Diva Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 What I find interesting in the forgotten baby cases is that the parents are frequently not prosecuted, and when they are they frequently acquitted. It seems when the full facts are considered, the courts often decide it is a genuine accident. Even in the face of baying for revenge by some. There but for the Grace of God. Donatella, does your apology extend to calling me a troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) I am avid use of emoticons and it isn't limited to any thread I post in, but moreso relevant to the post in question i'm replying to. That is just my personality. I would have thought my reaction to the dog dying was enough to know I thought that I was moved enough by the incident and that my use of emoticon in the thread was irrelevant. I do believe you were just trying to stir me up! So no, I'm not apologising and I will continue to use emoticons as I see fit :D Edited February 9, 2013 by donatella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korbin13 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 What I find interesting in the forgotten baby cases is that the parents are frequently not prosecuted, and when they are they frequently acquitted. It seems when the full facts are considered, the courts often decide it is a genuine accident. Even in the face of baying for revenge by some. There but for the Grace of God. Donatella, does your apology extend to calling me a troll? Thank goodness for our justice system, while not perfect some people (as shown in this thread) would hang people on a sniff that they did something wrong. Judge, jury and executioner! And as for making the comparison to nurses making error, who wouldn't have sympathy for a nurse who made an error that cost someone their life. Probably harder on themselves than anybody could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I called you a troll because your comment on my use of emoticons. I am avid use of emoticons and it isn't limited to any thread I post in, but moreso relevant to the post in question i'm replying to. That is just my personality. I would have thought my reaction to the dog dying was enough to know I thought that I was moved enough by the incident and that my use of emoticon in the thread was irrelevant. troll Someone who is purposefully posting on a forum/messageboard/site the sole aim to irritate the regular members. I do believe you were just trying to stir me up! So no, I'm not apologising and I will continue to use emoticons as I see fit :D I wasn't, but that's ok, I will leave it to the mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I will take the heat because I believe you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) What I find interesting in the forgotten baby cases is that the parents are frequently not prosecuted, and when they are they frequently acquitted. It seems when the full facts are considered, the courts often decide it is a genuine accident. Even in the face of baying for revenge by some. There but for the Grace of God. Donatella, does your apology extend to calling me a troll? Thank goodness for our justice system, while not perfect some people (as shown in this thread) would hang people on a sniff that they did something wrong. Judge, jury and executioner! And as for making the comparison to nurses making error, who wouldn't have sympathy for a nurse who made an error that cost someone their life. Probably harder on themselves than anybody could be. Hmmmm our justice system, what a joke that is. Perpetrators of the crimes seems to have more rights and decisions/viewpoints going in their favour than the poor victims. Lack of accountability and every excuse under the sun being trotted out to defend the perpetrators actions . How about standing up for the victims more, screaming out for justice for THEM instead!! This innocent victim doesn't have a voice, she doesn't have a life anymore, thanks to the negligence of her carer. I for one will not stand idly by and try and excuse this person's negligence by blaming it on some form of memory lapse/forgetfulness . Lets not forget this poor dog DIED in the most HORRIBLE of circumstances This dog was going to provide a very valuable service and be the eyes for a poor blind/seeing impaired person. Edited February 9, 2013 by labadore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korbin13 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 What I find interesting in the forgotten baby cases is that the parents are frequently not prosecuted, and when they are they frequently acquitted. It seems when the full facts are considered, the courts often decide it is a genuine accident. Even in the face of baying for revenge by some. There but for the Grace of God. Donatella, does your apology extend to calling me a troll? Thank goodness for our justice system, while not perfect some people (as shown in this thread) would hang people on a sniff that they did something wrong. Judge, jury and executioner! And as for making the comparison to nurses making error, who wouldn't have sympathy for a nurse who made an error that cost someone their life. Probably harder on themselves than anybody could be. Hmmmm our justice system, what a joke that is. Perpetrators of the crimes seems to have more rights and decisions/viewpoints going in their favour than the poor victims. Lack of accountability and every excuse under the sun being trotted out to defend the perpetrators actions . How about standing up for the victims more, screaming out for justice for THEM instead!! This innocent victim doesn't have a voice, she doesn't have a life anymore, thanks to the negligence of her carer. I for one will not stand idly by and try and excuse this person's negligence by blaming it on some form of memory lapse/forgetfulness . Lets not forget this poor dog DIED in the most HORRIBLE of circumstances This dog was going to provide a very valuable service and be the eyes for a poor blind/seeing impaired person. Ok, so what would you like to happen to the guy who has probably spent a lot of time helping blind people? And instead not standing idly by, what are you going to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 What I find interesting in the forgotten