We Have Been Betrayed

[espinay2]

The latest is that NSW might be in support... :S

DogsNSW Board of Directors meet/vote on Wednesday. Tom Couchman has advised me that he will be voting against the motion. I do not know how others on the Board will be voting though.

I recommend Dogs NSW members contact members of the board to state their views (Remember to keep things factual and non abusive if you actually want your views considered!)

You can find contact details here: http://dogsnsw.org.a...-directors.html

Naturally how the DogsNSW ANKC representatives then vote on the issue when the ANKC meets will depend on how this vote goes.

I understand SA voted unanimously against it?

Edited February 3, 2013 by espinay2

[Sheridan]

Then counter with that dogs that are imported can still be shown. Locally bred dogs need to comply with local laws. I find it disturbing that people may be deliberately harming puppies just to get a docked tail and frankly if they are doing this, they should be banned from breeding and showing.

Really - just because this has been written in the motion / letter does not mean that it is happening. They have supplied NO PROOF that this has occurred - do you really believe that this is happening ?

I don't know if it is happening and have already said that proof should be presented. The motion said that a substantial number of dogs are being shown docked. Surely, that can be proved or disproved?

[cruzzi]

This isn't about being pro or anti docking at all. It's about an official trying to get a motion through without consultation with members and also about restricting the use of dogs in Australia that are legally docked. There are no laws here that say a person can't own or import a legally docked dog so why the ANKC push to rule against them? It will essentially kill the import of some breeds and if they go that step further and try to stop breeding with legally docked dogs shrinking gene pools will be even smaller. No wonder people are giving up.

The reason there are elected officials is so it not necessary to get permission from the entire community to propose a piece of legislation.

Unfortunately, like politicians, some elected officials think once they are in they have carte blanche to do what ever they THEY want.

It won't matter that it is legal to own a legally docked dog if the ANKC decides no docked dogs can be exhibited at an ANKC sanction show, no docked dog will be allowed to be exhibited.

I don't doubt there are exhibitors/breeders using "mischievious'' means to legally dock puppies.

However, anyone who makes such an allegation should have to put up or shut up.

Such allegations without documented proof should have serious consequences for the accuser.

Edited February 3, 2013 by cruzzi

[Steve]

This isn't about being pro or anti docking at all. It's about an official trying to get a motion through without consultation with members and also about restricting the use of dogs in Australia that are legally docked. There are no laws here that say a person can't own or import a legally docked dog so why the ANKC push to rule against them? It will essentially kill the import of some breeds and if they go that step further and try to stop breeding with legally docked dogs shrinking gene pools will be even smaller. No wonder people are giving up.

The reason there are elected officials is so it not necessary to get permission from the entire community to propose a piece of legislation.

Unfortunately, like politicians, some elected officials think once they are in they have carte blanche to do what ever they THEY want.

It won't matter that it is legal to own a legally docked dog if the ANKC decides no docked dogs can be exhibited at an ANKC sanction show, no docked dog will be allowed to be exhibited.

I don't doubt there are exhibitors/breeders using "mischievious'' means to legally dock puppies.

However, anyone who makes such an allegation should have to put up or shut up.

Such allegations without documented proof should have serious consequences for the accuser.

Absolutely if it is voted in it is now an agreeance that they think theY DO have members who are capable of this and it taints all ANKC registered breeders. Animal rights love this stuff and it goes so well with accusations that ANKC SHOW breeders are cruel wicked creatures for breeding the in-bred suffering creatures they do ex pedigreed dogs exposed.

[yarracully]

People who say this isn't about tail docking itself have it only partly right. Tail docking is illegal and no lamenting about it will change the law but unless pedigree dog breeders want further laws they have to abide by the ones there are already. Because the reaction to people breaking laws is always more laws. Bringing in new laws is always easier than policing existing laws. The bad apples always ruin it for everyone else.

A simple way around people illegally docking is that no locally bred dog can be shown if it's docked. People will actually learn not to illegally dock when they cannot show their dogs. If this means these apparently great people stop breeding then so be it. That's up to them. Is having a docked tail worth more than the breed itself? I think if people answer yes to that then there is something drastically wrong with your world view.

While it may not stop people faking import certificates to show a dog is imported when it isn't, perhaps Dogs Vic should do some work on confirming an import before registering it. The days when the ANKC simply touts itself as a registry are gone.

