Lisey Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Just after advice - my 10 month old dog is very excited whenever he sees another dog. We are currently working on loose leash walking, which he does really well - until we see another dog - then he pulls, cries and sooks because he can't play with the other dog. He is not overly food motivated - I try to redirect his attention back to me with food but he just ignores it until we have passed the distraction. He is a really smart dog and at home he is going really well with sit, stay, drop, on your bed, etc. He went to puppy school when he was younger and now I wish that I took him somewhere different as for half of the lesson it was just a free for all and I think this is partly why he gets so excited - as he thinks its time to run around like crazy when he sees another dog. He has just started formal obedience (the club closed down for Christmas otherwise we would have started sooner) - but it was painful. Before it started and we were waiting he basically just sooked the whole time because I wouldn't let him say hi to every dog. Once the lesson started he was a bit better but would easily be distracted again. I know that he could actually be really good at obedience but just need to get his focus to remain on me. I'm hoping just by going every week it will get him use to being around dogs without interacting with them all. My goal is for him to greet other dogs calmly (or even ignore them) and to be able to have him offlead with other dogs around and him to remain calm :) Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) What sort of play/fun activity do YOU provide? Is he learning to look to you for that? Make your goal for him to anticipate the fun as coming from and through you, rather than your conscious or primary goal being to greet other dogs calmly. That can be your secondary goal :). Edited February 8, 2013 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisey Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 What sort of fun should I be providing? Do you mean while we are walking or just all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Any time that suits and/or is appropriate. The game of tug is one example. What you do with your dog depends on what your dog is inclined to think of as fun. We have one dog at class who isn't so much into "tug" (only mildly) but loooooooves a bit of a quick goof around and goes spare (in a good, fun way) when I say "scratchy bottom!" ( go figure) and muck around with giving his back a bit of a scratch as we run around a bit. When you've established a game (and the rules of the game) and your dog has come to understand and anticipate it as reward (or more particularly, as motivation) for obedience and other good behaviours, you can use it as a motivator against and or as a reward for ignoring those things (ie in your instance, other dogs) in the environment. Through your consistency in motivational training, your dog can also begin to learn that fun stuff comes from you and that although other dogs are ok, they don't provide the entertainment that you do. ETA: Follow the "Triangle of Temptation" protocol - it's a sticky by Steve - K9Pro at the top of this forum. That's an excellent way to teaching voluntary focus and enhances general obedience training. Edited February 8, 2013 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Just after advice - my 10 month old dog is very excited whenever he sees another dog. We are currently working on loose leash walking, which he does really well - until we see another dog - then he pulls, cries and sooks because he can't play with the other dog. He is not overly food motivated - I try to redirect his attention back to me with food but he just ignores it until we have passed the distraction. He is a really smart dog and at home he is going really well with sit, stay, drop, on your bed, etc. He went to puppy school when he was younger and now I wish that I took him somewhere different as for half of the lesson it was just a free for all and I think this is partly why he gets so excited - as he thinks its time to run around like crazy when he sees another dog. He has just started formal obedience (the club closed down for Christmas otherwise we would have started sooner) - but it was painful. Before it started and we were waiting he basically just sooked the whole time because I wouldn't let him say hi to every dog. Once the lesson started he was a bit better but would easily be distracted again. I know that he could actually be really good at obedience but just need to get his focus to remain on me. I'm hoping just by going every week it will get him use to being around dogs without interacting with them all. My goal is for him to greet other dogs calmly (or even ignore them) and to be able to have him offlead with other dogs around and him to remain calm :) Thanks for your help. What I have bolded...I think you have hit the nail on the head. I took my BC girl to puppy school & this happened & also I allowed her to just run with any other dog that wanted to play & IMO it ruined her. Maybe some dogs can take free play & some can't. I do agility with her & for a long time I was frustrated with even trying to keep her on the same course, she was so distracted & just wanted to run & play/chase the other dogs/kids/whatever. I learnt how to clicker train & worked on her with a programme called LAT (Look At That) & now she such a little angel & is up into Masters level at agility, so I couldn't be happier. I still revisit LAT when we first arrive at a trial or training but it doesn't take her long to settle. The only dog she is allowed to run free with is our new BC dog. He never went to puppy school & we havn't allowed him to run with strangers & he is just such a cool dog. :) If you do a search for Look At That on this forum, you will find heaps about it. But before you start, I would advise learning how to use the cliker to train your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisey Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Any time that suits and/or is appropriate. The game of tug is one example. What you do with your dog depends on what your dog is inclined to think of as fun. We have one dog at class who isn't so much into "tug" (only mildly) but loooooooves a bit of a quick goof around and goes spare (in a good, fun