

[Weasels]

Oh thanks TheLBD. Well yes, you've met him and he loves you to bits too. You are forevermore 'The awesome-orange-squeeky-ball-giver' :laugh:

it's a title I will wear with pride :laugh:

[trinabean]

Did the breeder say anything? Other dogs she owns/bred which were affected?

Heart murmur could have been there in puppyhood - but if no vet has picked it up, it was probably acquired later. The outcome does depend on the reason. I think you know about my cocker with a double sided murmur which caused vets to shake there heads and not make any predictions? He lived to 11 and it wasn't his heart which got him.

I haven't told the breeder about the heart murmur yet. As for the allergies and colitis, apparently they haven't had any history of that. Well, apart from his dam with a couple of foods (she gets itchy when fed lamb or beef). I only found that out after quite some time though, I had been keeping the breeder up to date. From their end, mine is the only pup in the litter with health problems.

And no, I didn't know that about your cocker spaniel. I think you are correct though, his heart murmur may not be a problem. To be honest, this is the first time a vet has had a really good listen to Bruno's heart that I can recall.

His GI issues are far more worrying at the moment. I'll be relieved if the cycle of refusing to eat/ diarrhoea and intermittant vomiting settles down...

[trinabean]

Oh thanks TheLBD. Well yes, you've met him and he loves you to bits too. You are forevermore 'The awesome-orange-squeeky-ball-giver' :laugh:

it's a title I will wear with pride :laugh:

:laugh:

[Daisys Mum]

I just had a thought ... Have you tried him with rabbit? years ago my long hair min Dacshund was diagnosed with IBD and was put on a diet of wild rabbit ... We had a farmer who would go out and get them us and then we would boil it up ... He loved it, it was the only meat he could eat ... This was in NZ though so I don't know how readily available wild rabbit is here.

Poor Bruno give Bruno a big hug from me :D

[Staffyluv]

Sorry Bruno isn't feeling well..

Some of us just end up with problem dogs one way or another.

Ollie (Purebred SBT) had skin allergies but we worked out it was a grass thing and it got worse if he attended the local park in spring and summer (we still used to go but washed him off when we got home).

When he was 2 he cracked the really big back molar eating a big bone - this was extracted when he was 4 (there was no need to do it before that).

When he was 6 he was diagnosed with kidney and bladder stones - an expensive ultrasound and operation, change of diet fixed that.

When he was 8 he was diagnosed with Mast Cell Tumours grade 2 with no clear margins and given 12-18 months to live.

With chemo and holistic treatment - another change of diet and lots of love, he lived another 6 years before asking for his wings on October 25th 2011..

We paid $150 for him from a 'breeder' that only had a couple of pups left and just wanted them gone..

I now have Ziggy and he is a bit sensitive to lots of fat in his diet and did get a bit itchy for a bit but it all seems to have worked out - hopefully my little pound mutt (amstaff cross) will stay as healthy as he looks.

I hope you can work it out with Bruno and get him well. I found the holistic vet gave great advice for diet and supplements over the years. They may not cure the dog but they certainly do help them stay well.

Good luck.

[WoofnHoof]

Has he had bloods done to test for for liver function? My shunt dog had GI issues which were a symptom among other things so I would check that.

Hmm, a good question WoofnHoof. The invoice says that the blood tests are 'CBC, biochemistry panel and electrolytes.' He also had urine taken for 'urinalysis' and a fecal sample to test for parasites (he is regularly wormed, but the vet mentioned parasites like Giardia that aren't killed by normal wormers). Is the liver function test a different blood test?

The vet called later on Friday to say that the blood results were back. Nothing was remarkable except that he had an elevated level of 'eosinophils.' This could indicate a parasite infection or it could just be because he has allergies. He was diagnosed and was being treated by a dermatologist for the allergies. We are still waiting for the results on the urine/ fecal tests. Thanks WoofnHoof. :)

A normal biochemistry result can pick up liver issues in the ALT levels but they don't always show up either so the one that is usually done to check liver function specifically is the bile acid test, they take blood when fasting and then after eating and compare the bile acid levels, that will tell you if the liver is doing it's job. Not all vet practices have come across liver shunts, I know mine hadn't so they didn't recognise it and it was misdiagnosed initially.

