Breeders - Why & How Did You Start Out?

[Dogsfevr]

You certainly know jack about the problems ethical breeders of SBT are facing.

So every ethical breeder out there has no clue about the damage done by a small few .

Maybe if you took the broomstick out of your butt you may realize your breed is no more special & that breeders outside of your breed are well aware of what is going on & support like minded ethical breeders in any breed

Its people like yourself that give the good breeders a bad rep buy being such an arrogant person

You want to talk about yesterday, find someone who remembers poodles ever being anything other than a handbag with crook knees.

Poodles?

Whippets?

gee...there really is a flourishing BYB market in those two.

These comments alone show your lack of knowledge outside your little world which is very sad

Ready to put on the flame suit

[dancinbcs]

Im new to this forum, so Hi!

Im interested to find out from some breeders how they started out breeding and what made them decide to breed dogs?

Was it something your family was involved in?

Do you show or compete your dogs?

Do you breed as a business or is it just a hobby?

How did you select which studs and/or bitches to breed from?

Are your dogs just "breeders" or are they family members too?

Reason ive started this topic is because im in two minds at the moment.

Id love to breed dogs as a hobby. But im well aware of the amount of dogs that end up at shelters and I feel uncomfortable about contributing to that.

The dog I love and own is a Staffordshire. (Please no judgement needed - I know how many stafford breeders there are out there)

So this is not something im about to jump into lightly as im fully aware of the responsibilities of dog ownership and reputable breeder standards.

Id love to hear from peoples thoughts on this topic!

I came from a horsey background and like many successful breeders I know, I started out by waiting months for a really good show quality puppy to be available with the intention of doing obedience and showing if he was good enough. He gained his show Championship, some obedience titles and became a Best In Show winner. Breeding had not been in the plans at all but after three years in the breed being mentored by some of the best breeders of the previous 2-3 decades, I started looking for a good foundation bitch with their help. I found a suitable bitch puppy and showed her until she was 2 years old before breeding my first litter, so had 5 solid years of showing, trialling, studying the breed and picking the brains of all the old hands, before my first litter was born. 30 years later, I have the last of my line now and have provided foundation stock to and have mentored some newer breeders.

Like all my breeder friends, my dogs are part of my family and live out their lives here. None of us breed as a business because done properly, breeding is a very expensive way of life. Choosing the right breeding partners can run into thousands if you need to fly a bitch interstate or use frozen semen to access the right dog for that bitch. Years of advance planning and pedigree research often go into each mating. My girls only ever had 1 -3 litters each and some of my litters were bred in partnership with others to expand my gene pool as I was limited on numbers in suburbia. I was also limited time wise in having to save up holidays for at least two years to have the time to raise a litter the way I wanted to. I have also served on dog club committees and sub-committees for many years.

Another thing to consider is that with an over-populated breed, you may not be able to sell the puppies at 8 weeks and then you have to run them on until the right homes come along. This can be very expensive and time consuming as they all need socialisation and training at this age. Is the bitch you have now suitable to breed with? Is she on main register and have you had any required health testing done and had her assessed by several prominent breeders, if you are not showing? Do you have a few thousand dollars available to gamble on a litter? If all goes well you get your money back plus a little for 8 weeks work raising them. If things go wrong you can outlay the money and end up with no live puppies to sell. Becoming a breeder is a big step and the bitch you have now may not be a suitable one to start with. In a rarer breed the decision to breed is a bit easier but with the "breed of the moment" you would need to do an awful lot of study and soul searching before adding to the numbers being born. Responsible breeders are responsible for the puppies they produce, for their whole lives and will take back any of their puppies who need rehoming at any age, ensuring none ever end up in a pound or shelter. Having said all that your most valuable asset as a breeder is a good, very experienced mentor who has achieved great success in the breed.

[cruzzi]

So every ethical breeder out there has no clue about the damage done by a small few .

Maybe if you took the broomstick out of your butt you may realize your breed is no more special & that breeders outside of your breed are well aware of what is going on & support like minded ethical breeders in any breed

Its people like yourself that give the good breeders a bad rep buy being such an arrogant person

You want to talk about yesterday, find someone who remembers poodles ever being anything other than a handbag with crook knees.

Poodles?