way) when I say "scratchy bottom!" ( go figure) and muck around with giving his back a bit of a scratch as we run around a bit. When you've established a game (and the rules of the game) and your dog has come to understand and anticipate it as reward (or more particularly, as motivation) for obedience and other good behaviours, you can use it as a motivator against and or as a reward for ignoring those things (ie in your instance, other dogs) in the environment. Through your consistency in motivational training, your dog can also begin to learn that fun stuff comes from you and that although other dogs are ok, they don't provide the entertainment that you do. ETA: Follow the "Triangle of Temptation" protocol - it's a sticky by Steve - K9Pro at the top of this forum. That's an excellent way to teaching voluntary focus and enhances general obedience training. Thanks Erny. I am thinking I'm going to have to start from the beginning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisey Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Just after advice - my 10 month old dog is very excited whenever he sees another dog. We are currently working on loose leash walking, which he does really well - until we see another dog - then he pulls, cries and sooks because he can't play with the other dog. He is not overly food motivated - I try to redirect his attention back to me with food but he just ignores it until we have passed the distraction. He is a really smart dog and at home he is going really well with sit, stay, drop, on your bed, etc. He went to puppy school when he was younger and now I wish that I took him somewhere different as for half of the lesson it was just a free for all and I think this is partly why he gets so excited - as he thinks its time to run around like crazy when he sees another dog. He has just started formal obedience (the club closed down for Christmas otherwise we would have started sooner) - but it was painful. Before it started and we were waiting he basically just sooked the whole time because I wouldn't let him say hi to every dog. Once the lesson started he was a bit better but would easily be distracted again. I know that he could actually be really good at obedience but just need to get his focus to remain on me. I'm hoping just by going every week it will get him use to being around dogs without interacting with them all. My goal is for him to greet other dogs calmly (or even ignore them) and to be able to have him offlead with other dogs around and him to remain calm :) Thanks for your help. What I have bolded...I think you have hit the nail on the head. I took my BC girl to puppy school & this happened & also I allowed her to just run with any other dog that wanted to play & IMO it ruined her. Maybe some dogs can take free play & some can't. I do agility with her & for a long time I was frustrated with even trying to keep her on the same course, she was so distracted & just wanted to run & play/chase the other dogs/kids/whatever. I learnt how to clicker train & worked on her with a programme called LAT (Look At That) & now she such a little angel & is up into Masters level at agility, so I couldn't be happier. I still revisit LAT when we first arrive at a trial or training but it doesn't take her long to settle. The only dog she is allowed to run free with is our new BC dog. He never went to puppy school & we havn't allowed him to run with strangers & he is just such a cool dog. :) If you do a search for Look At That on this forum, you will find heaps about it. But before you start, I would advise learning how to use the cliker to train your dog. Thanks sheena. I thought I was doing the right thing as it wasn't a vet puppy preschool but it was not really any better. I take him to a different obedience school than the puppy class as its the same one I have taken my older dog to and I like it there. I don't ever take him to dog parks, we go to the beach sometimes but we walk far up and only take him off when no-one else is around. If another dog is coming we just put him on lead until they pass and he sooks and whines. It sounds like a little kid whinging! He has my girl to play with - they have a lot of fun together running around the yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I don't ever take him to dog parks, we go to the beach sometimes but we walk far up and only take him off when no-one else is around. If another dog is coming we just put him on lead until they pass and he sooks and whines. It sounds like a little kid whinging! Keep working/training with him - remember, he is only a 'kid' (so to speak). You're still guiding his behaviours as he matures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisey Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 I do sometimes forget that he is still a pup. He has grown so much and is quite big now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) For times when you just want to take him for a quite walk then a front attached harness is great. You can get them here Front Attach Harness Almost impossible for the dog to pull, as being front attached, means that the dog is pulled around into you, every time he leans on it. You still need to give him some lead training on a flat collar, but in the meantime, there are times when you just want to go for a walk & not have your arm pulled off. :laugh: Edited February 9, 2013 by sheena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisey Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 He doesn't actually pull when we go on our normal route - unless a dog walks past.... then back to walking nicely. Just when I take him somewhere new or near other dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I agree with Erny - I have found that making myself lots of FUN has improved my dog's focus a LOT. Depending on your funds - you could look into Susan Garrett's Recallers course. It is an online course with video and written instructions for 7 weeks of games you can play. Not only for recall training, it has a lot if fun games for relationship building, self control and focus too, and is a lot of fun! I did it in the last intake, Recallers 4 will open in a few weeks. I have started a topic on it here http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/246336-susan-garretts-recallers-4/ and has a link to my video. Lots more inspirational videos on it can be found on Susan's Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/#!