Guide Dog Dies In Hot Car

[Remarkabull]

None of us know the exact circumstances of what happened that day, but I can say with certainty that unless the guy made a conscious decision to leave the dog then I feel empathy for him too. Of course i feel terrible how that poor dog suffered and died, but as a human being I can only imagine how I would be feeling if I had done the same thing and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. That doesn't mean I place more value on people or dogs or anything else, its simply the way I feel and I don't understand why some of you are so offended by the feelings and opinions of others.

I can't imagine that any Doler would be anything other than horrified by the death of Collette and to suggest otherwise is just silly.

[poochmad]

Brookestar, where did you get your information from? I can't see any reference to it on their website nor on their Facebook page and am curious how you came across it. Can you please share the link if it's online? Ta.

Also, can you please not use capital letters in your post as it comes across as shouting. Making the words bold has the same effect. Ta. :)

ETA: the reason I'm asking is because I like to have all the facts before making a decision.

Edited February 11, 2013 by poochmad

[Sheridan]

I am even more sickened now with this revelation in your post that I have bolded So he takes one of the dogs out of the vehicle and leaves the other one in it. My god, he intentionally left the poor dog in the vehicle, he is a senior instructor who should have known better I just want to scream and cry at this totally preventable, totally unnecessary, totally cruel and totally horrendous death of this special dog. That poor poor dog I need to take a break from this thread, I actually feel ill

Where is your evidence for this?

[Staffyluv]

None of us know the exact circumstances of what happened that day, but I can say with certainty that unless the guy made a conscious decision to leave the dog then I feel empathy for him too. Of course i feel terrible how that poor dog suffered and died, but as a human being I can only imagine how I would be feeling if I had done the same thing and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. That doesn't mean I place more value on people or dogs or anything else, its simply the way I feel and I don't understand why some of you are so offended by the feelings and opinions of others.

I can't imagine that any Doler would be anything other than horrified by the death of Collette and to suggest otherwise is just silly.

Good post Remarkabull, I don't know anyone that would leave a dog in a car to die - deliberately.

It is a horrible accident and the dog died as a result.. There is no way in hell that man put that dog in the car, with a view to leaving it there to die (not deliberate, therefore an accident)..

There are so many here prepared to cast the first stone, so to speak - So none of you have ever made a mistake?? Maybe not to the extent of this one but hey, we are all human..

I have loads of empathy for him - he has to live with his actions.

It could cost him his job, his reputation in the industry.

The dog died but there is nothing to be gained from crucifying the man that made the mistake..

Some of you sound like you would hang him at the first chance..

It is a sad day when people lose the ability to forgive.

[mantis]

None of us know the exact circumstances of what happened that day, but I can say with certainty that unless the guy made a conscious decision to leave the dog then I feel empathy for him too. Of course i feel terrible how that poor dog suffered and died, but as a human being I can only imagine how I would be feeling if I had done the same thing and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. That doesn't mean I place more value on people or dogs or anything else, its simply the way I feel and I don't understand why some of you are so offended by the feelings and opinions of others.

I can't imagine that any Doler would be anything other than horrified by the death of Collette and to suggest otherwise is just silly.

Good post Remarkabull, I don't know anyone that would leave a dog in a car to die - deliberately.

It is a horrible accident and the dog died as a result.. There is no way in hell that man put that dog in the car, with a view to leaving it there to die (not deliberate, therefore an accident)..

There are so many here prepared to cast the first stone, so to speak - So none of you have ever made a mistake?? Maybe not to the extent of this one but hey, we are all human..

I have loads of empathy for him - he has to live with his actions.

It could cost him his job, his reputation in the industry.

The dog died but there is nothing to be gained from crucifying the man that made the mistake..

Some of you sound like you would hang him at the first chance..

It is a sad day when people lose the ability to forgive.

He was a trained professional in charge of a valuable dog, not Joe Public. Doctors get struck off for malpractice when they screw up, how is this any different?

