tdierikx Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 She is such a gorgeous looking girl... and you can see in the photos that she absolutely adores Jelly... I wish my Harper would sit still long enough to get nice pics of her like that... but she just wants to lick the lens... *sigh* T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Roo is so gorgeous ,i want to smooch her to bits.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 Purdie, I think that's part of the problem - too much smooching! I have an update too. Longest time alone in crate last night. Left her in there for 2 hours while I went out, TV on, aircon on, toys (inc rope smeared in peanut butter), kong, etc. Of the time I was able to video (90 minutes), she stressed out for the first 30 (chewing on bars and ripping up her bed), then chewed her kong for the next 30, bit more stressing (very vocal), then a bit of a snooze to the end of the video. Here's the crate when I got home: She still chose to sleep there last night, although at some point snuck out and on to the couch where I found her this morning. Interesting thing...when I came upstairs this morning, I pottered around ignoring her for 15 minutes or so, then when I did go over to her and gave her a pat on the head, she reacted really calmly. Just a single thump of the tail. Normally it's frenetic tail thumping and furious licking of my hand. So that seems like a positive sign? She's currently gone into her crate for a sleep.... Later this afternoon we're going to meet a woman who does regular dog minding, and says she might be able to have her two days per week. Nervous after the Uni girls letting Roo out twice, but this woman has her own dog so hopefully is more sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 That is awesome progress Jelly! Roo is a lovely girl and it does sound like the crate training is really helping her :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Way to go Roo and Jelly... doing great! T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) Hey considering those crates she actually didnt try that hard. Now smear something horrible tasting on that spot to stop her chewing it again. Trigger's done worst just scraping the crate like a lunatic for his dinner, I showed you how we cable tied it together because he can instantly implode the black ones tdierikx another dog won't do a thing for Roo when left alone, she doesnt show signs of transferring her 'safe' feeling to another creature if you know what I mean. I don't really think she needs a mental crutch at all, she just needs to reshape the way she thinks and acts which is mostly just habit. We tried for her to make friends with Trigger, she didn't like Trigger. Poor doofy stood there staring at her like 'be my fwiend' she just showed her teeth and walked off he seems to have that affect on quite a few dogs, bless him, but he's as gentle as a lamb To be fair, I've been told there are two methods. Medicate, or pts ;) I don't believe this, but there are a lot of people who do because they don't want to do any processes that seem 'mean' or 'forceful' in any way, so just medicate the hell out of the animal, when that doesnt work just put it to sleep because it's kinder - supposedly. OH also came up with a theory, that the medicated animals behave in a way that causes them more pain because they do not understand the now lack of 'feeling' they do have on the medications. He used to do youth work and see highly medicated 'trouble' kids run themselves into walls and doors, cut themselves, injure themselves just to feel something through the meds Now this is a thinking, rational human, imagine a dog. Pain means bad, pain means STOP. Sometimes we have to let them feel those things and fears in order to understand the world 100% and prevent overreactions. It's just reality. Edited February 16, 2013 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) Jelly, crates were probably the best purchases I ever made for my anxious dog, he sleeps in one at night and moves out to the lounge-room crate most of the day :) Loves 'em. So glad it is working for Roo. Edited February 16, 2013 by TheLBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Pickles did the below damage when she was only 5 months old... managed to actually get out through the spaces she made... errr! Who'd think something this cute could do that much damage, huh? She just doesn't like crates... *grin* Luckily all of my other dogs are just fine with theirs - she's the smallest dog I have... lol! T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 WOW! That is one determined little animal you have there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty&biscuit Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Roo is SO beautiful! Reminds me so much of my previous girl, Lassie...such a doll Roo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Pickles didn't like the decorating and wanted to give it her own spin.................... I ahve never had a dog react like that to crating - thank goodness!!! Mine sleep in them by choice, door open mostly depending on which crate and where it is located and what we are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) . Edited March 15, 2013 by Rosetta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 That's ROOly great news :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Taking that premise further - do you think there is a role for e-collars in treatment of SA when the manifestation is barking? All theory at the moment say it is definitely a no-no as it heightens the anxiety. I would never totally discount it BUT it's extremely hard to do properly and not possibly have some bad side effects if the situation is not totally set up correctly. It depends too if it's true SA or if its an anxious reaction which are two very different things. A truly panicking dog should not have it used, I have seen it done on a dog that had manic episodes when put in a run and owner walked off, so owner decided to get an e collar ... well dog ended up rolling on the ground screaming with a stim and dog kept getting worst oddly enough ... When I got the dog, it screamed just being put into a partially built enclosure (ie posts and one side fenced) because the fear was now that bad. Most tools are for when dogs can be put into or already in learning mode otherwise they just frighten the system because the brain is not in the right mode to comprehend what's going on. It's similar concept to when you're already really afraid and someone comes up behind you and grabs you, it doesnt stop you, in fact you would heighten and probably snot them one in a thrashing fit because you're in fright/flight mode NOT rational mode. If it's just barking then you have to look at what is causing the barking. Breed and gender can be a big issue and usually there are other factors. I had a client ask me the same thing today, she said her dog may have the beginnings of SA because when she takes the other dog out for a walk her large recently desexed possessive male has a howl for a bit. Mmmmm probably more it's 'oi get back here woman' from the dog :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) . Edited March 15, 2013 by Rosetta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantis Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Taking that premise further - do you think there is a role for e-collars in treatment of SA when the manifestation is barking? All theory at the moment say it is definitely a no-no as it heightens the anxiety. I would never totally discount it BUT it's extremely hard to do properly and not possibly have some bad