TessiesTracey Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hello I'm posting this in desperation and just really unsure what to do, or even if anyone can offer any advice. My gorgeous Stafford, Tess, was diagnosed on friday with osteosarcoma She'd had smelly breath for a week or so, and so I went to clean her teeth and discovered a large lump at the back of her mouth on her palate right next to her back molar. Took her straight to the vet, who suggested surgery to remove and further investigation including biopsy. Prior to this Tess was pretty much almost her normal self, if only a little quieter than usual. I'd put it down to the heat and just her age more than anything... Results came back on Friday and sadly the results have shown that she has osteosarcoma. We do not at this stage know how extensive the spread is or if it is even in her bones... however our vet feels that it most likely is, as that back tooth is quite wobbly. There are a couple of routes to go down, one of which being further investigation to see how far the spread is, and then surgery to remove affected bone, plus radiotherapy/chemo. We have decided already that this is not a route we wish to go down, because of how invasive the surgery would be and due to Tess's age. The vet seems to think that it could be only a matter of weeks or months. The lump was cut flush with her palate, though the vet thinks he has not gotten all of it out/off. There is now swelling in the same place as the lump, but not sure if this is from the surgery of if it's another growth already. We know that the decision has to be made to have Tess pts, but we're struggling so so much with at what stage do we do it? Does that sound silly? She's so much quieter since the lump was removed and I think in quite a bit of discomfort due to the return of the lump. This is what seems so hard - she was a lot more her normal self prior to the lump being taken away. She's eating just fine, but won't drink at all... I've managed to get her to drink by putting little pieces of chicken in some water which she then laps up. She's definitely not herself. The last thing I want is for Tess to be in pain, it's breaking my heart. I know there's probably not a lot of advice people can give in this situation. But this is our first pet that we've had to deal with this sort of thing with and deep down I'm frightened of the decision we have to make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) I have lost two dogs to osteosarcoma, both in the long bones of the leg. It is a common cause of death in my breed. I know treatments have improved since then, the last was 12 years ago, but it is a painful and aggressive disease in my experience and I chose to pts while they still had reasonable quality of life. A heartbreaking decision, but a last gift to give - a dignified death free of pain. My best wishes go out to you and Tess at this difficult time. Edited January 21, 2013 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TessiesTracey Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Thank you Diva I'm breaking my heart here.. but I think deep down I know that this is the only way to go.. the last thing I'd want is to prolong her pain.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 heartbreaking. I do have a suggestion that may encourage her to drink though. Boil up liver in a big pot of water and once it has cooled she may be happy to drink the liver water. With my boy he gave me a look, and its meaning was unmistakable, he had had enough. You will know when the time is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TessiesTracey Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Thanks Raineth, I'll try that I kinda think she's already giving me A look, but then if she knows I'm upset about something she gives me a long worried looking stare anyway! This is horrible Never been through it before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) So sorry to hear about your girl.. I am currently going through a similiar thing as you, but for my girl the osteo is in her shoulder, not the mouth. You can find our thread in the palliative care forum if it will help you to read of similiar experiences. I have had much useful advice given to me in regards to when is the right time, and I think what everybody says is true, you will know when the right time is. If you are having doubts, then maybe it's not the right time... but I'm just speaking from experience. Even now I still have my panic moments, but I feel confident that I will know without a doubt when it really is time, she will tell me. There is no wrong or right answer, you just have to do what you feel is right, what does your gut tell you? A wise DOLer told me, at the end of the day you are the one that will have to live with the decision you make. That advice is so true. No regrets. You may be experiencing shock right now, take some time for yourself to calm down and think carefully about everything. Consider in all the factors, and look after yourself. Hugs to you, it is not an easy position to be in, my thoughts are with you. Edited January 21, 2013 by silentchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hugs to you Your case sounds very similar to our boy Rogan. Mandibular osteosarcoma usually shows metastasis in the lungs initially. Have you had a lung X-ray? This would help you decide if any course of action can be considered. Rogan's thread is here in Health & Nutrition forum. Cav n Rott also has extensive