Are You Serious Jo Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 There are people who breed two registered dogs together and either can't or won't register the puppies and they are usually called BYBers. If we accept this breeder as being legit then why not those I've just described. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) No different to someone who has two limited registered dogs, breeds them, would register if they could but can't .. It all adds up to the same BYBer Edited: as my M key appeared not to work Edited January 27, 2013 by WreckitWhippet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 No different to someone who has two liit registered dogs, breeds them, would register if they could but can't .. It all adds up to the same BYBer Does it? If they are two different breeds then the result is a cross-breed. This is the same as a person with two same pure-breeds breeding (with all the boxes ticked) a pure bred litter but no ANKC paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lils mum Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 As I said on the other thread, the partis and phantoms can be registered in the UK and as we don't have any disqualifying faults, such a colour could be shown (although not likely to place as it has a non recognised colour) ........... What I can find that UK breed standard for Standard Poodles says "Colour All solid colours. White and creams to have black nose, lips and eye rims, black toenails desirable. Browns to have dark amber eyes, dark liver nose, lips, eye rims and toenails. Apricots and reds to have dark eyes with black points or deep amber eyes with liver points. Blacks, silvers and blues to have black nose, lips, eye rims and toenails. Creams, apricots, reds, browns, silvers and blues may show varying shades of the same colour up to 18 months. Clear colours preferred. Non solid colours are highly undesirable and should be heavily penalised. And this Acceptable Colours for Registrations Apricot Black Blue Brown Cream Red Silver White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 The op was breeding unregisterable dogs- no different to that of a backyard breeder. Isn't it? The dogs would be acknowledged as "pure-breed" (ie bred pure to the standards of breed stabilisation), wouldn't they (missed the discussion). The breeder wants to register but can't because the ankc don't have a slot for them. Isn't a back-yard-breeder someone who is breeding cross-breeds and/or someone who is breeding pure-breeds but doesn't want to register them with ankc? Just because ankc doesn't have a box to put a particular pure breed of dog in, should the breeder be stigmatised with the label of byb in the general sense that byb is used? Perhaps the problem is that the term "byb" is used to describe two different things? An indiscriminate breeder of cross-breeds with no ambition to stabilise to a pure-breed, and a byb, and that's why terminology gets so tangled and one is tarred with the same brush as the other? With all due respect to Troy, I tend to agree that if the rules are about what the ANKC permit, should the title of the forum be altered to reflect that, rather than have the title purport to embrace pure breeds of dogs. This of course would narrow things by precluding breeds formally recognised by other International organisations, though. This particular person was breeding Limited registered dogs together creating unregistrable dogs. No different to a backyard breeder who may also have Limited registered (or not registered at all) dogs- No different to someone buying a registered purebred and then breeding it to others of the same (registered or not) breed- without being a financial member and a registered breeder of their kennel club of their state. No rules, no regulations - nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Actually as it turned out they were not even ANKC limited registered dogs - too bad it cant be discussed here though as its not the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I was really enjoying the discussion on the genetics behind colours and breeding. Maybe we need to start a topic just devoted to colours & genetics in pedigree dogs as it is a very interesting topic and is one that has implications for breeders as well as the general public, many of whom visit this site when searching for a quality pup of any breed. I do know someone who recently acquired a dog which is of great conformation and breeding from a top line, but when they came along to their first show with this dog were very disappointed when told by the judge that dog did not meet standard and he did not know how it managed to be given full registration. Dog has pink nails on one foot and some pink pigment in nose and white face. I am scratching head on how this dog slipped through as well but won't go there So did she just not see it or did she think the pigment would come in later. I presume it is the breeders decision whether a pup goes on main or limited register. Does anyone check that the pups adhere to the standard when they are put on the mains register? The dog in question was a BB and was 12 wks old when sold buyer was unaware that all black points were required and that pink pigment was not showable, I seriously doubt if this dog had black points and no pink it would have been sold It is 11months old now and still same if anything pink pigment has 'grown' with dog and disappointed owner is no longer showing dog and planning on having desexed in next couple weeks - such a shame as they were very enthusiastic about promoting breed and enjoying showing. BB British Bulldog? A British Bulldog can certainly have pink nails and sometimes butterfly noses(as we call them) can take quite awhile to pigment up. Yes even up to two years old. Depending on the severity of the unpigmented area. If the dog was an extremely lovely example of its breed then apart from the partly unpigmented nose then maybe they should seek another persons opinion before they do anything. Our first ever Bulldog 33 years ago had a very small part of her nose that did not fully pigment up until she was over 1 yr. She was made up a champion with absolutely no problem (even being awarded by Specialist judges) and went on to whelp two litters all with pigmentation. Feel free to PM me as I am curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outside of the breeding aspect of the previous topic, which I didn't read at all, why can't parti poodles be registered? Is it a health thing? Some reason why a parti poodle wouldn't be allowed to do the job for which the poodle was originally bred? Or is it just one of those irritatingly stupid no reason for it ANKC things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outside of the breeding aspect of the previous topic, which I didn't read at all, why can't parti poodles be registered? Is it a health