The motion doesn't say "Any locally bred dog" it says "Any dog" which means even a legally docked imported dog is banned

[Sheridan]

This isn't about being pro or anti docking at all. It's about an official trying to get a motion through without consultation with members and also about restricting the use of dogs in Australia that are legally docked. There are no laws here that say a person can't own or import a legally docked dog so why the ANKC push to rule against them? It will essentially kill the import of some breeds and if they go that step further and try to stop breeding with legally docked dogs shrinking gene pools will be even smaller. No wonder people are giving up.

The reason there are elected officials is so it not necessary to get permission from the entire community to propose a piece of legislation.

Unfortunately, like politicians, some elected officials think once they are in they have carte blanche to do what ever they THEY want.

It won't matter that it is legal to own a legally docked dog if the ANKC decides no docked dogs can be exhibited at an ANKC sanction show, no docked dog will be allowed to be exhibited.

I don't doubt there are exhibitors/breeders using "mischievious'' means to legally dock puppies.

However, anyone who makes such an allegation should have to put up or shut up.

Such allegations without documented proof should have serious consequences for the accuser.

Absolutely if it is voted in it is now an agreeance that they think theY DO have members who are capable of this and it taints all ANKC registered breeders. Animal rights love this stuff and it goes so well with accusations that ANKC SHOW breeders are cruel wicked creatures for breeding the in-bred suffering creatures they do ex pedigreed dogs exposed.

Well, there's a couple of different possibilities.

1. The guy's barking mad and/or lying. This would probably be most people's in this thread's favourite but it's unlikely he's just gone crazy.

2. The ANKC has been infiltrated by AR whacktivists. Not likely unless it's a long term plan by a long time breeder to get rid of dogs. No really, not likely.

2. They suspect people are illegally docking puppies and are taking a shot in the dark to put the frighteners on. More likely.

3. They have proof that people are illegally docking dogs and are putting the frighteners on to get them to stop without involving the authorities. More likely.

4. They have proof and are getting in before one or more members are charged with illegal docking by the police because these people have indeed been reported by veterinarians. This way they can say, 'Hey, we were doing something about it' to show they're a responsible state body. This works even if the motion fails cos they can say, 'Well, we tried to do something about it.' More likely.

Take your pick.

[Alyosha]

Yes - the animal rights people are just sitting back laughing at all of us.

And if the allegations of pups being mutilated in order to get them docked are even close to being true, then those breeders have no one but themselves to blame and need to be seriously considering their actions.

Rumours like this bring all dog breeders into disrepute. Ffs if your breed was formerly docked and now can't be, just bloody deal with it and don't try and find a million other sneaky ways to get them docked regardless.

I had a pup born in my last litter with a broken tail - it certainly happens. But whole litters? I seriously hope these are rumours and not truth. Bad enough just being a rumour.

[klink]

As long as we have people with the attitude of this peanut representing members of our canine bodies we are all seeing the final demise of the purebred dog scene. Over the years prior to the docking ban NO canine body showed the guts' to stand up to the bleeding hearts and all their renta crowd cohorts.

As usual most people in the dog world are only concerned about their own sucess and financial gain and in the preceeding docking ban years nobody could unite all of us for a fight against this threat.Get over the sour grapes and if you dont' want to import a LEGALLY docked dog stop whinging about a level playing field in the dog showing world, IT HAS NEVER BEEN A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD in the 30years I have been showing. ( a docked breed , dogs suprisingly well adjusted and socialable dogs, neither paronoid nor man eaters because of the immense trauma suffered because of the horrific experience of docking.

[DobieMum]

Gonna put on the flame suit here and ask about importing a docked dock and not being able to do anything with it. At the moment there are still dogs being imported from other countries that have cropped ears (because this is what these countries do), when here, these dogs cannot be shown (can't comment on other disciplines - cause I don't know) but we still import them. Why?

[cruzzi]

An accusation has been made.

There should consequences.

One way or another.

[Janba]

Gonna put on the flame suit here and ask about importing a docked dock and not being able to do anything with it. At the moment there are still dogs being imported from other countries that have cropped ears (because this is what these countries do), when here, these dogs cannot be shown (can't comment on other disciplines - cause I don't know) but we still import them. Why?

For their genes

[Janba]

Another question.

Why are legally docked dogs docked to what is normal for docking in that breed not to 1 or 2 vertebrae below the injury as the end of the tail is more likely to be injured than towards the base. When I had a dog injure aa tail (non docked breed) and it looked like it would have to be amputated the vet was going to do the amputation 2 vertebrae below the injury not near the base.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Because if the dog has injured the tail once then it is likely the dog will injure it again so why put the dog through repeated operations?

