corvus Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 We had a specialist animal behaviourist speak at our work a few weeks ago and she said that was what she would use for a dog with SA. It seems to be more popular lately, but it doesn't do the same thing as Clomicalm only better. They do different things. If I remember correctly, Roo has already been on Prozac and it wasn't effective. Karen Overall suggests one or the other depending on the specific symptoms, which means both how the dog reacts to separation and whether they have any other anxiety issues. She has a pretty good dvd out about behavioural medicine. You can get it from Tawzer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Reminds me she has a relaxation protocol, pretty sure you've probably already done this. Has been very good for Jake and I took it out walking. Yes I'm the crazy lady walking around the bulldog clapping and singing on the side of the road! Wish I could think of a way to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 Oops . so sorry today was not a good one ..but SO glad that the daycare is working !! Yep perse, brilliant to find the daycare so close. Is she on clomicalm? Clomicalm did NOTHING for my dog. While I agree meds might not be what Roo needs, I believe that the latest recommended drug for anxiety and anxious behaviour is Prozac. We had a specialist animal behaviourist speak at our work a few weeks ago and she said that was what she would use for a dog with SA. Yep, clomicalm. We've done prozac and valium as well ... I've sent the vid to her vet with a note saying I am weaning her off it - it's one thing to medicate your dog if it works, but why do it if it doesn't? There is a cumulative effect, so temporarily upping the dose won't give you much of a dose-response effect. On that note, it can take 6-8 weeks to see any effect of the drug at all (it's not like taking valium, for a comparative example). Yes, good point, but it's 8 weeks this week so that really should be enough time to see some effect. I thought I was seeing an effect.....actually, I WAS seeing an effect, it's on film, but for whatever reason it abated. f I remember correctly, Roo has already been on Prozac and it wasn't effective. Correct corvus :) The vet said she had one more option up her sleeve last time I saw her, so I'll see what she has to say after the vid. To be honest my preference is no meds and just working with the new crate. I reinforced it today with mesh around it plus cable ties and clips on the doors. I think eventually she just HAS to realise she can't get out and settle? Reminds me she has a relaxation protocol, pretty sure you've probably already done this. Has been very good for Jake and I took it out walking. Yes I'm the crazy lady walking around the bulldog clapping and singing on the side of the road! Wish I could think of a way to help. Haha thanks for the giggle :) Roo is currently in the new crate while I'm downstairs...monitering her though....so far so good. I tuckered her out with an hour at the creek this morning though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrie Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Sorry to hear about the set back jelly. Hugs for you and Roo. I know it is obvious and only a little thing and probably already been suggested and/or tied but I find having some background music or TV on helps my guys to settle a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 The dog is worst on medication then off it. THe longer the dog is on said medication the worst dog gets. I think it's a no brainer that this has been tried, it's not working and frankly, a dog already with a high pain threshold on pills is not a good plan long term. We had more success off then on, and frankly Roo was a different dog off them. I think wean off time, come back to reality Roo roo XOXO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Oh Roo, gorgeous girl Jelly, you and Nek both think she's no better (maybe worse) on the meds so I agree, take her off them (not that I know anything about it ) Thinking of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 The dog is worst on medication then off it. THe longer the dog is on said medication the worst dog gets. I think it's a no brainer that this has been tried, it's not working and frankly, a dog already with a high pain threshold on pills is not a good plan long term. We had more success off then on, and frankly Roo was a different dog off them. I think wean off time, come back to reality Roo roo XOXO cheers big ears, we have already dropped back re. her dose, I reckon it'll take two weeks to fully wean off. during which will pull all stops out re. crate. sad it didn't work, but it was worth a try. as is everything else. Corrie you're right re the noise - think this is one reason inside in the crate is less stressful than outside in the yard for her. just a shame she learned the excitement of busting out of the last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) at least Roo seems to be getting along okay with the new boyfriend :) Edited April 1, 2013 by Jellyblush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Naawww, you might have lost your mummy's girl there :D PS does he realise he is now also under the scrutiny of most of DOL?!? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 haha, yep I warned him, he knows the deal! He knows about DOL and that you guys have saved my sanity and Roo's life. The odd photo seems a small price to pay :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) All I'm seeing is beautifully manicured toes, beautiful colour. It's funny Jake doesn't have a crate but he's made a cave under my sons desk. He goes and hangs out under the desk in the back corner when I throw him out the shower. It's actually made me think I should organize a soft kennel for him in case I do have to leave him one day. Some days you just want to shake them and say "BE normal, you're a dog" don't you" Haha Just remembered standing on the street yelling at him one day, screeched "stop doing this, it's not fun for mummy!" Edited April 1, 2013 by hankdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 The dog is worst on medication then off it. THe longer the dog is on said medication the worst dog gets. I think it's a no brainer that this has been tried, it's not working and frankly, a dog already with a high pain threshold on pills is not a good plan long term. We had more success off then on, and frankly Roo was a different dog off them. I think wean off time, come back to reality Roo roo XOXO Sorry, I'm confused. Are you saying that you had been working with Roo without the influence of Clomicalm and were having success? Then Roo started taking Clomicalm and started going downhill again? If so, has Roo been taking the full dose of Clomicalm for 8 weeks or not? Medication doesn't always work, and every now and then owners will report the dog's symptoms becoming worse with medication. But it would be difficult to verify that medication is indeed the cause of this. Changes in the dog's environment or routine, progressions in behaviour modification protocols, and normal, cyclical patterns of regression to (and away from) the mean are obvious factors. How does anyone separate out those factors and blame any one thing? The simple answer is that you can't (but if you take out a factor, e.g quit medication, and things improve anyway - it becomes a moot point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 It's funny Jake doesn't have a crate but he's made a cave under my sons desk. He goes and hangs out under the desk in the back corner when I throw him out the shower. That is so cute :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 I think Nekh might mean (not to speak for you N so correct me if I'm wrong) that Roo was much more responsible to other learning/behaviour change techniques off medication, therefore 'worse' in terms of ability to actually correct rather than mask the behaviour. With which I would have to concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Well - Roo appears to approve of the new man in your lives... he might just be a keeper then... lol! Baby steps forward are still steps forward... and I think Roo has had a lot of changes lately, so any forward motion with regards to her behaviour can be taken as a positive, right? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 LOVE that photo :) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I think Nekh might mean (not to speak for you N so correct me if I'm wrong) that Roo was much more responsible to other learning/behaviour change techniques off medication, therefore 'worse' in terms of ability to actually correct rather than mask the behaviour. With which I would have to concur. OK, I'm just not sure how she would know this given the time-line of events? Clomicalm does actually correct the behaviour by addressing the root cause, and this has long-term effects. This has been well researched. You can mask symptoms of anxiety using medication, acepromazine is classic example, but the risk of that occurring with a medication that addresses emotional states and not overt behaviours is fairly low. This is one of the main reasons that Clomicalm or Prozac are prescribed in combination with behaviour therapy - behaviour therapy can change overt behaviours without necessarily reducing anxiety (thus 'masking' the symptoms of anxiety). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted April 4, 2013 Author Share Posted April 4, 2013 Hi DOL - going to a comedy festival show tonight so first proper stay in new crate for miss Roo.....should be around 2.5 hours.... wish us luck :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Be good Roo!! We are all Roo-ting for you girl! T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Behave, Miss Roo, and have a lovely time Jelly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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