thing? Some reason why a parti poodle wouldn't be allowed to do the job for which the poodle was originally bred? Or is it just one of those irritatingly stupid no reason for it ANKC things? I'd be interested in the answer to this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Outside of the breeding aspect of the previous topic, which I didn't read at all, why can't parti poodles be registered? Is it a health thing? Some reason why a parti poodle wouldn't be allowed to do the job for which the poodle was originally bred? Or is it just one of those irritatingly stupid no reason for it ANKC things? They can be Limited Registered if they crop up in a Main Registered litter. They just can't be obviously be used for breeding within our and other registries. My take on it is... the op should have taken notes of lines known to carry the "parti" gene and rally up others who also like the gene and either create another registry or lobby for the dogs with that colouring to be accepted eventually into the ANKC registry. Edited January 27, 2013 by WExtremeG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 That's what I find confusing too Sheridan. Why can't they be registered just because of colour? If parti poodles are allowable overseas to be registered, I don't think it should be any different for Australia. Why the different breed standards per country? Wouldn't that suggest a decline in the breed if each country can have a completely different set of standards for the same breed? If that's the case, they should be registered as either Australian Poodles or UK Poodles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outside of the breeding aspect of the previous topic, which I didn't read at all, why can't parti poodles be registered? Is it a health thing? Some reason why a parti poodle wouldn't be allowed to do the job for which the poodle was originally bred? Or is it just one of those irritatingly stupid no reason for it ANKC things? Nobody in the last thread came up with a definitive reason why partis were unable to be registered. But there are a few reasons some people put forward as to why it might be undesirable or how a change of registration rules would affect the whole breed. There is nothing wrong with a parti dog. But if you change the standard required for registration, you risk changing the whole breed, or you risk a separation in the breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 My take on it is... the op should have taken notes of lines known to carry the "parti" gene and rally up others who also like the gene and either create another registry or lobby for the dogs with that colouring to be accepted eventually into the ANKC registry. That would have been a more ethical approach. But doing that doesn't give you a guaranteed supply of parti pups to sell. You wonder what the real motivation is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outside of the breeding aspect of the previous topic, which I didn't read at all, why can't parti poodles be registered? Is it a health thing? Some reason why a parti poodle wouldn't be allowed to do the job for which the poodle was originally bred? Or is it just one of those irritatingly stupid no reason for it ANKC things? They can be Limited Registered if they crop up in a Main Registered litter. They just can't be obviously be used for breeding within our and other registries. My take on it is... the op should have taken notes of lines known to carry the "parti" gene and rally up others who also like the gene and either create another registry or lobby for the dogs with that colouring to be accepted eventually into the ANKC registry. Sure, but why?? That's what I want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outside of the breeding aspect of the previous topic, which I didn't read at all, why can't parti poodles be registered? Is it a health thing? Some reason why a parti poodle wouldn't be allowed to do the job for which the poodle was originally bred? Or is it just one of those irritatingly stupid no reason for it ANKC things? They can be Limited Registered if they crop up in a Main Registered litter. They just can't be obviously be used for breeding within our and other registries. My take on it is... the op should have taken notes of lines known to carry the "parti" gene and rally up others who also like the gene and either create another registry or lobby for the dogs with that colouring to be accepted eventually into the ANKC registry. Sure, but why?? That's what I want to know. Because some old biddy or bloke yonks ago decided that they didn't like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outsider question, but how hard is it to get a standard amended? Have there been many or any instances of this happening in recent decades (in any breed)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) In my breed when colours were picked as expectable Samoyeds use to come in black and black and white. However it was decided upon that the dogs with 'colour' tended to show mongrel traits hence the standard only allowing white, biscuit and white and cream. Perhaps it was something similar with the poodles when the standard was written, I don't know but saying it was because someone just didn't like them doesn't seem very likely However I know nothing of poodles and could be wrong. Edited January 27, 2013 by Bjelkier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakbelgian Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Are parti Poodles any different to parti Portugese Waterdogs? They can look similiar to the untrained person. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Are parti Poodles any different to parti Portugese Waterdogs? They can look similiar to the untrained person. BB Yes, ones a poodle and ones a PWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Outside of the breeding aspect of the previous topic, which I didn't read at all, why can't parti poodles be registered? Is it a health thing? Some reason why a parti poodle wouldn't be allowed to do the job for which the poodle was originally bred? Or is it just one of those irritatingly stupid no reason for it ANKC things? They can be Limited Registered if they crop up in a Main Registered litter. They just can't be obviously be used for breeding within our and other registries. My take on it is... the op should have taken notes of lines known to carry the "parti" gene and rally up others who also like the gene and either create another registry or lobby for the dogs with that colouring to be accepted eventually into the ANKC registry. Sure, but why?? That's what I want to know. Because some old biddy or bloke yonks ago decided that they didn't like them. In the absence of an explanation from a poodle person, I will assume this to be the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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