Please Help Me Save My Dog

[Sheridan]

In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

[Loving my Oldies]

In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

[Greytmate]

In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

I am not suggesting there be an instant result. I am suggesting that Jelly have a realistic and informed idea of how long this should take, and not let it drag out indeterminately because there will always be people with suggestions for improvement, that won't ever stop.

But in the mean time, the dog is still anxious when Jelly is not there and prone to getting in very dangerous situations. It is only Jelly that will suffer if the dog seriously harms itself.

[Sheridan]

In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

I am not suggesting there be an instant result. I am suggesting that Jelly have a realistic and informed idea of how long this should take, and not let it drag out indeterminately because there will always be people with suggestions for improvement, that won't ever stop.

But in the mean time, the dog is still anxious when Jelly is not there and prone to getting in very dangerous situations. It is only Jelly that will suffer if the dog seriously harms itself.

No, you're suggesting that Jelly put Roo to sleep. If it doesn't work by this date, put your dog to sleep.

[Greytmate]

In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

I am not suggesting there be an instant result. I am suggesting that Jelly have a realistic and informed idea of how long this should take, and not let it drag out indeterminately because there will always be people with suggestions for improvement, that won't ever stop.

But in the mean time, the dog is still anxious when Jelly is not there and prone to getting in very dangerous situations. It is only Jelly that will suffer if the dog seriously harms itself.

No, you're suggesting that Jelly put Roo to sleep. If it doesn't work by this date, put your dog to sleep.

Yes I am.

[Greytmate]

How do you judge success or failure, except to expect a certain outcome within a certain time frame?

[frufru]

I have been following this thread but have not posted previously - just a normal pet owner with crate trained dogs. As others have said - retraining behaviour takes time and you and Roo have seen significant improvement with Nek. Retraining takes time and there will be setbacks but overall you have seen a positive change. Will just add that if you had started with something sturdy like a C-crate Roo would not have been able to bend the bars and you would not have gone through 3 crates. Having to leave Roo in the crate for 8 hrs the other day so early in the retraining was asking a lot and she did it! Moving too quickly with the crate training perhaps - what did Nek say?

Best of luck

Edited February 20, 2013 by frufru

[Jellyblush]

Hey everyone, sorry if I've confused you - Roo has not gone through three crates. She has managed to get out of one not overly strong one.

The reference to three is the number I will have purchased for her IF I buy another stronger one.

Greymate, I do understand your point, and agree that improvements must be seen in a reasonable time period. I have a timeframe in mind which I have discussed with my vet behaviourist, and wish to discuss with Nekh when I see her on the weekend as well, remember Roo is also on a new medication which I do not expect is working at it's full capacity yet since she's only been on it 11 days.

When Roo's anxious moments are greater than her happy moments it will be time to pts. With my current arrangements for her care she is crated a total of under 20 hours per week. That leaves a lot of very happy time EVEN IF you assume she's anxious every second she's in the crate, which I don't.

One bust out of the crate in the first 10 days of crate training is not the end of the story for me and thanks very much to Sheridan for your comments :)

I think I may have gone too fast. I also crated her too soon after eating (i.e. she had energy). Remember also that I videoed her. She did not exhibit any particular signs of anxiety in the video aside from exiting the crate. The lip licking, quivering etc were not present. I am encouraged by this.

[WoofnHoof]

Timeframes and goal setting can be really good to help ascertain at what point you should see improvement and how much, but I would also be hesitant to set a hard and fast deadline, d day etc because it can add stress and pressure which the dog will pick up on. Jelly started this thread because she doesn't want to PTS so it makes sense that people are going to suggest ways to improve the dog's behaviour so she doesn't have to.

The fact that she was able to leave her in the crate for 8 hours the other day without the dog going completely ape says to me that this might work, and it's very early days yet in terms of this particular training regime. She is a bit of an escape artist it seems so she does need to be thwarted in that respect no matter what size enclosure. My horse figured out how to open the gate between paddocks, I now have to tie the gate up with a special knot he can't undo, escape artists can be a PITA. :)

Anyway that's my 2c, I'd be speaking to Nek and getting a couple of strong clips :)

[Greytmate]

Greymate, I do understand your point, and agree that improvements must be seen in a reasonable time period. I have a timeframe in mind which I have discussed with my vet behaviourist, and wish to discuss with Nekh when I see her on the weekend as well, remember Roo is also on a new medication which I do not expect is working at it's full capacity yet since she's only been on it 11 days.

That's good. Did the vet say how long the medication would take? I think any training professional should be able to give an indication of what outcomes are to be expected within a certain time frame to determine success of that particular method, or any alternative methods. You also need to be clear about what you do want to achieve.