Whippets?

gee...there really is a flourishing BYB market in those two.

These comments alone show your lack of knowledge outside your little world which is very sad

Ready to put on the flame suit

Why would you need a flame suit?

Is a flame suit the dress of choice for those who talk the talk but don't walk the walk?

The "damage is being done" by more than a small few (sic).

I am passionate about purebreed dogs in general & SBT's in particular.

In "my world" SBT's really are special, the most special special of the special in fact.

Do you have a problem with that?

I would have thought everyone considered their preferred breed to be the most special.

Silly me.

So toy poodles weren't reknown for luxating patellas & there is a thriving market for byb whippets?

Gee, who'd a thunk it.

Then again, maybe I'm just a realist who does actually know what they are talking about?

Unlike some.

[espinay2]

Cruzzi if you know what you are talking about, how about actually making a contribution by answering the original question which asked breeders about THEM.. So far I can't see anything from you but a lot of posturing and hot air. You may know what you are talking about but frankly your posts don't show it.

Edited February 7, 2013 by espinay2

[cruzzi]

Cruzzi if you know what you are talking about, how about actually making a contribution by answering the original question which asked breeders about THEM.. So far I can't see anything from you but a lot of posturing and hot air. You may know what you are talking about but frankly your posts don't show it.

My first comment would have been my last except for the sarcastic reply.

It snowballed from there.

I have no intention in encouraging anyone I consider to be looking to make a quick buck by exploiting pure breeds.

Especially SBT's.

[Schnooze]

Wow such great responses! Thanks everyone who has shared their story.

I have enjoyed reading them all. It's so interesting to hear how you all started out!

I will definitely speak to some breeders I know, with the view of mentoring. Thanks for that great suggestion!

Cruzzi, I'm sorry that the discussion got off on the wrong foot for you. Why don't you tell us a little about your breeding journey? Is like the chance to get to know you better. Who knows we might be rubbing shoulders one day hey?

[Christina]

You want to talk about yesterday, find someone who remembers poodles ever being anything other than a handbag with crook knees.

So toy poodles weren't reknown for luxating patellas

Gee, who'd a thunk it.

Then again, maybe I'm just a realist who does actually know what they are talking about?

Unlike some.

:laugh: You sure do know how to rattle peoples cages & stir them up

However re the poodles you have a point except that I do remember as a child people having poodles with good legs & patella problems are not only a thing of the past, they are current. In poodles & lots of breeds, especially small dogs but can affect larger dogs sometimes.

New breeders do need some encouragement & knowledge & one of the places they get it from is from established breeders & one hopes it is the right information they are given.

Regardless of money or motive the main thing is that healthy dogs with good temperament that are a good representation of the breed is what is produced.

One can't influence the first but may, hopefully, influence the later.

[BJean]

Im new to this forum, so Hi!

Im interested to find out from some breeders how they started out breeding and what made them decide to breed dogs?

Was it something your family was involved in?

Do you show or compete your dogs?

Do you breed as a business or is it just a hobby?

How did you select which studs and/or bitches to breed from?

Are your dogs just "breeders" or are they family members too?

Reason ive started this topic is because im in two minds at the moment.

Id love to breed dogs as a hobby. But im well aware of the amount of dogs that end up at shelters and I feel uncomfortable about contributing to that.

The dog I love and own is a Staffordshire. (Please no judgement needed - I know how many stafford breeders there are out there)

So this is not something im about to jump into lightly as im fully aware of the responsibilities of dog ownership and reputable breeder standards.

Id love to hear from peoples thoughts on this topic!

okay then don't breed.

[raineth]

Wow such great responses! Thanks everyone who has shared their story.

I have enjoyed reading them all. It's so interesting to hear how you all started out!

I will definitely speak to some breeders I know, with the view of mentoring. Thanks for that great suggestion!

Cruzzi, I'm sorry that the discussion got off on the wrong foot for you. Why don't you tell us a little about your breeding journey? Is like the chance to get to know you better. Who knows we might be rubbing shoulders one day hey?

I'm not thinking about breeding, but I think this is great topic schnooze and I have enjoyed reading all the posters that wrote about their experiences of starting out, and I hope more breeders will respond with their story of starting out.

