WoofnHoof Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You win Nek :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Oh my gosh Nekh, that last photo is adorable! Hard not to forgive a furry little snout like that :) That must be my problem, way too much of a sucker for a big pair of gooey eyes! Cheers everyone for the input on the crates. Here's this thing - I have a perfectly secure backyard. My issue with leaving Roo in it is that shes injured all her teeth chewing on the steel doors. So, if I get a really strong steel crate, I dunno....how is that different? She might as well be in the backyard? Unless the crate thing is the hope that eventually she will just have a light bulb moment and like it, which, if so (and Nekh says so on the weekend or before) then I'll keep at it. Otherwise, I might as well save my money and go back to the backyard. She was in the backyard today and the video footage was great, no panic. I put stuff she hates all over the backdoors (another good bit of Nekh advice) just happened to be her calming paste so haha doubly good effect if she licks it off! Anyway she was cool, hung out, played with her toys and slept in her kennel. JUST LIKE A NORMAL DOG lol! Daycare tomorrow. Really liking Ka-pooch, that was a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 SOunding very positive :) well done to you, Nek and Roo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Jelly the thing with the crate is it's not just another confinement it's meant to help soothe the dog's mind as it is supposed to be like a den. While in a yard they can run around and hype themselves up the den feeling is meant to be calming and non-stimulating, encouraging them to chill out while they are in there. That's been my experience and perception of it anyway, you aren't just locking the dog up you are changing it's outlook and it's level of susceptibility to outside stimulation. It's like the way activity rooms and sleeping rooms are decorated and managed differently in a day care centre, in the sleeping area you don't want heaps of distracting colours and sounds as it will prevent them from relaxing even if they aren't sleeping the environment encourages more quiet behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 That sounds so encouraging, Jellyblush Woof, thanks for that vey clear and succinct explanation for the use of crates. So helpful for when trying to explain to others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherylv Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Just in case this is of help - have not read all the posts- have you tried Bach rescue drops they are used for people also just googled & found this link - it may be USA but you can buy them in health food shops and chemists usually Bach rescue remedy also I used a herbal product for my cat years ago they released it via the vet it seemed to work - will have to try to find the name. PM me if you want to find it. They had one for dogs also. A friend of mine gets a special chew that they buy & cut into strips takes ages to get through and keeps their dog occupied - they also have a walker come once or twice a week when they are at work - agree expensive but maybe you could share (say do something for them instead of exchanging money. Hope this helps a little cherylv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 A very interesting keeping dog busy trick that I read on here years ago was chicken frames tied to the branches of a tree. Imagine a dog could have a bit of fun with that for a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Jelly the thing with the crate is it's not just another confinement it's meant to help soothe the dog's mind as it is supposed to be like a den. While in a yard they can run around and hype themselves up the den feeling is meant to be calming and non-stimulating, encouraging them to chill out while they are in there. That's been my experience and perception of it anyway, you aren't just locking the dog up you are changing it's outlook and it's level of susceptibility to outside stimulation. It's like the way activity rooms and sleeping rooms are decorated and managed differently in a day care centre, in the sleeping area you don't want heaps of distracting colours and sounds as it will prevent them from relaxing even if they aren't sleeping the environment encourages more quiet behaviour. Thanks that's a great explanation, and I do get it...it just doesn't seem to be working out for Roo or I'm not doing it right. She did stay in all day on Monday but every time since then including tonight, even though only short practice stays, she's gone mental and busted out of it. I must be doing something wrong or going too fast, I'm trying to mix up the durations and not giving her much the rest of the time, she has her food in there and she hangs out in there when I'm home, so I don't know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Don't assume you are doing something wrong. Talk to Nek and/ or your vet behaviourist to work out where to go from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajirin Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Don't assume you are doing something wrong. Talk to Nek and/ or your vet behaviourist to work out where to go from here. +1 Self doubt is insidious in nature....try not to be too hard on yourself. You are getting there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Don't panic Jelly... think of how well Roo has been doing so far. It's a big ask to expect Roo to turn herself around in a very short timeframe. You WILL have the occasional setback, but perseverence is the key, OK? If you have any doubts/issues, give Nekh a call - she's been an awesome help so far, yes? I'm sure she'll have some very constructive advice to counter Roo's hiccup moments... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Roo and Jelly should be coming today so we'll see what's going on. I think Roo just doesn't understand no frankly, everything's open slather for destruction for her when she feels she doesn't want to deal with it or it's in her way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Also, with this crate she has learnt that she can get out of it. I would not be putting her in the crate until you get the new, indestructible one. Every time she breaks out of this crate, she is reinforcing the behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Best of luck today, Jelly. We expect lots of photos of you, Roo and self-described bogan, Nekh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Don't assume you are doing something wrong. Talk to Nek and/ or your vet behaviourist to work out where to go from here. +1 Self doubt is insidious in nature....try not to be too hard on yourself. You are getting there! +2 prgress is most often a series of steps forwards and back... just try to remain consistent and positive within yourslef. you are heading in the right direction BELIEVE BELIEVE BELIEVE H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Also, with this crate she has learnt that she can get out of it. I would not be putting her in the crate until you get the new, indestructible one. Every time she breaks out of this crate, she is reinforcing the behaviour. Neither would I. Setbacks can cause behaviour to be stronger than ever and make it harder to modify. Nek, have you given Jelly a written program for the training? It's a bit sad that she thinks she might have done the wrong thing when she has been putting such a big effort in. A written plan with a timeline would make it clearer for Jelly as to what she needs to do each day, and enable her to determine if she is able to follow the training program all of the way through to its conclusion. She needs to be confident about the training and not be second guessing as to whether she is doing it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) I think Roo just doesn't understand no frankly, everything's open slather for destruction for her when she feels she doesn't want to deal with it or it's in her way. This seems in line with the overall written plan we were given by the UQ vet behaviorist with our furniture- ripping sheltie. That plan had a central plank of obedience training (in everyday life). We had to really stress that .... she had to learn to earn anything she got, from treats to attention like pats, to food to ride in the car. Always she had to obey the directions of 'Come', 'Sit'. And we were told to ignore any attempts by her to 'demand' those things. She had to learn that we initiated what happened for her in her life.... not her. Any 'asking' from her .... like eye contact, jumping up, whimpering, barking had to be ignored. In fact, we had to turn our backs if necessary & no eye contact. We had to pick a moment when she was not taking any notice of us, to call her for her good things in life (but 'Sit' first). We were also told to make sure she didn't rush before us thro' doorways & gates. In fact, for a while I had a light lead tucked into her collar so I could control the 'Sit' and 'Wait; before I went thro' the gate. Eventually it wasn't needed. This had to be consistently done as the vet explained learning was cumulative so it's not surprising that it gradually 'soaks' in over weeks, even months. It's not like a light suddenly going on. New learning requires new neurological pathways being laid down. Also (same with children), there can be an escalation of 'bad' behaviour during the time the new behaviour is being introduced. Oddly enough, it can be a sign that the 'new learning' is making its mark... the old habit is fighting back against 'a new kid on the block'. That can explain some setbacks. But the trick is to keep going forward without missing a beat. This was part of a written plan which included other things as well. Made it clear to follow. Article that best reflects what lay behind it: http://www.westwoodanimalhospital.com/BhvArticles/separation_anxiety1.htm Edited February 23, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 To me it it sounding more like a tantrum and I can get out, rather than I am very very stressed and beyond thinking and break out. Best of luck and I am sure Nek will have you on the straight and narrow very very shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Nek, have you given Jelly a written program for the training? It's a bit sad that she thinks she might have done the wrong thing when she has been putting such a big effort in. A written plan with a timeline would make it clearer for Jelly as to what she needs to do each day, and enable her to determine if she is able to follow the training program all of the way through to its conclusion. She needs to be confident about the training and not be second guessing as to whether she is doing it right. Everyone reeeeeemaaaaaaaaaaaaain caaaaaaaaaaaaaalm ... all is well. Jellys got 24 hour harassment privelages so don't think she can't get support in between times or reinforcement of an idea. I see why she got upset, it's a dog with a long term problem that went back a bit but all is well. We saw Roo today, we all had a good chat and discussion, went through a few things to see how Roos temperament is coming along with the changes etc and we're getting there. Rome wasn't build in a day :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Rome wasn't build in a day :D neither are settled roos ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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