/SusanGarrettDogAgility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Lisey :laugh: im struggling with exactly the same problem with my youngest dog!! cept i still havent mastered loose lease walking with her propperly, but soon as she sees another dog any attention is gone! and she lunges to get to them, not too food motivated either, or tug motivated....still trying to find her motivation. have been a bit slack on the loose leash walking, as i take both my dogs out together and she really needs one on one time. :) just wanted to say best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisey Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Lisey :laugh: im struggling with exactly the same problem with my youngest dog!! cept i still havent mastered loose lease walking with her propperly, but soon as she sees another dog any attention is gone! and she lunges to get to them, not too food motivated either, or tug motivated....still trying to find her motivation. have been a bit slack on the loose leash walking, as i take both my dogs out together and she really needs one on one time. :) just wanted to say best of luck Thanks! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisey Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 Well we had our second training class tonight and I have seen a small improvement already. Yay! I'm looking forward to working with him as I know that he will do well eventually :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I'm having a similar problem with my 11 month old, (although she never went to a puppy class where there is free for all play, there is a little of on lead saying hellos which she wasn't that interested in doing). My girl has the attention span on an ADHD butterfly atm - games, food, clicker work, nothing is as interesting for her as anything else that is going on eg a dirty mark on the floor, a dust mote floating past, people who might say hello so she can jump up - basically the whole world is all terribly exciting for her and she wants to experience it all. In familiar places with familiar people and dogs she can do some nice work and concentrate, but each time we go somewhere new or something changes then this sets her right back to the start again. I am hoping when she has her first season it will help her head to mature a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) This is where a correction chain is handy. You need to show the dog that acting like a lunatic toward the other dog is not that nice, being right there next to mum is. So put correction chain on dog, have a nice loose leash. When the dog goes to run towards the other dog give it a sharp pop but do NOT vocally reprimand the dog. As soon as the pop works, call the dog back to you and reward. You give the dog a choice - come here for a reward or go over there and it's pretty average. The collar works independantly to you, the reason you do not verbally reprimand the dog is we want it to gravitate to you. Now being gruff or yelling will mean a dog that ignores you even more because it sees no reason to return to you. This way you're always the awesome person in the situation no matter what happens and the dog will more and more want your attention - because any direct interaction you give is rewarding. A thinking dog also has long term retention because life is black and white. When you want your dog to go say hello to another, put a command on it like "say hello' which is quite socially acceptable. The dog can wander over calmly and have a sniff, then should easily return to you when you say something like 'come on' and a pat when it returns to you. You remove the expectation of the dog thinking 'carry on hard enough I'll get what I want'. You now have set parameters where the dog may be able to go meet another dog. If it doesnt, it doesnt matter because it's ultimate rewarder - you - are right there. Your dogs are old enough to learn consequence to bad and unacceptable behavior. When a dog sees something as being more rewarding then you, you can either spend a long time being a social leper because you have to keep a long distance where your dog doesnt react and hope you're rewarding enough, or you can proof your dogs behavior by showing it consequence to unacceptable actions then reward the hell out of it for doing the right thing. Your choice. I can tell you what all my clients prefer and I have not traumatised one dog yet. Edited February 12, 2013 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I'm having a similar problem with my 11 month old, (although she never went to a puppy class where there is free for all play, there is a little of on lead saying hellos which she wasn't that interested in doing). My girl has the attention span on an ADHD butterfly atm - games, food, clicker work, nothing is as interesting for her as anything else that is going on eg a dirty mark on the floor, a dust mote floating past, people who might say hello so she can jump up - basically the whole world is all terribly exciting for her and she wants to experience it all. In familiar places with familiar people and dogs she can do some nice work and concentrate, but each time we go somewhere new or something changes then this sets her right back to the start again. I am hoping when she has her first season it will help her head to mature a bit! Does she tug? Maybe she needs really active, physical rewards. Plus we need photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 she will tug but her aim if she does engage (and it soon stops as other stuff is more interesting - nosey dog remember!), anyway, if she does engage she always gets hold of me and the tug so me screaming ouch doesn't help! Other times when it is straight play, then she will get hold of just the tug. She can work with known distractions eg other dogs and people around club and last week was working and concentrating while dumbells were being thrown around but it is when we are in new places or places with lots of change eg walking through the village or town center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Also tried what Nek said but the choker isn't felt by her, so we have changed to a head collar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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