When Roo's anxious moments are greater than her happy moments it will be time to pts. With my current arrangements for her care she is crated a total of under 20 hours per week. That leaves a lot of very happy time EVEN IF you assume she's anxious every second she's in the crate, which I don't.

Yes that is an outcome, but I wouldn't be satisfied if one of my dogs was unhappy or anxious for up to half of its life.

A another outcome you could consider is the ability to come and go from your home, to work and to occasional social outings, knowing that your dog is safe and is in an environment that keeps her satisfied. That is a higher expectation, but it is the outcome I would want to have if it was my dog.

Good luck with this. I do want things to work out for you, and I am glad Nek is helping you.

[mantis]

Geeze Greymate, you are sounding like the "Grim Reaper".

[Greytmate]

Geeze Greymate, you are sounding like the "Grim Reaper".

The dog has a very serious problem that could see it badly hurt or killed. I'm hoping it can be fixed, but I am not 100% sure that it can be.

Jelly has to discuss this with Nek. I'm just putting it up here. Any failure is not seen by me as a personal failure that is for sure. Both Jelly and Nek are pretty dedicated people.

[Aidan3]

remember Roo is also on a new medication which I do not expect is working at it's full capacity yet since she's only been on it 11 days.

Yes, you need at least four weeks, up to six to see improvement. Did the vet behaviourist give you an idea of what to look for as far as signs of improvement?

I also crated her too soon after eating (i.e. she had energy).

That's usually a good time, "rest and digest". Energy from food can be stored indefinitely.

[Alkhe]

Ohh I just saw a pic on FB (one of my friends works at Ka-Pooch) and recognised her from this thread! I haven't even posted in here, but have been reading and silently wishing you well.

I've never been to Ka Pooch either, but I would trust Em with my dogs 100%. She's in good hands there

[Erny]

JB - contact Puppy Power 9791 9222. They sell via EBay so you can have a squizz at what they have, but they also have a showroom in Dandenong South that gives you the opportunity to 'touch and feel' the good ol' fashioned way, so you can see and feel the quality and strength of the crates they have available. Great people to deal with and reasonable prices.

[CollieChaos]

I bought one of the animates ones from pet barn for my border, it seems pretty sturdy to me, but he doesn't chew on it so I can't say how well it would stand up to Roo jaws.

[pebbles]

Hi again, Jelly, Had to go out today and was trying to think of the right word for wire size, annoyed me all day lol.

Wire size is in 'gauge' (well I think that's it lol) Surely these a lot brighter than me on here and can give the right name

Anyway - thinking of you and Roo - it'll work out

[Nekhbet]

Here's a sturdy dog crate for you :D those black ones you can bend the bars with your fingers if you try hard enough

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DOG-RESIDENCE-SOLID-STEEL-2-DOOR-DOG-PET-CRATE-by-SAVIC-LARGE-91CM-/130661299749?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item1e6c053625

and its puppy powder who I originally got my crate from. I put together a couple of these at my last job, my god you could hold hit the small one with a car I reckon and it wouldn't dint.

If she's not stressed she's just finding things to do, you just have to stay one stay ahead of roo unfortunately. As I said I didn't hold high hopes for the black crate, so don't take it as a failure. Clip it shut, bend the bars back and use some strong black cable ties to tie up the gaps she's made.

And just to make you feel better (kinda :laugh:) this was done by my rescue GSD

culprit on the right there

One $200 Snooza bed care of the rescue Malinois ... I didn't even leave the house for this one

Yes. She's so upset about the whole thing...

Edited February 20, 2013 by Nekhbet

[Loving my Oldies]

Nice car, Nekhbet

[mantis]

Here's a sturdy dog crate for you :D those black ones you can bend the bars with your fingers if you try hard enough

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DOG-RESIDENCE-SOLID-STEEL-2-DOOR-DOG-PET-CRATE-by-SAVIC-LARGE-91CM-/130661299749?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item1e6c053625

and its puppy powder who I originally got my crate from. I put together a couple of these at my last job, my god you could hold hit the small one with a car I reckon and it wouldn't dint.

If she's not stressed she's just finding things to do, you just have to stay one stay ahead of roo unfortunately. As I said I didn't hold high hopes for the black crate, so don't take it as a failure. Clip it shut, bend the bars back and use some strong black cable ties to tie up the gaps she's made.

And just to make you feel better (kinda :laugh:) this was done by my rescue GSD

culprit on the right there

One $200 Snooza bed care of the rescue Malinois ... I didn't even leave the house for this one

Yes. She's so upset about the whole thing...

I wish I had photos of all the damage Kenny did, 2 couches, 1 futon bed, 3 doonas & numerous pillows, cushions & items of clothing. I still loved him. :laugh:

Edited February 20, 2013 by mantis