Auto Immune Disease

[fbaudry]

Here is what's happening to us. My apologies for the long winded story, it's a vent as well as a quest for information..

I started fostering Will, a possibly abused Tenterfield terrier, in June 2011. He had been at the AWL for 4 months when I took him on, and was vaccinated in March 2011.

I ended up adopting him in September 2011 (and added Penny to the household in October).

Fast forward to June 2012. I took him to the vet to get a 3 yearly booster. The vet decided to give him a yearly one, on the basis we didn't know his past immunization protocols. I now kick myself for taking him at all...

In July, he started acting strangely. He would be reluctant to go for walks, act very submissive and sometimes scream when I put my hand towards him or when I took a step towards him. After these instances he would avoid me, as if I was the cause of his pain.

This progressed to him yelping in pain when he was in his bed or in a particular room in the house. He would then avoid this spot for a while.

The vet originally dismissed this as behavioural issues. Will is hard to examine because he is so tense and shakes like a leaf.

Very soon, this progressed to him not being able to eat. He would come to his food bowl, scream and turn around. Sometimes he'd be able to grab a morsel but would yelp, drop it and go away.

After examining his mouth etc under GA and not finding anything, the vet took a blood sample and sent it out to a lab in California to test for masticatory muscle myositis.

Will was put on antibiotics for 2 weeks to clear a possible infection. No change at all under the medication, and the test came back all clear. And then he started getting better, and got back to his normal self!

The issue came back in November; this tine we were referred to the North Shore vet hospital. The vet originally suspected a brain tumour, and performed a CT scan which came back perfect.

The week after, Will went back and was cut open in 5 different spots (2 on his head, 1 on his right side and 2 on his back leg) for a muscle biopsy. The samples were sent to the same lab in California.

The results show he suffers from an auto immune myopathy (which is present in all his muscles, not just the face). The way I understand it is that his system is over reacting and attacking his own muscles.

We were at the specialist today, and we agreed to try and wean him off the prednisol over the coming month (he's been on it for 2 months now). It is likely the issue will come back, and we might try another medication due to the side effects of cortisone.

One of the interesting (or sad, depending on how you look at it) things is that the specialist said "make sure you don't vaccinate ever again. You might do parvovirus every 3 years, but he's got immunity for all the rest. Don't do KC, don't do distemper".

I was aware of the risks of over vaccinating and I really hate myself for thinking I might have been the cause of his issues. Really not sure what to do with Penny as well. Our training club demands current vaccination certificates, as well as boarding kennels.

Has anyone else got experience with similar situations? I'm hoping it is manageable in the long term (provided there's no muscle necrotisation).

How did you go about with places demanding vacc certificates?

Thank you all for bothering to read this...

[Stitch]

I've not faced this kind of terrible disease before but I do sympathise and would like to say your dedication to finding the cause of the problem is absolutely amazing.

I would think that as long as you had a letter from your vet explaining things that it would then be up to the various clubs/kennels etc. to either accept him or not. Perhaps your vet might be able to give an indication as to how likely it would be your dog would catch or carry distemper etc.

I hope this terrible disease proves to be manageable in the future for you.

[kayla1]

The poor little boy. Sorry I don't have any experience with this, but I was just wondering how old he is?

[JulesP]

Sorry you are going through this.

Amber has something different but I was told not to vaccinate her. It meant I pulled her out of dog school and I can't kennel her. Kenneling would be a problem anyhow as she needs constant monitoring so I would only be comfy having qualified vet staff looking after her. Dog club said they would accept titre testing or a letter from the vet.

Will your dog club accept titre testing? you could do that if they did.

[Erny]

I've not heard of this disease either, so I'll be no help to you I'm afraid. I can only tell you that with my own dog, I have worked for the majority of his 4.5 year life trying to balance his system (as a whole - immune and digestive system inclusive) and am still working on it - with some improvement but not to say without the reappearance of symptoms. Not the same as yours *touch wood*. He has symptoms of furunculosis (not saying it is furunculosis, but the symptoms are similar) and has ear-margin vasculosis, both of which I believe go back to an immune system issue.

At present I've returned to resorting to a DNA Hair test. Some of the results from this were quite amazing, as the person who runs these tests didn't know of some of the symptoms which affect my boy, mainly I guess because I didn't consider them to be a part and parcel of the mainstream issue.

I'm in the process of administering the prescribed mainly naturopathic forumulas to him. We're nearly at the end of week 2 and the naturopath (?) suggests 4-6 weeks before we should expect to identify results. Consequently I am unable to report to you the success or failure or otherwise of what we're doing, but thought it might be worth mentioning now in the event you wanted to give this process a whirl. $120 for DNA test on the dog's hair. Obviously some $ on whatever is prescribed to suit the results. Re-testing is generally done at 6 weeks and is free.

If you want the name of the person I went to, let me know.