experience with this type of osteosarcoma. Her journey is documented in this thread here in Palliative Care. It is many pages long, so I am sure she would not mind if you wanted to PM her for advice. CnR chose to go down the chemo road, for us it was not an option. My best advice would be to seek a consultation with a holistic practitioner (with the agreement of your regular vet); diet & supplements can play a huge part in keeping your dog well & pain free in whatever time is left. Sorry, I have to rush off now, but please PM me if you would like to chat, or I will pop in again & see how you are travelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I've lost one dog to this. My experience with Sam has me made me decide that if it strikes again PTS pretty well straight away. If the dog was diagnosed while sedated for xrays I would not bring them out. If not sedated then I would most likely arrange for the vet to come to the house the next day. what ever you do will be right for you and Tess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We had a dog with bone cancer & whilst she was still in pain it was managable but from diagnosis to her time going was just under 3 months & the signs are very much there. Signs it was summer & she was cold & had to be coated if the air con was on BUT i think in your caes the signs will be more dramatic due to the location Rebanne same thoughts as you. Ours was a Grey we went for x rays & told them if its was the big C to PTS there & then unfortunately the staff didn't pass that message on & we went to pick up her up she was her happy self Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faytiges Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Have been through the same myself. We chose to give our girl a chance, she had the op and had 4-5 months of a happy pain free life. However, it had spread (which in retrospect I think was always going to happen) If it happened again, what would I do, I think I would give her/him the best immediate pain relief then would have to let them go. This of course is just up to everyone's personal decision...we can only offer you our situations, and you must make your own choice. The choice to me is ...you will know what to do, and the best thing for your dog. I will be thinking of you...Not easy, but the best thing for the dog.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Thanks Raineth, I'll try that I kinda think she's already giving me A look, but then if she knows I'm upset about something she gives me a long worried looking stare anyway! This is horrible Never been through it before... I am so very sorry to hear about Tess.. Bloody horrible disease. If you still have doubts, it probably isn't 'the look'.. My old stafford had MCT for 6 years and there were a few times I thought he gave me the look - but let me tell you this much - you will know. That look is definitely unmistakeable. Have you considered an holistic vet? We had great success this way and so did cavNrott (PM her as her girl Sophie had the same thing as Tess, even in the jaw). It is heartbreaking but I wish you lots of hugs and cuddles with your girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Is your girl on some continuous pain relief? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TessiesTracey Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Thanks Raineth, I'll try that I kinda think she's already giving me A look, but then if she knows I'm upset about something she gives me a long worried looking stare anyway! This is horrible Never been through it before... I am so very sorry to hear about Tess.. Bloody horrible disease. If you still have doubts, it probably isn't 'the look'.. My old stafford had MCT for 6 years and there were a few times I thought he gave me the look - but let me tell you this much - you will know. That look is definitely unmistakeable. Have you considered an holistic vet? We had great success this way and so did cavNrott (PM her as her girl Sophie had the same thing as Tess, even in the jaw). It is heartbreaking but I wish you lots of hugs and cuddles with your girl. As much as I would love to consider a holistic approach, I just feel that it would be prolonging things. Well I think that's what I think anyway - so torn She's possibly only got weeks anyway and I'd rather she went whilst she has the faculties to still know me and my hubby adore her so much. Someone said to me rather a day too early than a day too late - which when I first heard it I was shocked, but it kinda makes sense in a way now I've thought about it We've booked an appointment for Thursday to give Tess her wings. I hope and pray it will be quiet and gentle and the right 'setting' - it's just in the vets surgery. A bit clinical. Oh man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TessiesTracey Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Is your girl on some continuous pain relief? :) Been offered no pain relief as the vet thought it would stop her from letting us know when she was in real discomfort . But tbh we have some unopened meloxicam left from a month or so ago and I've been giving her some. The discomfort she is getting is from the huge lump in her throat but I'm guessing the tooth and the cancer itself will be giving her pain too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TessiesTracey Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hugs to you Your case sounds very similar to our boy Rogan. Mandibular osteosarcoma