[Staffyluv]

None of us know the exact circumstances of what happened that day, but I can say with certainty that unless the guy made a conscious decision to leave the dog then I feel empathy for him too. Of course i feel terrible how that poor dog suffered and died, but as a human being I can only imagine how I would be feeling if I had done the same thing and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. That doesn't mean I place more value on people or dogs or anything else, its simply the way I feel and I don't understand why some of you are so offended by the feelings and opinions of others.

I can't imagine that any Doler would be anything other than horrified by the death of Collette and to suggest otherwise is just silly.

Good post Remarkabull, I don't know anyone that would leave a dog in a car to die - deliberately.

It is a horrible accident and the dog died as a result.. There is no way in hell that man put that dog in the car, with a view to leaving it there to die (not deliberate, therefore an accident)..

There are so many here prepared to cast the first stone, so to speak - So none of you have ever made a mistake?? Maybe not to the extent of this one but hey, we are all human..

I have loads of empathy for him - he has to live with his actions.

It could cost him his job, his reputation in the industry.

The dog died but there is nothing to be gained from crucifying the man that made the mistake..

Some of you sound like you would hang him at the first chance..

It is a sad day when people lose the ability to forgive.

He was a trained professional in charge of a valuable dog, not Joe Public. Doctors get struck off for malpractice when they screw up, how is this any different?

So one terrible mistake in how many years of service?

Talk about judge, jury and executioner!

So you have never made a mistake, one you can't take back and it has impacted yours or someone else's life?

Hope none of those in the lynch mob ever do anything they ever need forgiveness for..

[mantis]

None of us know the exact circumstances of what happened that day, but I can say with certainty that unless the guy made a conscious decision to leave the dog then I feel empathy for him too. Of course i feel terrible how that poor dog suffered and died, but as a human being I can only imagine how I would be feeling if I had done the same thing and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. That doesn't mean I place more value on people or dogs or anything else, its simply the way I feel and I don't understand why some of you are so offended by the feelings and opinions of others.

I can't imagine that any Doler would be anything other than horrified by the death of Collette and to suggest otherwise is just silly.

Good post Remarkabull, I don't know anyone that would leave a dog in a car to die - deliberately.

It is a horrible accident and the dog died as a result.. There is no way in hell that man put that dog in the car, with a view to leaving it there to die (not deliberate, therefore an accident)..

There are so many here prepared to cast the first stone, so to speak - So none of you have ever made a mistake?? Maybe not to the extent of this one but hey, we are all human..

I have loads of empathy for him - he has to live with his actions.

It could cost him his job, his reputation in the industry.

The dog died but there is nothing to be gained from crucifying the man that made the mistake..

Some of you sound like you would hang him at the first chance..

It is a sad day when people lose the ability to forgive.

He was a trained professional in charge of a valuable dog, not Joe Public. Doctors get struck off for malpractice when they screw up, how is this any different?

So one terrible mistake in how many years of service?

Talk about judge, jury and executioner!

So you have never made a mistake, one you can't take back and it has impacted yours or someone else's life?

Hope none of those in the lynch mob ever do anything they ever need forgiveness for..

So do you feel the same when a Doctor makes one mistake that takes a life after many years of service? Are you upset that they get struck off & sued for malpractice, or is it only if it's a dog that suffers, then the professional should get a free pass?

[Staffyluv]

None of us know the exact circumstances of what happened that day, but I can say with certainty that unless the guy made a conscious decision to leave the dog then I feel empathy for him too. Of course i feel terrible how that poor dog suffered and died, but as a human being I can only imagine how I would be feeling if I had done the same thing and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. That doesn't mean I place more value on people or dogs or anything else, its simply the way I feel and I don't understand why some of you are so offended by the feelings and opinions of others.

I can't imagine that any Doler would be anything other than horrified by the death of Collette and to suggest otherwise is just silly.

Good post Remarkabull, I don't know anyone that would leave a dog in a car to die - deliberately.

