Guide Dog Dies In Hot Car

[HazyWal]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

[Tralee]

What I find interesting in the forgotten baby cases is that the parents are frequently not prosecuted, and when they are they frequently acquitted.

It seems when the full facts are considered, the courts often decide it is a genuine accident. Even in the face of baying for revenge by some. There but for the Grace of God.

Donatella, does your apology extend to calling me a troll?

Thank goodness for our justice system, while not perfect some people (as shown in this thread) would hang people on a sniff that they did something wrong. Judge, jury and executioner!

And as for making the comparison to nurses making error, who wouldn't have sympathy for a nurse who made an error that cost someone their life. Probably harder on themselves than anybody could be.

Hmmmm our justice system, what a joke that is. Perpetrators of the crimes seems to have more rights and decisions/viewpoints going in their favour than the poor victims. Lack of accountability and every excuse under the sun being trotted out to defend the perpetrators actions . How about standing up for the victims more, screaming out for justice for THEM instead!! This innocent victim doesn't have a voice, she doesn't have a life anymore, thanks to the negligence of her carer. I for one will not stand idly by and try and excuse this person's negligence by blaming it on some form of memory lapse/forgetfulness .

Lets not forget this poor dog DIED in the most HORRIBLE of circumstances This dog was going to provide a very valuable service and be the eyes for a poor blind/seeing impaired person.

Ok, so what would you like to happen to the guy who has probably spent a lot of time helping blind people?

And instead not standing idly by, what are you going to do?

At the very least this person should lose their job and should not be allowed to ever work with dogs as he cannot be trusted to fulfill his duty of care to them . I have been a longtime supporter of guide dogs and will be rethinking this support if this person does not lose their job/role over this incident and if appropriate measures are not taken to prevent a similar situation from happening. I will be doing what I can to find out more about this incident and am seriously contemplating a social media campaign to draw attention to this incident and other similar incidents in an effort to bring some focus on the plight of service dogs losing their lives due to the their handlers negligence/failing to fulfil their duty of care

What are you serious!

If you calm down and relax then we should all be able to see that the fault is actually due to the type of transport.

Quite clearly, a regulation needs to be introduced for the procurement and utilisation of special transport vehicles so that this type of tragedy cannot occur again.

Are you serious - you think a different vehicle would have protected this dog from this person's negligence this person's negligence killed this poor dog, he left the dog in the car in extremely hot conditions, the dog died a terrible and painful death. This person needs to be held accountable, this person needs to lose their job and the Guide Dog Association needs to have much more rigorous procedures for the safe transporting of their dogs and hiring more responsible people to take care of these special dogs. So no I don't plan on calming down anytime soon over this senseless, cruel and totally preventable death of a valuable guide dog.

Very serious.

Cars are made for people not dogs.

Just because dogs are transported in cars, with or without modifications, does not make the cars suitable for dogs.

Clearly from this tradgey cars are not suitable for dogs.

The employer has a responsibility to protect its employee.

Until we know if any protocol was breached it is premature to make any kind of hasty judgement.

There is contributory negligence on the part of Guide Dogs Association WA if there were no protocols in place for transporting their dogs in "passenger vehicles".

Clearly, what we have here are a number of different views but I do not prescibe to the simple minded one.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Tralee

[Tralee]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Well, I don't have any children either.

If I had to choose between someone elses' children and my dogs, my dogs would get precedence every time.

I am responsible for my dogs, I am not responsible for other peoples children.

[Are You Serious Jo]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Each to their own doesn't work when you are talking about what society decides are laws. If you don't want people to think you are in the dogs should be treated like kids camp then why start quoting me when I said they weren't the same? So basically you agree with me but just wanted a potshot?

[Are You Serious Jo]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Well, I don't have any children either.

If I had to choose between someone elses' children and my dogs, my dogs would get precedence every time.

I am responsible for my dogs, I am not responsible for other peoples children.

See, I don't get this. Are you saying if it was a life or death situation you would let a child die to save your dog? Note I am asking for clarification because I am not sure you really mean what I think you mean.

[Cosmolo]

I can't explain it. I would have thought it impossible until that day- i was extremely stressed, my horse was having emergency surgery and i thought he was going to die and there was an extremely quiet, still dog in the back- completely out of view. I'm sure my memory would have been triggered by not seeing her inside where she always is- but i guess i understand that if you didn't have something to trigger the memory and you HAD actually forgotten (therefore not a choice) it could happen.

