Rebanne Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Whats to ask. The OP was breeding unregistered dogs to make unregistered pups. Nothing more than a byb in my eyes cashing in on a 'rare' colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Whats to ask. The OP was breeding unregistered dogs to make unregistered pups. Nothing more than a byb in my eyes cashing in on a 'rare' colour. Insert "Like" button here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outsider question, but how hard is it to get a standard amended? Have there been many or any instances of this happening in recent decades (in any breed)? Merle Danes used to be on the main register and a few year back this was changed to only allow them to be limited registered. I believe there was a recent approach to the ANKC to have this reversed without any luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outsider question, but how hard is it to get a standard amended? Have there been many or any instances of this happening in recent decades (in any breed)? the ONLY way a standard can be amended is via the country of origin - ANKC have an agreement that they will not change the standard unless it comes through the original founder country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle Mum Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outside of the breeding aspect of the previous topic, which I didn't read at all, why can't parti poodles be registered? Is it a health thing? Some reason why a parti poodle wouldn't be allowed to do the job for which the poodle was originally bred? Or is it just one of those irritatingly stupid no reason for it ANKC things? They can be Limited Registered if they crop up in a Main Registered litter. They just can't be obviously be used for breeding within our and other registries. My take on it is... the op should have taken notes of lines known to carry the "parti" gene and rally up others who also like the gene and either create another registry or lobby for the dogs with that colouring to be accepted eventually into the ANKC registry. Thats right Parti coloured poodles can't be used in a breeding program here in Aust. I also put this link in the other thread.. this is the breed standard. http://www.ankc.org.au/Breed_Details.aspx?bid=196 It clearly lists parti colours as a fault. Why breed dogs for obvious faults...other than your own person preferance...she said she imported a couple....and the other reason is.....$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 the current regs with the ANKC is that dogs with non recognised colours are placed on the limited register - in other words not to be used for breeding - not because it causes health issues etc though some may but because they don't agree with breeding with a dog with a fault. You have more chance of getting the ANKC to reverse the regs for not allowing non recognised colours on the main registry than you have of getting the ANKC to amend a breed standard if the amendment hasn't come through country of origin. Chances of either happening - remote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outside of the breeding aspect of the previous topic, which I didn't read at all, why can't parti poodles be registered? Is it a health thing? Some reason why a parti poodle wouldn't be allowed to do the job for which the poodle was originally bred? Or is it just one of those irritatingly stupid no reason for it ANKC things? They can be Limited Registered if they crop up in a Main Registered litter. They just can't be obviously be used for breeding within our and other registries. My take on it is... the op should have taken notes of lines known to carry the "parti" gene and rally up others who also like the gene and either create another registry or lobby for the dogs with that colouring to be accepted eventually into the ANKC registry. Thats right Parti coloured poodles can't be used in a breeding program here in Aust. I also put this link in the other thread.. this is the breed standard. http://www.ankc.org....ls.aspx?bid=196 It clearly lists parti colours as a fault. Why breed dogs for obvious faults...other than your own person preferance...she said she imported a couple....and the other reason is.....$$ Why is it a fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Why is it a fault? because the country of origin say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 It is only a fault because when the standard was written they only allowed solid colours. There is no health reason. There are dogs being shown and bred with true faults (eg overjoyed, bad hips etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) It is only a fault because when the standard was written they only allowed solid colours. There is no health reason. There are dogs being shown and bred with true faults (eg overjoyed, bad hips etc). Thats about it My link As evidenced by numerous paintings and drawings from the 1700s and 1800's, as well as historical documentation in Emily Cain's Poodle History Project, the parti color was once common in Poodles; however, sometime around the turn of the 20th century, Poodle clubs in England and the United States chose to prohibit all but solid-colored Poodles in the conformation ring. As there is no written rationale given for this decree, it is reasonable to believe that it was done simply at the whim of those in power at the time. Edited January 27, 2013 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Why is it a fault? because the country of origin say so. Ah, the 'just because' reason. It is only a fault because when the standard was written they only allowed solid colours. There is no health reason. There are dogs being shown and bred with true faults (eg overjoyed, bad hips etc). My