It is a horrible accident and the dog died as a result.. There is no way in hell that man put that dog in the car, with a view to leaving it there to die (not deliberate, therefore an accident)..

There are so many here prepared to cast the first stone, so to speak - So none of you have ever made a mistake?? Maybe not to the extent of this one but hey, we are all human..

I have loads of empathy for him - he has to live with his actions.

It could cost him his job, his reputation in the industry.

The dog died but there is nothing to be gained from crucifying the man that made the mistake..

Some of you sound like you would hang him at the first chance..

It is a sad day when people lose the ability to forgive.

He was a trained professional in charge of a valuable dog, not Joe Public. Doctors get struck off for malpractice when they screw up, how is this any different?

So one terrible mistake in how many years of service?

Talk about judge, jury and executioner!

So you have never made a mistake, one you can't take back and it has impacted yours or someone else's life?

Hope none of those in the lynch mob ever do anything they ever need forgiveness for..

So do you feel the same when a Doctor makes one mistake that takes a life after many years of service? Are you upset that they get struck off & sued for malpractice, or is it only if it's a dog that suffers, then the professional should get a free pass?

Where have I said he should get a free pass?

Doctors make mistakes and people die as a result every day.

Vets make mistakes and animals die every day.

Nurses make mistakes and people die every day.

There has been a lot of instances where police, paramedics and fire fighters have made mistakes and people have died.

People die as a result of war all over the world every day.

So all these people should be struck down and never allowed to live in society ever again?

Let the punishment fit the crime. You are acting like he massacred a whole village.

He made a terrible mistake, he has to live with it for the rest of his life.

But to balance the scales of justice somewhat, the man has given many years of dedicated service to an industry that needs dedicated people.

You are so righteous, I can only assume you without any guilt in your life.. I would hope that you have not done, nor would ever do anything that required forgiveness or understanding..

I can only imagine what he is going through, only being made more difficult with lynch mob yelling from the mountain top..

[raz]

So do you feel the same when a Doctor makes one mistake that takes a life

This thread isnt about a Doctor who kills a patient!

Incase you missed it the Guide Dog Assoc confirmed this incident was an accident. Yes it's a terrible accident but rather than continue to harp on here with your snarling for blood when you dont know all the facts, why dont you take it up with them?

[kayla1]

So do you feel the same when a Doctor makes one mistake that takes a life after many years of service? Are you upset that they get struck off & sued for malpractice, or is it only if it's a dog that suffers, then the professional should get a free pass?

A free pass? Not likely. This person has to live with his actions every single day, for the rest of his life. I can't imagine a worse punishment than that.

[Just Andrea]

As a senior experienced professional who should know better and who is charge of the welfare and training of animals on a daily basis, his behavior is inexcusable.

Other matters aside, i.e. a persons sympathy for the man or not, whether they would save their dog over someone elses kid, their child over someone elses are highly emotive and subjective and I won't buy into.

However, the facts are as stated in post 1 and on the website - he went inside to the office for 2 hours, forgot about the dog in car, the dog died as a result of his negligence. Again intentional or not is irrelevant. He failed to adequately fulfill his responsibiliites for the safety and welfare of this dog that was in his care. Pure and simple. He is 100% at fault.

Do I personally think he should be publically whipped or flogged - no, but there is no excuse for his action or lack thereof. He is paid for exactly what he does, train including transport animals to where they need to go. He is accountable.

When you are dealing with life there is no room for error. That's the whole reason this article made the news. It should never have happened. Someone did the wrong thing.

I have been in rescue for almost a decade (with no pay for what I do or SOP in place like he would have had in a well known organisation, all I have is my own common sense and some dog experience) and have transported hundreds and hundreds of animals over this time. EVERY time I transport them I plan crates, where animals are getting off and on and to who and eta's. If I am busting for a piss I will do it behind a bush or race to the toilet with the car under shelter asap and have the quickest movement in history to get back on the road and to ensure I keep the air flowing in the back for the dogs and the car is constantly moving. If I am hungry and run out of food, I will do drive through to minimise time off the road, I will regularly check on all passengers and have water with me. All things which are designed to minimise discomfort and ensure the welfare of the passengers in my car.