baby cases is that the parents are frequently not prosecuted, and when they are they frequently acquitted. It seems when the full facts are considered, the courts often decide it is a genuine accident. Even in the face of baying for revenge by some. There but for the Grace of God. Donatella, does your apology extend to calling me a troll? Thank goodness for our justice system, while not perfect some people (as shown in this thread) would hang people on a sniff that they did something wrong. Judge, jury and executioner! And as for making the comparison to nurses making error, who wouldn't have sympathy for a nurse who made an error that cost someone their life. Probably harder on themselves than anybody could be. Hmmmm our justice system, what a joke that is. Perpetrators of the crimes seems to have more rights and decisions/viewpoints going in their favour than the poor victims. Lack of accountability and every excuse under the sun being trotted out to defend the perpetrators actions . How about standing up for the victims more, screaming out for justice for THEM instead!! This innocent victim doesn't have a voice, she doesn't have a life anymore, thanks to the negligence of her carer. I for one will not stand idly by and try and excuse this person's negligence by blaming it on some form of memory lapse/forgetfulness . Lets not forget this poor dog DIED in the most HORRIBLE of circumstances This dog was going to provide a very valuable service and be the eyes for a poor blind/seeing impaired person. Ok, so what would you like to happen to the guy who has probably spent a lot of time helping blind people? And instead not standing idly by, what are you going to do? At the very least this person should lose their job and should not be allowed to ever work with dogs as he cannot be trusted to fulfill his duty of care to them . I have been a longtime supporter of guide dogs and will be rethinking this support if this person does not lose their job/role over this incident and if appropriate measures are not taken to prevent a similar situation from happening. I will be doing what I can to find out more about this incident and am seriously contemplating a social media campaign to draw attention to this incident and other similar incidents in an effort to bring some focus on the plight of service dogs losing their lives due to the their handlers negligence/failing to fulfil their duty of care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 So now all lapses in concentration causing a death can be excused because "someone forgot" or "wasn't paying attention"? Where do you draw the line? A truck driver has a lapse in concentration, crosses his lane and kills a family on the road. That's OK though, it was only a concentration lapse. Plus he did charity work in his spare time so that doubly excuses him. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) I don't think it is being suggested that all lapses are simply excused, but there does seem to be a need to examine each incident on its own merits, and there does seem to be a higher risk of genuinely forgetting around the forgotten baby issue. Still small, of all the millions of such trips a year it doesnt happen often - but not immaterial. I would be very surprised if the guide dog people don't put in processes to safeguard against such tragedies, probably every organisation dealing with dogs should, but if they can just blame an individual instead of recognising an inherent risk they may not see the need. Edited February 9, 2013 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 So now all lapses in concentration causing a death can be excused because "someone forgot" or "wasn't paying attention"? Where do you draw the line? A truck driver has a lapse in concentration, crosses his lane and kills a family on the road. That's OK though, it was only a concentration lapse. Plus he did charity work in his spare time so that doubly excuses him. Right? Lets come up with a 'syndrome' name for it to make them feel better about it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I would be very surprised if the guide dog people don't put in processes to safeguard against such tragedies, probably every organisation dealing with dogs should, but if they can just blame an individual in stead of recognising an inherent risk, they may not see the need. They are - this is a statement from them on their FB page: Hello everyone, we wanted to give you all some additional insight into the tragic incident from last week which resulted in the death of Colette, one of our much loved Guide Dogs in Training.We can’t go into great detail about how or why this tragedy occurred, but yes, it was a terrible mistake made by a loyal colleague of ours who is still trying desperately to come to grips with what happened. Colette was nearing the end of her training and to have her life cut short so tragically when she had such a bright future ahead of her is incredibly distressing to all of us. Please understand, there has been no attempt to ‘cover up’ or hide this incident, but our first priority after informing the authorities was to let our staff and clients know rather than have them hear about it second hand. I can reassure you all that the Association operates under the highest standards already, but we will now be reviewing our procedures on the arrivals and departures of our Guide Dogs in training to make sure such a tragic mistake never happens again. Dr Clare Allen, Chief Executive Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochmad Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 It's terrible that it's taken a tragedy before a policy / process was being considered. Unfortunately, this is often the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) The whole thing is very sad Taking into the guys account, I do wonder if he was over worked, doing double shifts, under pressure. Edited February 9, 2013 by donatella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 It's terrible that it's taken a tragedy before a policy / process was being considered. Unfortunately, this is often the case. They would have had policy/processes in place, but obviously not rigorous enough to prevent this tragedy. The person who was responsible for the death of