link As evidenced by numerous paintings and drawings from the 1700s and 1800's, as well as historical documentation in Emily Cain's Poodle History Project, the parti color was once common in Poodles; however, sometime around the turn of the 20th century, Poodle clubs in England and the United States chose to prohibit all but solid-colored Poodles in the conformation ring. As there is no written rationale given for this decree, it is reasonable to believe that it was done simply at the whim of those in power at the time. Looks like JulesP was right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Why is it a fault? because the country of origin say so. Ah, the 'just because' reason. It is only a fault because when the standard was written they only allowed solid colours. There is no health reason. There are dogs being shown and bred with true faults (eg overjoyed, bad hips etc). My link As evidenced by numerous paintings and drawings from the 1700s and 1800's, as well as historical documentation in Emily Cain's Poodle History Project, the parti color was once common in Poodles; however, sometime around the turn of the 20th century, Poodle clubs in England and the United States chose to prohibit all but solid-colored Poodles in the conformation ring. As there is no written rationale given for this decree, it is reasonable to believe that it was done simply at the whim of those in power at the time. Looks like JulesP was right on the money. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 It is only a fault because when the standard was written they only allowed solid colours. There is no health reason. There are dogs being shown and bred with true faults (eg overjoyed, bad hips etc). Thats about it My link As evidenced by numerous paintings and drawings from the 1700s and 1800's, as well as historical documentation in Emily Cain's Poodle History Project, the parti color was once common in Poodles; however, sometime around the turn of the 20th century, Poodle clubs in England and the United States chose to prohibit all but solid-colored Poodles in the conformation ring. As there is no written rationale given for this decree, it is reasonable to believe that it was done simply at the whim of those in power at the time. It seems like it was a whim. But I would wonder if the whim was for all poodles to be solidly coloured with no loss of pigmentation, rather than just a whim to get rid of the parti dogs. If encouragement was given for this gene to increase in the poodle population, would it mean that solid dogs would start to appear with white chest patches and toes? Maybe the motivation is to stop this happening as much as it is to stop the attractive parti pattern happening. Parti isn't just a colour, it's a gene that would be carried by solid dogs too. So by deciding to accept parti, they decide to accept something that might affect all poodles (or divide the breed) If may have been decided on a whim, but it shouldn't be undecided without understanding what all possible consequences might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frufru Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Don't worry you can also be disqualified for not enough hair in the right places but a shocking front, over angulated rear or giraffe neck is liable to see you win a ribbon. If your show prospect has said spot on chest you simply dye it and then act surprised when they throw mismarked puppies. Edited January 27, 2013 by frufru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Don't worry you can also be disqualified for not enough hair in the right places but a shocking front, over angulated rear or giraffe neck is liable to see you win a ribbon. If your show prospect has said spot on chest you simply dye it and then act surprised when they throw mismarked puppies. Well if they allow parti, but a white chested solid is still classed as a fault, a lot more people will be resorting to hair dye. Maybe both faults should be allowed to be registered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meea Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Whats to ask. The OP was breeding unregistered dogs to make unregistered pups. Nothing more than a byb in my eyes cashing in on a 'rare' colour. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Don't worry you can also be disqualified for not enough hair in the right places but a shocking front, over angulated rear or giraffe neck is liable to see you win a ribbon. If your show prospect has said spot on chest you simply dye it and then act surprised when they throw mismarked puppies. :laugh: sorry but I had to laugh at that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frufru Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Parti poodle at a show in Germany where the title Neufarbenseiger is awarded 3rd gen UKC title holder Edited January 27, 2013 by frufru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 This page is from a really good website that explains the genetics behind the parti pattern for anyone that missed the links in the deleted thread. White S Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teekay Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 Whats to ask. The OP was breeding unregistered dogs to make unregistered pups. Nothing more than a byb in my eyes cashing in on a 'rare' colour. I didn't actually get the impression she was in it for the money and I still maintain the thread did not 'promote' parti poodles. The discussion was sensible and informative. Oh And to keep things clear. Can someone please point me to the rule that says we cannot discuss purebreeds that are not registered. I still can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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