side effects if the situation is not totally set up correctly. It depends too if it's true SA or if its an anxious reaction which are two very different things. A truly panicking dog should not have it used, I have seen it done on a dog that had manic episodes when put in a run and owner walked off, so owner decided to get an e collar ... well dog ended up rolling on the ground screaming with a stim and dog kept getting worst oddly enough ... When I got the dog, it screamed just being put into a partially built enclosure (ie posts and one side fenced) because the fear was now that bad. Most tools are for when dogs can be put into or already in learning mode otherwise they just frighten the system because the brain is not in the right mode to comprehend what's going on. It's similar concept to when you're already really afraid and someone comes up behind you and grabs you, it doesnt stop you, in fact you would heighten and probably snot them one in a thrashing fit because you're in fright/flight mode NOT rational mode. If it's just barking then you have to look at what is causing the barking. Breed and gender can be a big issue and usually there are other factors. I had a client ask me the same thing today, she said her dog may have the beginnings of SA because when she takes the other dog out for a walk her large recently desexed possessive male has a howl for a bit. Mmmmm probably more it's 'oi get back here woman' from the dog :laugh: Thanks - I was thinking it would be somewhat like an hysterical person getting a slap to "snap them out of it" always works in the movies :D Kenny was a barker & howler when I was at work I didn't slap him but the next best thing, was put a super sopper on the bin in front of the fence, so if he wouldn't stop barking, one of the neighbours would give him a spray, he was cured in 2 days. But I guess you have to have a dog who hates water & good neighbours who will do it. :laugh: Nekhbet probably doesn't agree with my method, but it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) . Edited March 15, 2013 by Rosetta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyblush Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 We tried for her to make friends with Trigger, she didn't like Trigger. Poor doofy stood there staring at her like 'be my fwiend' she just showed her teeth and walked off :laugh: Poor Trigger Jelly, crates were probably the best purchases I ever made for my anxious dog, he sleeps in one at night and moves out to the lounge-room crate most of the day :) Loves 'em. So glad it is working for Roo. That's great to hear. I ordered another on online this week, the one I got from Petstock last week was expensive ($220), and they very kindly said I could take it back this weekend if it wasn't damaged....my plan had been to replace it with the identical but 1/3 cost crate I bought online and take the Petstock one back - THAT won't be happening now, cheers Roo, so I accidentally have two! What would be the best way to use two crates? Is there ever a need to have two if you have one dog, if so I'll keep it if not I'll sell it. I thought maybe put one in the backyard so she eventually transfers the learning done in the lounge crate to the yard, but I am probably just making things up now! That's ROOly great news :) Omg. You dag :D Mmmmm probably more it's 'oi get back here woman' from the dog :laugh: :laugh: I think that is a good method actually. The trouble is with SA is that you can't deliver any corrections when you are not there! Some people say you should hide and then jump out when the dog starts barking to spray with water or make noises or something. Fine in theory but most dogs are smart enough to know when you are hiding nearby :laugh: I wouldn't use an e-collar on my little fluffy but have been looking at those stand alone ultrasonic units. Back to Jelly and Roo. Jelly have you noticed any effect from the new medication yet? Yep. Roo knows without a doubt when I have ACTUALLY left as opposed to pretending, even when I unlock the front door and go out of it and just stand there, she knows the difference between that and leaving. Don't know how, but I know she does as it's evident from her reaction on the video. It's hard to know if there's any effect from the meds, since I'm doing other stuff as well, difficult to separate everything. But, the last couple of times I've left Roo, she has definitely been less frenzied than previously. Might be meds, might be me being calmer, might be crate, exercise, diet change, combination of all the above. The panic is still there but it is more level 6 distress than level 10 which is great, as my major concern has always been the self harm. My plan is to keep working until we hopefully get down to a point where I can slowly wean off the meds. I don't want her on them. Obviously if they are the contributing factor she'll stay on as long as she needs them but I'm hoping they are not, if they are just playing a supporting role I should be able to ditch them eventually. Yesterday I went to meet a woman I found on the pet minding matching site. I am finding I am struggling with people believing that Roo's behaviours are as I say they are. I said in the ad I put up that can't be alone, not even for a single second. We met, walked our dogs (she has a 9 y/o male foxie, they were great together), then she said "so I can do Monday and Friday but both days I got out for an hour, she'll be fine in the backyard, right". Er...wrong, or she'd be in my backyard! She was lovely though so I just said "why don't we try a walk round the block" thought I'd let Roo demonstrate for herself since people don't believe me! We are only about 10 metres away when Roo sails over the 2 metre fence. I would have done better to spend that 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon at Nek's class!! Which next week I will if we're welcome Nek. More crate stays today - funny thing, noticed my calf muscles have been REALLY aching the last few days, couldn't work out why, until I realised that it's going up and down the stairs a million times a day doing the crate work with Roo! :D Here's your Roo-pic, this is us at the creek just after she'd torn her claw out in one of her nutter frenzies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Awww... that pic says "Mummy I gots an owwie... you fix?", doesn't it? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I think that is a good method actually. The trouble is with SA is that you can't deliver any corrections when you are not there! Some people say you should hide and then jump out when the dog starts barking to spray with water or make noises or something. Fine in theory but most dogs are smart enough to know when you are hiding nearby :laugh: I wouldn't use an e-collar on my little fluffy but have been looking at those stand alone ultrasonic units. Back to Jelly and Roo. Jelly have you noticed any effect from the new medication yet? What are you correcting though? If you correct the barking without addressing the anxiety all you have is a quiet panicking dog instead of a barking one. That anxiety is still going to come out somehow, in destroying, soiling, self-harming, escaping or one of the other horribly creative ways dogs can devise. If the problem is fixed by a few corrections I would question whether it was actually separation anxiety rather than a cued, attenion seeking, or boredom behaviour. No-one with a genuine mental illness was ever fixed by a few slaps to the face (no matter how many times it works in the movies!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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