It's unacceptable. It's horrible. I don't think being sacked is over the top as a consequence. But i also don't think the person (or people based on this thread- not just one person)is evil, nasty, disgusting etc. A person that made a terrible mistake is still a person.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Cosmolo

[Are You Serious Jo]

Well some seem to be saying the guy should have the same punishment as someone who killed a child. That to me seems to indicate that they put dogs on the same level as children. Nobody here knows the lengths I'm going to right now for my dogs and I love them intensely but if a human child and one of my dogs ere in the path of a car I'd have to save the child.

Have you forgotten all the threads that end up with people saying someone who has been cruel to a dog should be killed, we've had plenty of them :laugh: If I went back through this thread I think there are some string him up comments.

[Are You Serious Jo]

It shouldn't have happened and he does have to pay a price because these things have to serve as a reminder of what can happen if we aren't vigilant. I still don't think he should face the same severity of punishment as if it was a child. He could have faced manslaughter charges if it were a child and can't see how that would be appropriate for him. He didn't do this deliberately so his life shouldn't be ruined over it.

[Odin-Genie]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

They will never be human but they, as dogs, can be more important than some other humans you know. I like my dogs precisely because they are not human babies.

What I can't stand is the expectation that everyone should empathise with this person who callously caused the horrific death of a dog. Because, I'm pretty sure that no parent would forgive if another person caused their child to die callously. Dogs are not children, different laws apply. But laws and ethics aren't always the same.

[Odin-Genie]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Well, I don't have any children either.

If I had to choose between someone elses' children and my dogs, my dogs would get precedence every time.

I am responsible for my dogs, I am not responsible for other peoples children.

See, I don't get this. Are you saying if it was a life or death situation you would let a child die to save your dog? Note I am asking for clarification because I am not sure you really mean what I think you mean.

I would do that too. I will first save my dog and then any stranger.....child or adult!!! But I would do all I can to save anyone, human or animal. If you will save a strange child before your own, then and only then you would have the right to question this. Because we always prioritise what we love most.

[Are You Serious Jo]

It is only callous if he knew the dog was there but didn't care. It wasn't callousness at all, it was an accident. He forgot the dog was there. If he'd had a history of it then you could crucify the guy but who hasn't made mistakes? Are you saying you have never in your life done something that could have gone very badly? Callousness is a deliberate neglect, if you are going to have a go at people look up the definitions of the words if you don't know them.

[Are You Serious Jo]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Well, I don't have any children either.

If I had to choose between someone elses' children and my dogs, my dogs would get precedence every time.

I am responsible for my dogs, I am not responsible for other peoples children.

See, I don't get this. Are you saying if it was a life or death situation you would let a child die to save your dog? Note I am asking for clarification because I am not sure you really mean what I think you mean.

I would do that too. I will first save my dog and then any stranger.....child or adult!!! But I would do all I can to save anyone, human or animal. If you will save a strange child before your own, then and only then you would have the right to question this. Because we always prioritise what we love most.

Since you are here are you saying that if a car was coming and there was a child or your dog you'd save your dog and let the child die? Sure I'd save my child if it was between a strange kid and my own, but I'd never let a child die over my dog.

[Tralee]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Well, I don't have any children either.

If I had to choose between someone elses' children and my dogs, my dogs would get precedence every time.

I am responsible for my dogs, I am not responsible for other peoples children.

See, I don't get this. Are you saying if it was a life or death situation you would let a child die to save your dog? Note I am asking for clarification because I am not sure you really mean what I think you mean.

Quite frankly my dear, I'm not responsible for what you think I mean.

Where's 'the bird' emoticon.

[Are You Serious Jo]

So no clarification? You'd see a child die rather than one of your dogs?

[Odin-Genie]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Well, I don't have any children either.

If I had to choose between someone elses' children and my dogs, my dogs would get precedence every time.

I am responsible for my dogs, I am not responsible for other peoples children.

See, I don't get this. Are you saying if it was a life or death situation you would let a child die to save your dog? Note I am asking for clarification because I am not sure you really mean what I think you mean.

I would do that too. I will first save my dog and then any stranger.....child or adult!!! But I would do all I can to save anyone, human or animal. If you will save a strange child before your own, then and only then you would have the right to question this. Because we always prioritise what we love most.

Since you are here are you saying that if a car was coming and there was a child or your dog you'd save your dog and let the child die? Sure I'd save my child if it was between a strange kid and my own, but I'd never let a child die over my dog.

So you can value your child over a strange child but I can't value my dog more than a strange child?? So your feelings are more important than mine? That's double standard. And yes, that's exactly what I mean. I will save my dogs over a stranger under any circumstances. And mind you, it's not I who would let the child die, it would be the highly irresponsible parent who did not take care of their own child.