[Steve]

This isn't about being pro or anti docking at all. It's about an official trying to get a motion through without consultation with members and also about restricting the use of dogs in Australia that are legally docked. There are no laws here that say a person can't own or import a legally docked dog so why the ANKC push to rule against them? It will essentially kill the import of some breeds and if they go that step further and try to stop breeding with legally docked dogs shrinking gene pools will be even smaller. No wonder people are giving up.

The reason there are elected officials is so it not necessary to get permission from the entire community to propose a piece of legislation.

Unfortunately, like politicians, some elected officials think once they are in they have carte blanche to do what ever they THEY want.

It won't matter that it is legal to own a legally docked dog if the ANKC decides no docked dogs can be exhibited at an ANKC sanction show, no docked dog will be allowed to be exhibited.

I don't doubt there are exhibitors/breeders using "mischievious'' means to legally dock puppies.

However, anyone who makes such an allegation should have to put up or shut up.

Such allegations without documented proof should have serious consequences for the accuser.

Absolutely if it is voted in it is now an agreeance that they think theY DO have members who are capable of this and it taints all ANKC registered breeders. Animal rights love this stuff and it goes so well with accusations that ANKC SHOW breeders are cruel wicked creatures for breeding the in-bred suffering creatures they do ex pedigreed dogs exposed.

Well, there's a couple of different possibilities.

1. The guy's barking mad and/or lying. This would probably be most people's in this thread's favourite but it's unlikely he's just gone crazy.

2. The ANKC has been infiltrated by AR whacktivists. Not likely unless it's a long term plan by a long time breeder to get rid of dogs. No really, not likely.

2. They suspect people are illegally docking puppies and are taking a shot in the dark to put the frighteners on. More likely.

3. They have proof that people are illegally docking dogs and are putting the frighteners on to get them to stop without involving the authorities. More likely.

4. They have proof and are getting in before one or more members are charged with illegal docking by the police because these people have indeed been reported by veterinarians. This way they can say, 'Hey, we were doing something about it' to show they're a responsible state body. This works even if the motion fails cos they can say, 'Well, we tried to do something about it.' More likely.

Take your pick.

Yeah you're right - either way its all pretty shocking and way past time to sort it out.

[Janba]

Because if the dog has injured the tail once then it is likely the dog will injure it again so why put the dog through repeated operations?

My dog never injured it again and Dallies are prone to injuring their tails from over exuberant wagging.

[Are You Serious Jo]

But that is one dog, you can't say that because your dog does this all dogs do that, especially since your dog is not a traditionally docked breed.

[Janba]

But that is one dog, you can't say that because your dog does this all dogs do that, especially since your dog is not a traditionally docked breed.

I am not anti tail docking for traditionally docked breeds.

Even some non traditional breeds can be very prone to tail injuries and you learn to manage. My current dally (not the one who broke her tail by wagging it against an umbrella stake) has has a split tail by wagging against things.

[lils mum]

I own a traditionally docked breed - Hungarian Vizsla. Quite a number of Vizslas have had tails amputated following injury since implementation of the docking ban/legislation. These dogs have primarily been companion dogs, and the owners have no slant on docking. The introduction of this proposal would see these dogs unable to compete in any ANKC sanctioned event - field/retrieving trials, agility, obedience, rally, etc. What a farce!

Edited February 3, 2013 by lils mum

[WreckitWhippet]

I own a traditionally docked breed - Hungarian Vizsla. Quite a number of Vizslas have had tails amputated following injury since implementation of the docking ban/legislation. These dogs have primarily been companion dogs, and the owners have no slant on docking. The introduction of this proposal would see these dogs unable to compete in any ANKC sanctioned event - field/retrieving trials, agility, obedience, rally, etc. What a farce!

I spent time with one such bitch today, bright future ahead of it, has damaged her tail and broke it open at my place today. If such loonies have their way, there goes her sporting career

[klink]

Why are we still having comments re the import of Legally docked dogs, with members asking why are they still importing dogs' than cannot be shown ? as we speak it is still legal under Australian law to have a dog with a docked tail, and currently it is still able to be shown, It is only members of our hallowed dog bodies that are trying to stop LEGALLY docked dogs being shown NOT the government. We can all think of various things in the dog world that we all dont' agree with ,but for God's sake be united in something that although it may not affect you it might be to the benefit of the overall dog showing scene.

Get into your state body and TELL them how you feel about this peanuts' motion.