I completely agree with and applaude your Vet for advising no vaccinations. Your dog's immune system is compromised enough without enduring more assault. Regards your training club, get a letter from your Vet confirming the advice for no more vaccinations and present it to your Club together with expression of your willingness to sign a disclaimer against any disease your dog might contract as a result of attending the Club's training days. This might prove to be sufficient for them to make special dispensation allowing you to continue training without the vaccination cover they generally insist on.

Good luck. Your Vet sounds quite switched on.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Erny

[fbaudry]

Thank you all for your kind words; Will is probably around 3, though it is hard to tell as he was picked up as a stray.

Dog club is not so much an issue for him (though I thought of enrolling him at some stage to help with his confidence), it is more for Penny because I'm really having 2nd thoughts about keeping on vaccinating her.

Our local club still lives in the dark ages and last time I asked they had no idea what titre testing was

Incidentally Penny became very itchy after her 3rd puppy booster. Of course the vet dismissed my concerns but the dermatologist we are now seeing seems to think there could be a link

As for boarding, the specialist said they would board him at the clinic if need be. It's just that they would be split up, and I don't think he'd cope very well in a that sort of environment.

I might start talking with a few kennels to see what their position is.

According to the specialist, he would have immunity for distemper and the rest possibly for life, and at least for 7 years or so... As for KC, I boarded him in September and he came back with it despite bring vaccinated. There are so many strains of it that it's all a bit pointless really...

[temperamentfirst]

I do not vaccinate our dogs once they are over 3, except when our girl was going to be mated.

Re boarding, we have a wonderful dog and house sitter, so we don't have to worry about the yearly vaccination requirements.

Having Kaitlyn move in is way better than any kennel, so it's a win win for us:-) All our animals are much happier staying at home and being pampered.

[nowstarin]

Just as an aside to your queries, I (myself) Human variety suffer from A serious Auto Immune Disease and I am on several treatments one of which is immuno suppressant drugs. I have been advised to NEVER RECEIVE VACCINATIONS due to the inability to tolerate or effectively build immunity to such vaccines and the extreme risk of acquiring the vaccine virus.

I am also undergoing a radical treatment of an infusion every 8 weeks of a TNF Blocker (similar to Chemotherapy) and it is working (YAY FINALLY) but I suffer NONE of the normal side effects of chemo treatments (ie n hair loss etc etc) I am at extreme high risk of Opportunistic viruses but so far (4 years) touch wood I haven"t even had a cold. I too suffered serious muscle and pain related issues but now am relatively pain free.

I would advise you to seek options for Immuno-suppressant treatments for your canine buddy and leave all other treatments alone whilst commencing it. Give a time frame of 4-6 months treatment then review it. It has an accumulative effect so needs time to "kick In"

A dog cannot tell you what wrong but I as a human can. It is painful and frustrating and tests caused me more anguish than good. Auto immune diseases are so varied and complex and all behave differently but ALL respond to the same style of radical treatment.

I hope this may help you. good luck with your canine freind.......... :

(Added) I have been on cortico steroids and pred as well but have weaned off them now (8 months ago). They are the best releif but as your vet advised the side affects are too great to remain on them long term. i am steroid free on the new radical treatment.

Edited February 1, 2013 by nowstarin

[fbaudry]

Thank you! Definitely something worth looking into... I tried suggesting natural therapies to the specialist but he didn't really want to engage on the topic...

Trying to attach pics of my little mite post surgery

And in happier times, with his little big sister

[fbaudry]

Erny, I'd be quite interested in your naturopath; I'm in Stdney though, not sure it makes a difference.

I agree, the specialist seems very good. I used to like my regular vet but I've become disillusioned. He really pushes hard (re vaccinations, wanting me to desex Penny as soon as she turned 6 months, selling Hills etc etc)... I'm yet to find the ideal vet close to home...

[Erny]

Erny, I'd be quite interested in your naturopath; I'm in Stdney though, not sure it makes a difference.

I agree, the specialist seems very good. I used to like my regular vet but I've become disillusioned. He really pushes hard (re vaccinations, wanting me to desex Penny as soon as she turned 6 months, selling Hills etc etc)... I'm yet to find the ideal vet close to home...

The DNA testing and analysis gives them what they need to know in terms of imbalances etc. so there's generally no need for them to see the dog as they work off the results of the DNA. I'll PM you his details.

[fbaudry]

Great! Thank you so much

[3BW]

My dog also has an autoimmune disease - discoid lupus - which is basically her body attacking her skin. I believe it developed from having a vaccination at a time when her immune system had been compromised ( wasp sting, cortisone injection and being in season ) Fortunately an excellent vet researched other treatments, so she would not be on cortisone forever. She is on a high dose of a particular antibiotic ( which we get on prescription at the local chemist ) as well as a combination of various vitamins and fish oil. I have been able to manage the disease well for four years with this treatment. Because her symptoms are easy to see, it is possible to monitor the disease and vary her doses as required. Interestingly, it flares up at changes of season and times of high stress ( for her, thunderstorm season ).

We too have been advised to limit vaccination. The vet has indicated they would write an explanation to boarding kennels etc if the need arose.

She is now 7 and recently had a 3 year vacc and will probably have no more.