Some days I have been on the road for up to 14 hours with pickups and drops in previous years. Not once do I just take a mental break from ensuring the welfare of my passengers the whole trip - afterall that is the purpose of my trip. Even when I have gotten home after a really long day and have no energy left to bleach and clean the pissy, shiitty and sometimes vomittus crates and car, I will check every single crate before I locked up the ute and stagger inside for a personal decontamination (i.e. clothes in tub and shower). Only then do I switch off and crash when there are no passengers left. I have never once locked the car and just gone inside and left animal in there, even on an hour or twos sleep on some occassions and a full day driving.

Your responsibility for a life (whatever species that may be) starts the second you take it into your care until the time you hand that life over to the next responsible person. Its not about being perfect, its about taking your responsibility for a life seriously, always. There's no ivory tower here, just taking the life of animals in my care as seriously as I ought to and so should have he. I have forgotten to hand over paperwork, leads, other minor things like this etc etc....but never a life, not even for a second. Its inexcusable.

This person should not be in charge of animal again until he can go through whatever courses or training deemed necessary by the RSPCA and Guide Dogs, endure the demotion that comes with possible being downgraded (and rightly so) while he is not training anyone else nor should he be and prove himself capable before handling an animal ever again. It would be a loss to the organisation I'm sure to lose out his skill base completely and fire him. However, same as anyone else at work who might undergo demotion, probabtion and extensive training before they are entitled, if ever, to return to their normal duties following a serious workplace incident, he should have no immediately responsibility for animals and a probation period while undergoing retraining to ensure the depths of his inaction are never repeated by him or anyone else.

May he serve as a reminder of how precious life can be whatever it is and her death not be in vain.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Just Andrea

[mantis]

As a senior experienced professional who should know better and who is charge of the welfare and training of animals on a daily basis, his behavior is inexcusable.

Other matters aside, i.e. a persons sympathy for the man or not, whether they would save their dog over someone elses kid, their child over someone elses are highly emotive and subjective and I won't buy into.

However, the facts are as stated in post 1 and on the website - he went inside to the office for 2 hours, forgot about the dog in car, the dog died as a result of his negligence. Again intentional or not is irrelevant. He failed to adequately fulfill his responsibiliites for the safety and welfare of this dog that was in his care. Pure and simple. He is 100% at fault.

Do I personally think he should be publically whipped or flogged - no, but there is no excuse for his action or lack thereof. He is paid for exactly what he does, train including transport animals to where they need to go. He is accountable.

When you are dealing with life there is no room for error. That's the whole reason this article made the news. It should never have happened. Someone did the wrong thing.

I have been in rescue for almost a decade (with no pay for what I do or SOP in place like he would have had in a well known organisation, all I have is my own common sense and some dog experience) and have transported hundreds and hundreds of animals over this time. EVERY time I transport them I plan crates, where animals are getting off and on and to who and eta's. If I am busting for a piss I will do it behind a bush or race to the toilet with the car under shelter asap and have the quickest movement in history to get back on the road and to ensure I keep the air flowing in the back for the dogs and the car is constantly moving. If I am hungry and run out of food, I will do drive through to minimise time off the road, I will regularly check on all passengers and have water with me. All things which are designed to minimise discomfort and ensure the welfare of the passengers in my car.

Some days I have been on the road for up to 14 hours with pickups and drops in previous years. Not once do I just take a mental break from ensuring the welfare of my passengers the whole trip - afterall that is the purpose of my trip. Even when I have gotten home after a really long day and have no energy left to bleach and clean the pissy, shiitty and sometimes vomittus crates and car, I will check every single crate before I locked up the ute and stagger inside for a personal decontamination (i.e. clothes in tub and shower). Only then do I switch off and crash when there are no passengers left. I have never once locked the car and just gone inside and left animal in there, even on an hour or twos sleep on some occassions and a full day driving.