[Tralee]

So no clarification? You'd see a child die rather than one of your dogs?

You're second guessing and trying to paint others black.

The fact is: the community recognises that the general public are not responsible for other people's children.

Given, in a life or death situation people have an obligation to intervene.

But indeed, Council's enforce dog control orders on people to ensure other people's children are protected.

Yet, if someone wants to let their child wander into my yard, where it is not an offence under the Companion Animals Act 1998 (The Act) for the dogs to defend the property, then it is the community's problem and responsibility not mine.

But I expect you to twist this reasoning around for your own self interest, and be blowed with the integrity of the forum.

[Are You Serious Jo]

I value humans over dogs. You are proving my point that some think dogs are equal to humans. A child in danger doesn't have to be there through neglect sometime disasters happen and it's not the parent's fault. I just find it incredible that an adult would watch a child die to save their dog so that's why I'm asking. I can't imagine how I'd feel if somehow one of my kids died because someone chose to save their dog over my child. It would be interesting to hear if people with kids have the same viewpoint. I've never really subscribed to the argument that you can't comment on child issues unless you are a parent but maybe it is true.

[Tralee]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Well, I don't have any children either.

If I had to choose between someone elses' children and my dogs, my dogs would get precedence every time.

I am responsible for my dogs, I am not responsible for other peoples children.

See, I don't get this. Are you saying if it was a life or death situation you would let a child die to save your dog? Note I am asking for clarification because I am not sure you really mean what I think you mean.

I would do that too. I will first save my dog and then any stranger.....child or adult!!! But I would do all I can to save anyone, human or animal. If you will save a strange child before your own, then and only then you would have the right to question this. Because we always prioritise what we love most.

Since you are here are you saying that if a car was coming and there was a child or your dog you'd save your dog and let the child die? Sure I'd save my child if it was between a strange kid and my own, but I'd never let a child die over my dog.

So you can value your child over a strange child but I can't value my dog more than a strange child?? So your feelings are more important than mine? That's double standard. And yes, that's exactly what I mean. I will save my dogs over a stranger under any circumstances. And mind you, it's not I who would let the child die, it would be the highly irresponsible parent who did not take care of their own child.

I've been through this in another thread and am not at all embarrassed to admit that although I wouldn't know for sure unless I was put in that position I honestly think I would save my dog first. I know there is the age old argument that people should hold more value for all humans than any other living creature and that it's immoral to think any other way but you know what, it's all relative as far as I'm concerned. People instinctively try to save those who are most important to them and just as others have said their child is more important to them than someone else's child, my dog is more important to me than someone else's child. No, I'm not saying my dog is human, I'm saying he holds more value for me than a child I don't know. I will also accept that there are more people who will think I am a monster for feeling that way than there are who feel the same. So be it.

Not at all snook. You're not a monster.

Like you, I would cry over the loss of one of my dogs (and I have) long before I could feel the same sadness over the death of a stranger.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Tralee

[Janba]

So you can value your child over a strange child but I can't value my dog more than a strange child?? So your feelings are more important than mine? That's double standard. And yes, that's exactly what I mean. I will save my dogs over a stranger under any circumstances. And mind you, it's not I who would let the child die, it would be the highly irresponsible parent who did not take care of their own child.

Irresponsible parents are not the only reason a child can be in danger - look at natural disasters.

My dogs me the world to mean and are the main reason I keep going with the crap health I have but given the choice between saving them or a strange child I would choose the child. In 10 years time none of my dogs will still be alive but the child I save may have 60 or 70 years of life left. So much potential and who know that child may be the one who goes on to discover the cure for cancer.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Janba

[Are You Serious Jo]

I guess you don't get it either. Human children are not dogs and dogs are not human children, of course there are going to be different laws and treatment of them. Do you really think they are the same? You can be close to your dogs but they'll never be human.

Don't treat me like an idiot please Jo, I didn't say they were the same, I said each to their own.

Well, I don't have any children either.

If I had to choose between someone elses' children and my dogs, my dogs would get precedence every time.

I am responsible for my dogs, I am not responsible for other peoples children.

You said this and I asked you to explain what you really meant so I'm trying to make you out to be the bad guy I asked twice if you meant it how it reads and you want to remain cryptic so don't be surprised when people only have your original words to go by. What has the council got to do with it, I asked a question that was nothing to do with council regulations.

I understand that people feel the need to protect the things they love but I would like to believe that if it came down to it a person would reach for a child rather than their dog. I guess I better be looking out for number one at dog get togethers then because it seems that it shit goes down the dogs get saved first :laugh: