Family Pet Mauled To Death

[mymatejack]

I wonder how some of these small dog owners would feel if they owned a larger breed. I'll put forward a little scenario. You're walking your large dog on leash down a suburban footpath. You've spent countless hours during his/her life socialising and training it and it's a perfect family pet, gets on well with other dogs and loves people. Out of nowhere a little snappy tom launches an aggressive yap fest in your dogs face, your dog reacts and with one bite kills or seriously injures the yapper. Things can happen that are beyond your reasonable control. What do you think the news report will say? Which dog do you think will cop the death penalty? Do you seriously think that's fair?

Providing the big dog is on leash and the little dog was off leash in a public place and gets chomped, bad luck. An owner of a leashed dog is not held responsible for the consequence of an attack by a dog at large not under effective control.

Cleary that should be the case, but if there were no witnesses do you really think that would be the likely outcome?

[Santo66]

I wonder how some of these small dog owners would feel if they owned a larger breed. I'll put forward a little scenario. You're walking your large dog on leash down a suburban footpath. You've spent countless hours during his/her life socialising and training it and it's a perfect family pet, gets on well with other dogs and loves people. Out of nowhere a little snappy tom launches an aggressive yap fest in your dogs face, your dog reacts and with one bite kills or seriously injures the yapper. Things can happen that are beyond your reasonable control. What do you think the news report will say? Which dog do you think will cop the death penalty? Do you seriously think that's fair?

Providing the big dog is on leash and the little dog was off leash in a public place and gets chomped, bad luck. An owner of a leashed dog is not held responsible for the consequence of an attack by a dog at large not under effective control.

Cleary that should be the case, but if there were no witnesses do you really think that would be the likely outcome?

Yes..........off leash dogs have no rights over leashed dogs in a public place. If there were no witnesses, there are no stories in contradiction to be considered.

[WoofnHoof]

I've owned big dogs and little dogs and irregardless of the propensity for yapping ultimately it is owner irresponsibility which is the problem. By the account in the OP the little dog was minding its own business and was attacked, there is no reason to believe the attack was provoked or that the little dog was yapping or behaving aggressively and to make the assumption that it was based on the dogs size and nothing else is ridiculous. Little dogs don't have the market cornered on aggressive behaviour, any dog can behave aggressively its how the owner manages it that counts.

[Rosetta]

All I am reading time and time again are variations of the same theme. Small dogs barking at big dogs = an attack and therefore they deserve to get "chomped". Barking is not the same as a physical attack - therefore the "the small dog started it" argument does not wash.

mmmm.....must think of some equivalent terms to SWF, yappers, ankle biters, fluffballs (have I missed any?) etc when referring to big dogs - I am sure their owners won't be offended will they??

Really I have never understood the hatred some people have for small dogs - immature really.

And the idea that this owner went quietly off and had his dog PTS? Pleeeeze.

[tdierikx]

If you own a large dog and intend to take it out in public, it needs to be under enough control for it NOT to react to ANY stimuli in an aggressive manner... it's that simple.

I own large dogs, and they've been rushed at, barked at, and outright set upon by other dogs of all shapes and sizes... but I have never allowed them to react in kind to any of those stimuli.

My Rotti/Pittie cross girl was once jumped on by another bull breed dog who wasn't looking to play - she stood there quietly while I grabbed the other dog by the collar and got him off her, and I was nearly bitten by that dog in the process (funnily enough no owner in sight). She has also been rushed at aggressively by smaller dogs whose owners thought that sort of thing was funny, and she just looks at me to help her out of those sort of situations. That's MY job as her owner (and protector)...

If you have ANY dog that is likely to react badly to certain situations, then it is YOUR responsibility to NOT place your dog in those situations. It's not rocket science people!

T.

[doggleworth]

I wonder how some of these small dog owners would feel if they owned a larger breed. I'll put forward a little scenario. You're walking your large dog on leash down a suburban footpath. You've spent countless hours during his/her life socialising and training it and it's a perfect family pet, gets on well with other dogs and loves people. Out of nowhere a little snappy tom launches an aggressive yap fest in your dogs face, your dog reacts and with one bite kills or seriously injures the yapper. Things can happen that are beyond your reasonable control. What do you think the news report will say? Which dog do you think will cop the death penalty? Do you seriously think that's fair?

It's pretty clear that you have a real problem with little dogs.

As someone who has owned everything from a german shepherd down to a aussie terrier maybe you should stop trying because all you are doing is showing how biased and ignorant your attitudes are.

The little dog is not always to blame. It's a nonsensical argument similar to blaming a rape victim for what she wore.

I've seen a larger dog be let off leash at one side of an oval, race across and knock my small dog to the ground grabbing it by the throat, and trying to shake it. If by provocation by dog existing, breathing oxygen and being in the park is "provocation" then I guess he "deserved" to be attacked. The larger dogs stupid owner didn't come over to help, his dog latched onto me and tore my arm open down to the bone-and still didn't come over. I was holding my arm to hold the wound together, my husband had our little dog over his head and the other dog was still attacking. Sometimes it is entirely the fault of the larger aggressive dog. The fact that my little dog is now very fear aggressive is entirely due to his being attacked.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I wonder how some of these small dog owners would feel if they owned a larger breed. I'll put forward a little scenario. You're walking your large dog on leash down a suburban footpath. You've spent countless hours during his/her life socialising and training it and it's a perfect family pet, gets on well with other dogs and loves people. Out of nowhere a little snappy tom launches an aggressive yap fest in your dogs face, your dog reacts and with one bite kills or seriously injures the yapper. Things can happen that are beyond your reasonable control. What do you think the news report will say? Which dog do you think will cop the death penalty? Do you seriously think that's fair?

I'd say if your large dog is likely to kill or attack any other animal then you muzzle it when out in public.

I owned a Lakeland Terrier. He was the most gorgeous looking small dog but due to mistreatment he didn't like men at all, coming into the house. On our walks, he elicited a lot of interest, due to him looking like a fluffy teddy bear. People would just stoop down without warning and put their face close to his. Luckily he never did anything but because I was not going to allow him to - once we saw his behaviour in our house when he bit a couple of male visitors that insisted on trying to pat him even though we warned them, he wore a muzzle in public from then on.

I have owned large dogs too and I can tell you that they didn't have an ounce of aggression in them (towards other animals or people) or I would not have adopted them. I'm not interested in owning aggressive dogs, plain and simple but if I should end up with one by accident somehow, then they would be muzzled at all times.

[Santo66]

I would agree to say that there are many little dogs who act aggressively and because they are little and easy to handle they are perceived by their owners as too small to do much damage, and sometimes they even like the behaviour in the form of humour or cuteness how their little dog wants to fight big dogs in admiration of the little dog's bravado and they don't work at correcting the behaviour as one would with a big dog of the same behaviour that is hard to handle and will cause damage if the behaviour is allowed to manifest?.

I have had countless situations walking my big dogs where little dogs on retractor leads are driven so hard to attack my dogs they are running on their sides pulling on the leash so hard in an aggressive frenzy and the owners are giggling and smiling. At the same time, my dog is ready to explode into defense as it's plain obvious that the little dog is trying to mount an attack..........size doesn't matter in the dog's mind, if a little dog is DA he/she will take on a big dog given the opportunity, only we see the consequence and understand it, the dogs don't see things the way we do, the big dog see an aggressor a threat and reacts, but the problem is the same level of defence from the big dog on a dog it's own size may cause a small flesh wound, where applied to a small dog can mean death at the same level of defence.

We don't really know what dogs communicate to each other to trigger an attack, what the little dog is saying to the big dog, we only see yapping and lunging as harmless dog behaviour that doesn't deserve death as the consequence of the behaviour........owners of little dogs need to understand this at a greater depth whether a dog is big or small, if it displays threatening, challenging, aggressive, body language towards other dogs or towards people for that matter regardless of size, the behaviour uncorrected will get worse with time......my point is that aggression control applies to "all" dog owners, not just those who's dogs are big enough to cause significant damage if an attack should occur.

On a side note just before Christmas, I had a DD order placed on a little dog of around 4-5kgs by council who for the 3rd time ran out of it's front yard to attack my big dogs. I tried to kick the little dog off biting my big dog's front legs and the dog grabbed my pants leg puncturing the skin on my ankle which in the process of all this, my big dog wanted to kill it in defence..........what a horrible encounter trying to stop my dog defending which he had the rights to do in the circumstances and stop the little dog attacking me in the matter of seconds......I felt sick at the thought of my dog getting hold of this little dog who wouldn't back off.....at least the DD order has kept the little dog inside it's yard now where it should have been in the first place.

I'm sick of hearing about savage "yappy dogs" from MyMateJack.

I think MyMateJack has a valid point in the sense that owners of aggressive small dogs are the least likely to work at correcting the behaviour from my experiences anyway. They often believe that aggression control is reserved for owners of larger dogs and breeds known for damage if aggression escalates out of control. Getting attacked by a Pitbull, GSD or Rottweiler has much more impact than an attack from a Silky Terrier or the like is the metality and is less likely to be reported to council.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Santo66

[Sheridan]

You do know that the dog killed on the beach was a mini schnauzer. They are not a little dog.

[Rebanne]

I said a few posts back that I wasn't referring to this particular situation.

then start a thread elsewhere and take your whining there

[Santo66]

You do know that the dog killed on the beach was a mini schnauzer. They are not a little dog.

A mini wouldn't be much more than 8kg if that, still no match for 25/30kg dog.....a GSD is considered a medium sized dog so a mini Schnauzer is still quite a small dog I would think?

[Sheridan]

You do know that the dog killed on the beach was a mini schnauzer. They are not a little dog.

A mini wouldn't be much more than 8kg if that, still no match for 25/30kg dog.....a GSD is considered a medium sized dog so a mini Schnauzer is still quite a small dog I would think?

The point is, since you and mymatejack have missed it, this is about a mini schnauzer that was killed. You and others have come in bitching about little dogs as if that excuses one dog killing another. Just stop it.

[Tralee]

You do know that the dog killed on the beach was a mini schnauzer. They are not a little dog.

A mini wouldn't be much more than 8kg if that, still no match for 25/30kg dog.....a GSD is considered a medium sized dog so a mini Schnauzer is still quite a small dog I would think?

A GSD is a large breed.

No offence meant.

[Rebanne]

You do know that the dog killed on the beach was a mini schnauzer. They are not a little dog.

A mini wouldn't be much more than 8kg if that, still no match for 25/30kg dog.....a GSD is considered a medium sized dog so a mini Schnauzer is still quite a small dog I would think?

A GSD is a large breed.

No offence meant.

no they are classed as a medium breed

[mymatejack]

Haven't come across any littlies behaving badly in this area.

It's hard to take anyone seriuosly when they make statements like that

[mymatejack]

You do know that the dog killed on the beach was a mini schnauzer. They are not a little dog.

A mini wouldn't be much more than 8kg if that, still no match for 25/30kg dog.....a GSD is considered a medium sized dog so a mini Schnauzer is still quite a small dog I would think?

The point is, since you and mymatejack have missed it, this is about a mini schnauzer that was killed. You and others have come in bitching about little dogs as if that excuses one dog killing another. Just stop it.

and you've come in(using your laws of interpreting posts) saying that all little dogs should have absolute immunity to do what they please. Do you really think that?

Edited March 2, 2013 by mymatejack

[tdierikx]

No mymatejack... the issue is whether any dog should react to any stimuli in a way that causes the death of another dog. Quite simply... it's NOT tolerated.

The people posting here who have small dogs AREN'T defending the fact that some small breed dogs may have owners that allow them to display inapporpriate behaviours in public spaces - but they ARE defending their right to be able to walk THEIR dogs without being targetted by larger breed dogs whose owners haven't socialised them properly.

But you are probably going to keep ignoring that fact, aren't you? It's way more fun for you to make this about "small yappies getting their just desserts"... *sigh*

T.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Haven't come across any littlies behaving badly in this area.

It's hard to take anyone seriuosly when they make statements like that

You have an English comprehension problem, quite obviously. It says you live in Victoria on your profile. Unless you live in the same place as me - in a suburb in Sydney's north - how can you say that what I'm saying is a lie?

I state, again, that I have not had any problems with savage small dogs in my area. My dogs have been attacked several times but never by small dogs, nor were they anywhere nearby inciting violence. Nor were my small dogs inviting those attacks, they were simply walking along on their leads. In every case the dogs rushed at us, sometimes they had owners nearby, sometimes not.

Left home with the dogs on Wed morning and right at the end of my drive I was confronted with a loose staffy cross that I'd never seen before.

I chose not to tempt fate and took my dogs back inside after yelling at the dog and stopping it in its tracsk as it ran towards us. I tehn went back out to try and catch the dog. I followed it into a new neighbour's yard, back gate wide open. Another neighbour said that they had seen the dog out the day before.

What to do with people like that? I said I would call the council and they need to put a collar and tag on their dog and not let it wander to get run over and/or scare people - even those without dogs.

My dogs didn't have time to "yap" in terror but even if they did, whose fault would it have been if the incident had escalated. Definitely NOT MINE.

[Rosetta]

You do know that the dog killed on the beach was a mini schnauzer. They are not a little dog.

A mini wouldn't be much more than 8kg if that, still no match for 25/30kg dog.....a GSD is considered a medium sized dog so a mini Schnauzer is still quite a small dog I would think?

The point is, since you and mymatejack have missed it, this is about a mini schnauzer that was killed. You and others have come in bitching about little dogs as if that excuses one dog killing another. Just stop it.

and you've come in(using your laws of interpreting posts) saying that all little dogs should have absolute immunity to do what they please. Do you really think that?

For someone complaining about others comprehension skills that statement is really ironic.

I think you are really just enjoying getting a reaction to your outrageous attitude towards small dogs.

[tdierikx]

I've had my large dogs aggressively rushed by small dogs many times... but it's still MY responsibility to make sure that MY dogs don't react to the "threat" in a negative manner...

Everyone is responsible for their OWN dogs' behaviour in public... and no-one should expect to be rushed or attacked by ANY dog. BUT, if you own a dog that could do lethal damage and is likely to react badly in public, then please either keep the dog at home, get a qualified behaviourist/trainer, and only ever take the dog to places where it won't be stimulated to react badly.

It is NOT your "right" to exercise a reactive dog in a public space where it could do something unexpected and either injure or kill another dog - provoked or otherwise.

T.