usually shows metastasis in the lungs initially. Have you had a lung X-ray? This would help you decide if any course of action can be considered. Rogan's thread is here in Health & Nutrition forum. Cav n Rott also has extensive experience with this type of osteosarcoma. Her journey is documented in this thread here in Palliative Care. It is many pages long, so I am sure she would not mind if you wanted to PM her for advice. CnR chose to go down the chemo road, for us it was not an option. My best advice would be to seek a consultation with a holistic practitioner (with the agreement of your regular vet); diet & supplements can play a huge part in keeping your dog well & pain free in whatever time is left. Sorry, I have to rush off now, but please PM me if you would like to chat, or I will pop in again & see how you are travelling. Thank you Trifecta. We haven't gone as far as the X-rays as the vets seem to think that it may be quite far on anyway. I've agonised over whether or not to go down the further investigative route, but then thought what can it achieve? We don't want to put her through a surgery and then radiotherapy or chemo, so we just thought knowing how far it has spread or not wouldn't probably help our decision in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisey Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I have no advice sorry but just wanted to say I'm thinking of you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'm so sorry TT I was in a bit of a rush & somewhat distracted when I read & replied to your post yesterday - I didn't realise the mass was so large. Under the circumstances I think you have made the right decision. I do not know the location of the surgery or how it is set up but would the vet be amenable to giving Tess her wings in the car? Then it's just like going for one last car ride. Thinking of you & sending you strength & courage for tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 It is so very hard with the dogs that we love so much to know they are suffering and depending on how we manage the situation we can help or hinder the last few days. You sound like you love Tess very very much and it would be gut renching to know that you have an inevitable and difficult decission to make. My old Kelpie began to fade after a bad chest infection at 14, she developed dementia and became incontinent. All of which I could manage while she was eating and emiminating normally. But then with the dementia she became distressed and she would cry if I left the room cycling in distrss because she couldnt find where I went wether I went to the loo or into the kitchen and she couldnt find me even if I called. This was the time to have her PTS. Which broke my heart but i knew was the right thing to do. Considering your Tess's deteriorating quality of life remember that you love her and you would not want her to suffer any longer than neccessary. You are doing the right thing. As a survivor of Human Oestio Sarcoma in my leg - the treatment is horrible. Sarcoma in the throat/neck/ head area is extreemely difficult to treat and probably pointless in canines. Love her the best you can and treasure her memory when she has passed on the rainbow bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'm going to be a bit harsh (apologies ) and say it's a bit old-school not to give out pain relief. Obviously I have no idea of the extent of the tumour but from what I know of palliative cancer treatment pain relief is an ethical issue and it should be offered to you. Research on Meloxicam shows that it can have some benefit on slowing tumour activity. If she doesn't want to drink, you would have to assume it may be painful first and foremost and it would be remiss to not try pain relief and see if that helps the issue, after discussion with your Vet, of course. :) There are lots of pain relief options available to you. I would urge you to ask for a referral to your closest oncology specialist - your Vet must supply it if you ask - go in for a consult with the specialist and state that you would like to hear about palliative care options and that you're simply not interested in chemo/surgery. They should be very happy to explain the tumour activity and what options you have available to you. :) It's hard to think clearly when you are in this situation, but if you feel that your girl is miserable, please get a second opinion from another Vet, or a specialist. Don't worry about offending anyone, you are your girls advocate and in the end, you need to feel you have done everything possible to help. It will assist you later with the grieving process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 If you have chosen your day to have her Euthanased ask for some pain kellers, you know she sn't happy, make her last few days as pain free as possible. It is a horrible situation and never gets any eaiser. I agree with a adage, one day too early rather than too late. I always aim to do that. Sometimes I ahve recieved blood results and euthed them then and there, or they have been fine in the morning and then by the afternoon we have no choice, but in otehr situations I alway remind myself it cannot be fixed, quality not quantity, and I owe it to them to let them go before they get very painful or distressed. I am so sorry you are going through this, it is so very hard mentaly and physically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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