this poor dog was a "senior" colleague, so should have known better as would have had much more experience than a more junior employee/carer and when a dog in their care loses its life to their negligence, to me there can be no other outcome, but for them to lose their job. Apart from the fact that this person would have lost the trust and respect of his colleagues and the organisation, how could this person properly function with the guilt they would be carrying over causing such a horrible death of this poor dog . Employees in the general workplace can lose their jobs over what could be considered "trivial" breaches of their employment, so why should this person who caused the death of this dog, not lose their job. I can reassure you all that the Association operates under the highest standards already, but we will now be reviewing our procedures on the arrivals and departures of our Guide Dogs in training to make sure such a tragic mistake never happens again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korbin13 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 So now all lapses in concentration causing a death can be excused because "someone forgot" or "wasn't paying attention"? Where do you draw the line? A truck driver has a lapse in concentration, crosses his lane and kills a family on the road. That's OK though, it was only a concentration lapse. Plus he did charity work in his spare time so that doubly excuses him. Right? Really?! People can't express empathy now? If he has done the wrong thing he will be punished, doesn't mean I can't understand how it happened or feel for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I think punishment enough will be the fact that he has to live with what happened for the rest of his life!! Imagine if it was a child your own or someone else's and you had forgotten them and they died, no amount of jail time could compare with their own personal hell. How would you live with yourself after something like that?! It just doesn't bare thinking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 What a nightmare poor dog died a terrible death, and poor employee who has to live with what he's done. I admit I can't imagine how he could forget the dog long enough that it died. I've left my dog out in the backyard and forgotten to bring her in, long enough for her to dig huge holes in my lawn - this dog cannot be trusted outside on the lawn without supervision for more than 5 mins. I've also forgotten to let her out of her crate once she's finished her dinner, for about 30 mins. But none of these scenarios would mean leaving the dog in a life threatening situation. I honestly don't believe I would ever accidentally leave a dog in a car, especially on a hot day. I've also forgotten to attend an interview for a job I really wanted. I'd arranged the time off work but them I woke up and went to work as usual that day. So memory lapses can occur at times yu wouldn't expect them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 "Nutter" because of the lack of compassion for the suffering of a fellow human. Ever heard of the saying "There but for the grace of God go I???" I hope those who are baying for this blokes blood can take the judgement if they ever make a mistake. My friend who forgot her dog in the car??? She pays for it every day of her life, and she LOVED that dog, truly loved her. I saw her suffering, and i wouldn't wish that pain on another person....she fully understands the suffering her dog went through, which compounds her guilt. See Donatella, you just admitted you have forgotten to feed your dogs dinner...when they are in the same house....what if that had been a patient you had forgotten to give life-saving medication too??? (and yes, I'm using your very own logic here...or does that only apply to other people and not yourself?) I've never forgotten to feed them dinner, I said I feel pretty bad if I forgot to feed them dinner, not if I 'forget' to feed them dinner. Thus implying you forgot to feed them...whoops no, of course not, YOU are perfect...lucky you, what a lovely view you must have from your ivory tower! " Feel pretty bad if I forget" not "I would feel bad if I had forgotten"..... :) Worded badly, I have never forgotten to feed my dogs dinner. This is aided by the fact that they have dry biccies down 24/7 so food is always available breakfast/morning tea/lunch/afternoon tea/dinner/midnight snack Let me put this one to you: A babysitter, comes with high credentials, looking after 2 kids under 3. A sudden lapse of memory and one of them drowns in the bath. It was a genuine accident, all the investigations prove this. Still okay? What if that were your children? Just a human error? You don't f*ck with life. You just don't mess with it. That one is easy. You are within arms reach of children in water at all times. That's not a tragic mistake, that is deliberate neglect....very different What about if it was a child in the car not a dog? Would it still be an accident or neglect? Is it okay just because its a dog to be an accident? If it were a child this would be a different story. Yes it would be a different story due to dogs not being the same as children. I just don't get the comparison between kids and dogs all the time, of course it's a different story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) How disgraceful. This frightful person should lose his job. How irresponsible is it to leave a dog in a car for 2 hours? I imagine the suffering of that poor dog as her organs shut down due to dehydration, and I think maybe that man should be flogged as well as losing his job. The point is, if you are not responsible enough, don't have a pet, and certainly don't work with animals. How on earth could someone "forget" the baby was in the bath? Or in the pool? How could you forget the dog was in the car? It should be in your forebrain. And yes, you might overlook it for a moment or two, or not realise if the dogs had jumped in without your knowing, but to leave a dog in a car for TWO HOURS defies belief. And I often wonder if those poor babies and children who drown really died by accident. Edited February 9, 2013 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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