[espinay2]

We need good breeders in our breeds. To do that we need to encourage new people and to help them. Not everyone is out to make a buck at the expense of the breed. Just think about it folks - YOU can't be the only one who got into it with 'pure' motives. Unless you want to be judged as you yourself are judging? (for the record, this is not aimed at anyone in particular, but it can pay to do some introspection occasionally - does everyone like what they see? When you were new, how were you treated and how would you want to be treated?) I am sure too that any concientious breeder has at one time or another sat down and asked the 'hard' questions of themselves about whether what they can achieve will benefit or not when it comes to looking at the bigger picture. We are slammed every day with the 'don't breed' mantra so confronting the issue for ourselves is something that will inevitably need to be done and something all new breeders are up against coming into a culture that is more and more anti breeder - well done to those even getting as far as questioning it in this AR driven climate! Things are often not black and white and frankly looking at these types of issues for themselves is something I would expect any thinking person to do and something most good breeders will have done to a greater or lesser extent at one time or another. What makes it ok for an established breeder (who was a new breeder once) to breed, but not ok for a new person to even consider it? We really need to look long term at what we are doing. Who will look after our breed when we are dead and gone, just as we are looking after it for those that came before us? Where will their knowledge come from if we don't give it to them? Schnooze, keep asking your questions. As far as I am concerned, you are asking the right ones and showing that you want to learn. The fact that you are asking them shows you are prepared to consider your actions and you are thinking. I hope you do find some in your breed (and others) who are willing to see that you are where the future lies and to help you be the best that you can be - if that is what you choose to do at some point down the track.

FWIW.

[WExtremeG]

Im new to this forum, so Hi!

Im interested to find out from some breeders how they started out breeding and what made them decide to breed dogs?

Was it something your family was involved in?

Do you show or compete your dogs?

Do you breed as a business or is it just a hobby?

How did you select which studs and/or bitches to breed from?

Are your dogs just "breeders" or are they family members too?

Reason ive started this topic is because im in two minds at the moment.

Id love to breed dogs as a hobby. But im well aware of the amount of dogs that end up at shelters and I feel uncomfortable about contributing to that.

The dog I love and own is a Staffordshire. (Please no judgement needed - I know how many stafford breeders there are out there)

So this is not something im about to jump into lightly as im fully aware of the responsibilities of dog ownership and reputable breeder standards.

Id love to hear from peoples thoughts on this topic!

Hi Schnooze - welcome to the forum :)

I can answer some of these questions for you, not as a breeder- but as a daughter of a breeder

For my mum (going back about 30 yrs) the first time she fell in love with a particular breed was when she was at a park, and a dog went streaming across the park that caught her eye. After talking to the owner of the dog she researched the breed and found a reputable breeder who exhibited their breed in shows and trials.

She bought a show potential puppy and showed it and trialed it- the bitch went on and won numerous awards and trophies- addiction was in full place! My mum bought more show potential puppies and showed them along with the original bitch- though they did well, not quite as well as the first. My mother started researching the lines and worked out what would mesh well with her original bitch- and produced 10 puppies more than half went to pet homes where the people had no interest in showing or breeding, a few went to show potential homes and one puppy bitch was kept on. those that went to show homes did well in shows however we received updates on all even though we moved countries! :)My Mum bred one more litter from the original bitch and one litter from her daughter before not breeding or showing again due to her health.

[Salukifan]

Unless people are encouraged to become responsible breeders, the breed does not go forward. Here's an opportunity Cruzzi - to encourage, not insult. Your digs at the OP and I and at my breed of choice contribute NOTHING to the future of your breed of choice. Have a good think about that. Its just vitriol.

As a matter of fact, why don't you tell me anything at all you know about anything?

You certainly know jack about the problems ethical breeders of SBT are facing.

I clearly know more than you about an ANKC sport that involves finding quail. :)

And I'm hardly unaware of the problems faced by ethical breeders confronted by a sea of profit breeding of their breed of choice due to fashion and demand. It's hardly a new issue. But you don't get it do you? An innocent question asking about how people got started as breeders deserves better than a bunch of bile from someone who could offer a valuable persepective if they chose to. You want a new generation of responsible SBT breeders? How about you do something about to encourage someone to get started the right way?