[Skye2]

Boxer colitis is well described unfortunately. There are some forums in the US that offer help. I have a bulldog that has multiple gastrointestinal problems. He had several admissions last year for abdo pain, vomiting, bloody diarrhoea. He has gastro oesophageal reflux which he takes Losec for and has this well under control after a number of years of vomiting up. He had a bout of pancreatitis which we hope was just a one off after me trying to stuff high fat foods into him to help him gain weight. He had to have his spleen removed as it was very misshapen and nodular at the same time they externally examined his bowel and found him to have several areas of thickening (mostly likely inflammatory bowel disease). He had a scope and his duodenum was very inflamed and on biopsy he had helicobacter and eosinophils.

Currently I have him the best he has been in a while. He seems to have one good week of eating and then a week of laying around miserable with bloody diarrhoea then back to eating ravenously. I have found him to be best with a higher dose of Losec 10 mg in the am 20 mg in the pm and slippery elm seems to be what has helped him best after numerous other medications. I now give him 400 mg in the am and 800 mg in the evening. His poo is now firm and formed Not saying it will work for you but it may be worth a try. I work for a human gastroenterologist and he feels that this most likely is what has helped. He often tells his patients to use it too. I have been using it for about 2 months now and initially I didn't see much improvement but now I actually think he has put on weight and is eating 2 meals a day. I just have him back on his regular food of Royal Canin Junior 1/2 a cup and read meat. He seems not to like chicken at all and will eat fish. I cannot give him any bones at all as this flare everything up massively.

Sorry story is a bit long but I feel your pain. Each day has been a struggle with his eating and people have blamed me and said he only eats badly because I have tried different foods but looking back he was like this as a pup and it has progressed to this point. I have 6 other dogs that all eat well and enjoy their food so I know it is "not me". Hang in their for the sake of your boy and I hope things turn around soon for you.

Regarding the heart murmur I had a fox terrier that was diagnosed with a heart murmur at age 14 grade 6/6 and she continued to live until age 18 albeit on medications.

Hugs to you and your beautiful boxer

[trinabean]

I just had a thought ... Have you tried him with rabbit? years ago my long hair min Dacshund was diagnosed with IBD and was put on a diet of wild rabbit ... We had a farmer who would go out and get them us and then we would boil it up ... He loved it, it was the only meat he could eat ... This was in NZ though so I don't know how readily available wild rabbit is here.

Poor Bruno give Bruno a big hug from me :D

Thanks Kiwigirl, rabbit would have been a good novel protein except that he has had it before (in Big Dog 'barf' patties). Although we do have feral rabbits in WA I haven't seen rabbit meat widely available at all, not sure why. Bruno loved it in the barf patties though. It might be something I try him on again in future. Thanks for your thoughts. :)

[trinabean]

Sorry Bruno isn't feeling well..

Some of us just end up with problem dogs one way or another.

Ollie (Purebred SBT) had skin allergies but we worked out it was a grass thing and it got worse if he attended the local park in spring and summer (we still used to go but washed him off when we got home).

When he was 2 he cracked the really big back molar eating a big bone - this was extracted when he was 4 (there was no need to do it before that).

When he was 6 he was diagnosed with kidney and bladder stones - an expensive ultrasound and operation, change of diet fixed that.

When he was 8 he was diagnosed with Mast Cell Tumours grade 2 with no clear margins and given 12-18 months to live.

With chemo and holistic treatment - another change of diet and lots of love, he lived another 6 years before asking for his wings on October 25th 2011..

We paid $150 for him from a 'breeder' that only had a couple of pups left and just wanted them gone..

I now have Ziggy and he is a bit sensitive to lots of fat in his diet and did get a bit itchy for a bit but it all seems to have worked out - hopefully my little pound mutt (amstaff cross) will stay as healthy as he looks.

I hope you can work it out with Bruno and get him well. I found the holistic vet gave great advice for diet and supplements over the years. They may not cure the dog but they certainly do help them stay well.

Good luck.

Thanks Staffyluv, I know from what you've written in the past that Ollie was one very special dog. Wow, you certainly had your share of ups and downs with his health! I too hope that now that you've worked out what Ziggy is sensitive to, he will stay healthy and happy.

Your idea of seeing a holistic vet is a good one. As Jed suggested, sometimes natural therapies can help where conventional medicine can't. I think I will persist with the specialist's advice on an elimination diet for 6-8 weeks and wait and see what the rest of the test results come back with. I will then re-evaluate the need for further testing if it seems necessary and take it from there as to which direction we take.

Thanks for your ideas. :)

[trinabean]

Has he had bloods done to test for for liver function? My shunt dog had GI issues which were a symptom among other things so I would check that.

Hmm, a good question WoofnHoof. The invoice says that the blood tests are 'CBC, biochemistry panel and electrolytes.' He also had urine taken for 'urinalysis' and a fecal sample to test for parasites (he is regularly wormed, but the vet mentioned parasites like Giardia that aren't killed by normal wormers). Is the liver function test a different blood test?

The vet called later on Friday to say that the blood results were back. Nothing was remarkable except that he had an elevated level of 'eosinophils.' This could indicate a parasite infection or it could just be because he has allergies. He was diagnosed and was being treated by a dermatologist for the allergies. We are still waiting for the results on the urine/ fecal tests. Thanks WoofnHoof. :)

A normal biochemistry result can pick up liver issues in the ALT levels but they don't always show up either so the one that is usually done to check liver function specifically is the bile acid test, they take blood when fasting and then after eating and compare the bile acid levels, that will tell you if the liver is doing it's job. Not all vet practices have come across liver shunts, I know mine hadn't so they didn't recognise it and it was misdiagnosed initially.

Thanks WoofnHoof, I think the blood results so far were that everything seemed normal (liver, kidneys etc) as far as that test can tell. I get what you're saying though that the blood test doesn't always tell the full story. The only thing that showed up outside the normal range was the high 'eosinophil' count.

I will ask about the bile acid test when I speak to the vet next. I'm hoping that as the vet we saw was a specialist and senior lecturer at the university clinic, that he will be well-informed on all sorts of weird/unusual illnesses.

[trinabean]

Boxer colitis is well described unfortunately. There are some forums in the US that offer help. I have a bulldog that has multiple gastrointestinal problems. He had several admissions last year for abdo pain, vomiting, bloody diarrhoea. He has gastro oesophageal reflux which he takes Losec for and has this well under control after a number of years of vomiting up. He had a bout of pancreatitis which we hope was just a one off after me trying to stuff high fat foods into him to help him gain weight. He had to have his spleen removed as it was very misshapen and nodular at the same time they externally examined his bowel and found him to have several areas of thickening (mostly likely inflammatory bowel disease). He had a scope and his duodenum was very inflamed and on biopsy he had helicobacter and eosinophils.

Currently I have him the best he has been in a while. He seems to have one good week of eating and then a week of laying around miserable with bloody diarrhoea then back to eating ravenously. I have found him to be best with a higher dose of Losec 10 mg in the am 20 mg in the pm and slippery elm seems to be what has helped him best after numerous other medications. I now give him 400 mg in the am and 800 mg in the evening. His poo is now firm and formed Not saying it will work for you but it may be worth a try. I work for a human gastroenterologist and he feels that this most likely is what has helped. He often tells his patients to use it too. I have been using it for about 2 months now and initially I didn't see much improvement but now I actually think he has put on weight and is eating 2 meals a day. I just have him back on his regular food of Royal Canin Junior 1/2 a cup and read meat. He seems not to like chicken at all and will eat fish. I cannot give him any bones at all as this flare everything up massively.

Sorry story is a bit long but I feel your pain. Each day has been a struggle with his eating and people have blamed me and said he only eats badly because I have tried different foods but looking back he was like this as a pup and it has progressed to this point. I have 6 other dogs that all eat well and enjoy their food so I know it is "not me". Hang in their for the sake of your boy and I hope things turn around soon for you.

Regarding the heart murmur I had a fox terrier that was diagnosed with a heart murmur at age 14 grade 6/6 and she continued to live until age 18 albeit on medications.

Hugs to you and your beautiful boxer

Thanks for your reply Skye2. I hear you on the temptation to try and 'fatten up' a skinny dog. And the pain of watching them have one good week (or less) of eating and then one miserable week with bloody diarhoea and weight loss. I have used slippery elm in the past and I think it helped too. Thanks, I will ask if it's suitable to use while Bruno is on the elimination diet. If not, it would be something I might be able to use once the 6-8 weeks is up.

And this dog has been like this ever since he was a pup too ( came home from the breeder with diarrhoea and was a "picky eater" in the breeders words). I was told to call the breeder within a day or two if it didn't settle down. I did. If I knew then what I do now, I should have returned him. It was a heart decision not a head decision. We had fallen in love with him and mistakenly thought that it was all going to be ok. You live and learn...

Re. the heart murmur in your fox terrier, it is encouraging that a dog with a severe heart murmur lived until 18. Hopefully this is mild enough that it won't be a problem, thanks. :)

[SarahJ88]

I hope you get it sorted soon, I know the feeling as my golden retriever had regularly ear infections and then at 9 months developed ocd. Since her surgery she has been good just the occasional ear infection

[cowanbree]

My old boy who I have recently had pts at 14yrs had immune related issues all his life. I tried everything, diet, natural remedy and normal with limited sucess. He had periods where he was ok but he also had much of his life where he wasn't. Looking back now without thr everyday emotion of trying to get my gorgeous boy right I can say I wish that after I had given curing him a really decent go without sucess that I had been brave enough to have him pts. If they do not have quality of life they don't have to suffer. There are many things you can try before reaching this decision but it pays to keep it in mind

[trinabean]

My old boy who I have recently had pts at 14yrs had immune related issues all his life. I tried everything, diet, natural remedy and normal with limited sucess. He had periods where he was ok but he also had much of his life where he wasn't. Looking back now without thr everyday emotion of trying to get my gorgeous boy right I can say I wish that after I had given curing him a really decent go without sucess that I had been brave enough to have him pts. If they do not have quality of life they don't have to suffer. There are many things you can try before reaching this decision but it pays to keep it in mind

Sorry about your boy Cowanbree.

Yes, I hear you on the big questions about quality of life and where does one draw the line as far as treatment etc. goes. I love this dog, his temperament is fantastic and he is so much a part of our family. Most of the time he seems happy enough...but he is a Boxer, and they are joyful souls! I guess I'm not ready to give up on a good outcome for him until I have some more answers. Finding the answers is proving to be the hard part. He has cost us a small fortune so far in vet bills, special diets etc. as you can well imagine, as your boy had immune-related issues all his life.

The specialist vet called last night, to say that the rest of the results are back (fecal/urine/bloods). There's no sign of parasites or anything abnormal, apart from the high 'eosinophils.' He mentioned that there are several possible conditions that would need either more in-depth blood tests, ultrasound or biopsy to investigate. Things he mentioned were pancreatitis, something to do with adrenal glands, and IBD (with a possible small intestine component to the problems?). Bruno is 2 weeks into the elimination diet and we opted to stick with that for the time being to see whether things settle down just with a low-fat, novel protein/carb diet. I've taken to writing down how much he's eating, meds given, and observations like how often he vomits/has diarrhoea. The vet wants me to send that through to him. Maybe he will see a pattern that I can't, and hopefully it will give him some info as to the next steps we should take.

Thank you Cowanbree for your insight. :)

And thank you SarahJ88, I'm glad you got a good result in the end with your GR. :)

Edited February 19, 2013 by trinabean