Your responsibility for a life (whatever species that may be) starts the second you take it into your care until the time you hand that life over to the next responsible person. Its not about being perfect, its about taking your responsibility for a life seriously, always. There's no ivory tower here, just taking the life of animals in my care as seriously as I ought to and so should have he. I have forgotten to hand over paperwork, leads, other minor things like this etc etc....but never a life, not even for a second. Its inexcusable.

This person should not be in charge of animal again until he can go through whatever courses or training deemed necessary by the RSPCA and Guide Dogs, endure the demotion that comes with possible being downgraded (and rightly so) while he is not training anyone else nor should he be and prove himself capable before handling an animal ever again. It would be a loss to the organisation I'm sure to lose out his skill base completely and fire him. However, same as anyone else at work who might undergo demotion, probabtion and extensive training before they are entitled, if ever, to return to their normal duties following a serious workplace incident, he should have no immediately responsibility for animals and a probation period while undergoing retraining to ensure the depths of his inaction are never repeated by him or anyone else.

May he serve as a reminder of how precious life can be whatever it is and her death not be in vain.

:clap:

[Rosetta]

Very well said Just Andrea.

[labadore]

As a senior experienced professional who should know better and who is charge of the welfare and training of animals on a daily basis, his behavior is inexcusable.

Other matters aside, i.e. a persons sympathy for the man or not, whether they would save their dog over someone elses kid, their child over someone elses are highly emotive and subjective and I won't buy into.

However, the facts are as stated in post 1 and on the website - he went inside to the office for 2 hours, forgot about the dog in car, the dog died as a result of his negligence. Again intentional or not is irrelevant. He failed to adequately fulfill his responsibiliites for the safety and welfare of this dog that was in his care. Pure and simple. He is 100% at fault.

Do I personally think he should be publically whipped or flogged - no, but there is no excuse for his action or lack thereof. He is paid for exactly what he does, train including transport animals to where they need to go. He is accountable.

When you are dealing with life there is no room for error. That's the whole reason this article made the news. It should never have happened. Someone did the wrong thing.

I have been in rescue for almost a decade (with no pay for what I do or SOP in place like he would have had in a well known organisation, all I have is my own common sense and some dog experience) and have transported hundreds and hundreds of animals over this time. EVERY time I transport them I plan crates, where animals are getting off and on and to who and eta's. If I am busting for a piss I will do it behind a bush or race to the toilet with the car under shelter asap and have the quickest movement in history to get back on the road and to ensure I keep the air flowing in the back for the dogs and the car is constantly moving. If I am hungry and run out of food, I will do drive through to minimise time off the road, I will regularly check on all passengers and have water with me. All things which are designed to minimise discomfort and ensure the welfare of the passengers in my car.

Some days I have been on the road for up to 14 hours with pickups and drops in previous years. Not once do I just take a mental break from ensuring the welfare of my passengers the whole trip - afterall that is the purpose of my trip. Even when I have gotten home after a really long day and have no energy left to bleach and clean the pissy, shiitty and sometimes vomittus crates and car, I will check every single crate before I locked up the ute and stagger inside for a personal decontamination (i.e. clothes in tub and shower). Only then do I switch off and crash when there are no passengers left. I have never once locked the car and just gone inside and left animal in there, even on an hour or twos sleep on some occassions and a full day driving.

Your responsibility for a life (whatever species that may be) starts the second you take it into your care until the time you hand that life over to the next responsible person. Its not about being perfect, its about taking your responsibility for a life seriously, always. There's no ivory tower here, just taking the life of animals in my care as seriously as I ought to and so should have he. I have forgotten to hand over paperwork, leads, other minor things like this etc etc....but never a life, not even for a second. Its inexcusable.

This person should not be in charge of animal again until he can go through whatever courses or training deemed necessary by the RSPCA and Guide Dogs, endure the demotion that comes with possible being downgraded (and rightly so) while he is not training anyone else nor should he be and prove himself capable before handling an animal ever again. It would be a loss to the organisation I'm sure to lose out his skill base completely and fire him. However, same as anyone else at work who might undergo demotion, probabtion and extensive training before they are entitled, if ever, to return to their normal duties following a serious workplace incident, he should have no immediately responsibility for animals and a probation period while undergoing retraining to ensure the depths of his inaction are never repeated by him or anyone else.

May he serve as a reminder of how precious life can be whatever it is and her death not be in vain.

Excellent post and I totally agree, "his behavior is inexcusable" and your last para "May he serve as a reminder of how precious life can be whatever it is and her death not be in vain" is beautifully put. This is what being held accountable is all about, that hopefully, lessons will be learned from this tragedy from others in the profession and that the poor dog's life was valued as highly as it should have been and that everything possible is done to prevent another special service dog dying a horrific death due to the negligence of it's carer

[Sheridan]

Labradore, I'm still waiting on you to tell me where you got the information that he did it deliberately as you claimed.

[Jed]

Well said, Just Andrea.

Responsibility.

[Horsegal98]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Well, I don't have any children either.

If I had to choose between someone elses' children and my dogs, my dogs would get precedence every time.

I am responsible for my dogs, I am not responsible for other peoples children.

See, I don't get this. Are you saying if it was a life or death situation you would let a child die to save your dog? Note I am asking for clarification because I am not sure you really mean what I think you mean.

I would do that too. I will first save my dog and then any stranger.....child or adult!!! But I would do all I can to save anyone, human or animal. If you will save a strange child before your own, then and only then you would have the right to question this. Because we always prioritise what we love most.

Before I had kids, I probably would have saved my pets before strange children. Now I have the full gauntlet of maternal hormones it would be my children, other people's children, my husband, the pets, strange adults.

That fatal distraction article made me cry so much-- it was tragic.

[persephone]

I will first save my dog and then any stranger.....child or adult!!!

Oh.

I can not understand putting a threatened animal life above that of a threatened human life, or how anyone could justify it , and sleep well .

Imagine ,in a fire, for example ..when conditions are such that only one rescue can be made- imagine saving your pet, knowing a human is dying ... I can not imagine it , thankfully ....

If you will save a strange child before your own, then and only then you would have the right to question this.

This isn't quite correct ..

equating your dog as the child - that concept causes me some thought.

Most times , a child is the flesh & blood of a parent ..they are the parent's genes walking round ..and instinct demands we save our genetic material ... never mind morals, love & all the rest.

A dog is no way carrying any of your genes ...and saying you would save it as your own child is a worry.

Edited February 19, 2013 by persephone

[mantis]

I would save my child first, but then would risk my life to save my dog. When my rental property caught fire a few years ago, when I rang 000, they told me to get out of the house straight away, told them I had to get my dog first, they said forget the dog, like I would do that.

[Odin-Genie]

I will first save my dog and then any stranger.....child or adult!!!

Oh.

I can not understand putting a threatened animal life above that of a threatened human life, or how anyone could justify it , and sleep well .

Imagine ,in a fire, for example ..when conditions are such that only one rescue can be made- imagine saving your pet, knowing a human is dying ... I can not imagine it , thankfully ....

If you will save a strange child before your own, then and only then you would have the right to question this.

This isn't quite correct ..

equating your dog as the child - that concept causes me some thought.

Most times , a child is the flesh & blood of a parent ..they are the parent's genes walking round ..and instinct demands we save our genetic material ... never mind morals, love & all the rest.

A dog is no way carrying any of your genes ...and saying you would save it as your own child is a worry.

I sleep perfectly well, thank you.

Other people's children aren't carrying my genes, and what's the big deal about genes? Do people care less about their adopted children?

Don't presume to tell me how I should feel. As I have said before, my family first, strangers second!!! And only those who would save strangers before their own family have the right to question this. I don't care if you feel all human life is superior to other life forms. I don't. Let's leave it at that.