Or butt out and let others do what you seem incapable of - saying somethign constructive about anything.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Tapua]

I love dogs - I always have since a kid. I have had a prefix since 1991 I have been a member of Dogs NSw since 1987... I think. I chose a Bench Kelpie as a companion/obedience dog after my son died in '90. No 'ifs' nor 'buts' Biddy was purely to fill a whole in my heart. She was a great dog who was competant in obedience and a tad better than that in he ring. So I bred her. At the time I had undergraduate training in human health and genetics and felt I had an understanding of sorts for the care and welfare of my dog. I bred a few litters, they awere moderately successful in the ring. I became a threat to other showies who were small minded about newbies. I eventually gave up on the breed because of petty, manipulative and down right abusive people who refused to acknowledge that there were serious health issure developing in the breed due to bad breeding practices IMO. Plus my ego got in the way - I thought I should have been listened to. I was wrong.

After a break from breeding, a run with cancer and a new husband who is very supportive I closed my previous prefix and took up my current one with my husband and began the breeding of Labradors. My aim is to breed Labs for a purpose, - assitance dogs, guide dogs, sniffer/detection dogs and to that end I have a number of dogs currently in service. I learnt from my previous breeding experience to priorities health issues and because I personally like good looking dogs yes I select for looks as well - I like good looking dogs - I dont see why thay cant be smart and good looking.

My breeding program is based on breeding sound brood bitches with temperament, health, type and brains in place. I am satisfied that my dogs are competative with numerous classes in Show and Group a RUBIG and placing at the 2 Nationals, and the last year the State Lab Show and Sydney Royal. I am very proud of the Labs I have bred over the last 5 years and the various dogs I have bred or trained in the past who are successfull service dogs for the intellectually disabled, Police, the blind and the wheelcahir bound. All are well heathly and live a purposeful life. Some peopel have also bought dogs for the purpose of obedience, Rally O or as much loved family dogs. They deserve healthy dogs too.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Tapua

[cruzzi]

Unless people are encouraged to become responsible breeders, the breed does not go forward. Here's an opportunity Cruzzi - to encourage, not insult. Your digs at the OP and I and at my breed of choice contribute NOTHING to the future of your breed of choice. Have a good think about that. Its just vitriol.

As a matter of fact, why don't you tell me anything at all you know about anything?

You certainly know jack about the problems ethical breeders of SBT are facing.

I clearly know more than you about an ANKC sport that involves finding quail. :)

And I'm hardly unaware of the problems faced by ethical breeders confronted by a sea of profit breeding of their breed of choice due to fashion and demand. It's hardly a new issue. But you don't get it do you? An innocent question asking about how people got started as breeders deserves better than a bunch of bile from someone who could offer a valuable persepective if they chose to. You want a new generation of responsible SBT breeders? How about you do something about to encourage someone to get started the right way?

Or butt out and let others do what you seem incapable of - saying somethign constructive about anything.

I choose not to encourage people when I am suspicious of their motives.

I say what I think, if you don't like it?...care factor zero.

I do encourage & mentor new SBT owners after I have met them face to face.

I explain everything I know about the breed.

I especially elaborate the bit about how they can get dog aggressive as they mature.

They get the full spiel, warts & all.

I receive many inquries by word of mouth recommendations.

Most just want a family pet & the pleasing communications I receive gushing what a wonderful choice they made despite some initial reservations from the false information & horror stories about the breed.

Guess which breeders are the source?

The kind you think ethical responsible breeders should encourage sight unseen>

Right now I have a staffy "novice'' who has taken the step & hit the show ring.

we correspond regularly & she has learned how to show by correspondence.

She is bloody good at now & all.

Despite some success in the ring. A first in class at the breed speciality wasn't too shabby..

It's the breed that has captured her heart & she is now seriously contemplating taking the next step.

Breeding is not an instant thing, breeding is a learning curve & the desire to produce the best damn dog the world has ever seen.

She is the best owner I have ever had the pleasure of selling a puppy & I wish her every success.

& you know what?

I will be informed of every step, the good times & the disappointments.

There should be more of it.

When you assume.....you make an ass out of u....not me.

Edited February 8, 2013 by cruzzi

[minimax]

When you assume.....you make an ass out of u....not me.

Ironic, considering the huge assumptions you made of the OP.

And you came out looking like the ass.

[cruzzi]

When you assume.....you make an ass out of u....not me.

Ironic, considering the huge assumptions you made of the OP.

And you came out looking like the ass.

I came out smelling like a rose.

No regrets.

[Salukifan]

Nope, bad idea.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[raineth]

When you assume.....you make an ass out of u....not me.

Ironic, considering the huge assumptions you made of the OP.

And you came out looking like the ass.

I have to agree, it is cruzzi making all the assumptions here what a disappointing way to treat someone who is looking to acquire information and knowledge.

[Schnooze]

We need good breeders in our breeds. To do that we need to encourage new people and to help them. Not everyone is out to make a buck at the expense of the breed. Just think about it folks - YOU can't be the only one who got into it with 'pure' motives. Unless you want to be judged as you yourself are judging? (for the record, this is not aimed at anyone in particular, but it can pay to do some introspection occasionally - does everyone like what they see? When you were new, how were you treated and how would you want to be treated?) I am sure too that any concientious breeder has at one time or another sat down and asked the 'hard' questions of themselves about whether what they can achieve will benefit or not when it comes to looking at the bigger picture. We are slammed every day with the 'don't breed' mantra so confronting the issue for ourselves is something that will inevitably need to be done and something all new breeders are up against coming into a culture that is more and more anti breeder - well done to those even getting as far as questioning it in this AR driven climate! Things are often not black and white and frankly looking at these types of issues for themselves is something I would expect any thinking person to do and something most good breeders will have done to a greater or lesser extent at one time or another. What makes it ok for an established breeder (who was a new breeder once) to breed, but not ok for a new person to even consider it? We really need to look long term at what we are doing. Who will look after our breed when we are dead and gone, just as we are looking after it for those that came before us? Where will their knowledge come from if we don't give it to them? Schnooze, keep asking your questions. As far as I am concerned, you are asking the right ones and showing that you want to learn. The fact that you are asking them shows you are prepared to consider your actions and you are thinking. I hope you do find some in your breed (and others) who are willing to see that you are where the future lies and to help you be the best that you can be - if that is what you choose to do at some point down the track.

FWIW.

Encouraging words. Thankyou :)

[Starkehre]

Hi Schnooze. Welcome.

I, like some other started out in horses, breeding, starting and showing. I also had pedigreed cats and showed them.

After being mildly involved in Bull Terriers and Dobermanns, I soon discovered my passion for Rottweilers around 13 years ago.

My first Rotti, though a pedigreed entire bitch on terms, was not a show dog. I trained and trialled her in Agility and she became the first ADM JDM Rottweiler in the country.

I spent many years being mentored by her breeder always with a yearning to breed, but never being in any hurry or certain that I would ever actually breed.

I purchased my 2nd Rottweiler from the same breeder several years later and became involved in showing. Since then I have put 13 ANKC recognised titles on said bitch in 5 different disciplines (including Agility, Herding, ET, Obedience and Conformation) and she was leased back to her breeder for her first litter.

My plan was to have her 2nd litter, but she contracted Immune Mediated Thrombocytopaenia (as did my first bitch) so I chose to desex and not breed with her.

To date I have now had 5 pedigreed Rottis (4 of which I still have) and have been mentored by several long time breeders over a total period of around 15 years. I have been a registered breeder for around five years, but have still not have my first litter. I am always researching information about the breed looking to gain as much knowledge and experience as I possibly can. And though I now feel very close to finally feeling worthy of having a litter, I think there will always be some element of doubt in my mind. It still may never happen, but if this is because of my ethics, then I can live with that.

It has taken me 5 dogs to finally obtain a specimen that I would even consider breeding with as my foundation bitch and it is still too early to confirm this with my latest bitch.

All our dogs that do not make the cut for breeding (failed health testing, poor conformation or other) all stay with us and remain our beloved pets and working dogs. They all lead full lives and compete in dog sports.

I have become a member of around 10 different breed, working and kennel clubs that I am involved with and I donate to as many club events as I can afford to do as my way of supporting clubs that support and promote my chosen breed.

If I do finally get to breeding a litter, my gut feeling is that I may only ever have one or two, as time is getting on for me and we have limited space when I don't rehome. I am not against rehoming, I wish I could do it sometimes, it just isn't something that sits well with me personally.