"we Hate Breeders - We Call Them Greeders"

[mita]

It's a waste of breath to talk with zealots. It's what zealots do ... not listen to anything that doesn't confirm their belief. Which is usually so outrageously off-beam that it attracts a heap of attention... so other people keep repeating their nonsense for them while saying, 'Isn't it awful!'.

Attention is better going to presenting balanced views to the general public... with evidence to back them. So people can make up their own minds.

CHOICE (was Australian Consumers' Association) does a fair job of gently pointing people to registered breeders & ethical rescues, as a guide to getting a pet. Also lists Dogzonline among the sources (well done!):

http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/household/backyard/pets/buying-a-dog.aspx

Edited January 23, 2013 by mita

[dogsaremyworld]

"The hard part is actually conveying the benefits & pluses of the purebred world (& there's lots more that I haven't mentioned)... to the general public. Over the years on DOL, people have suggested all kinds of ideas... like Purebred Pride Days, Information Displays in pet supply stores etc etc etc. But rarely have I seen them finish up being realized."

These things are not as easy to put on as one might think either. You need public liability insurance to run one anywhere in public, get council permission, pay the council a fee (im most circumstances) and that's before you even start organising the actual day and things you need for that.

Also some pet stores seem almost unwilling to help promote showing and/or registered breeders (probably because they are afraid of the backlash?? not sure). I know one of the bigger ones got quite upset because one of thier employees bought prizes with thier own money for a raffle to be ran at a show (he didn't say the products were from the store) and at the same chain store they also refused to advertise a purebred fun day, and yet at the same chain store they allow joe public to put up ads for thier crossbred pups.

[WreckitWhippet]

I've given up giving acrap what the general public, the rescue zombies and animal rights think about me as breeder and my pedigree dogs. The fact is i've got mroe people waiting for dogs than I can evern produce, the homes are fanastic and these days, that's all I'm worried about.

[tdierikx]

So you're happy to sit back and be legislated into extinction due to the Animal Welfare crazies having a much louder voice than you have in the public sphere WreckitWhippet?

T.

[WreckitWhippet]

So you're happy to sit back and be legislated into extinction due to the Animal Welfare crazies having a much louder voice than you have in the public sphere WreckitWhippet?

T.

we already up poo creek and there's nothing we can do to change it, we may as well sit back, breed while we still can and enjoy the dogs.

The canine councils sell us out at every opportunity that presents.

I used to be quite passionate and care but when you start worrying constantly about not being able to breed and all of the legislation and restrictions that are coming into place, you just send yourself mad.

I'm quite happy to promote my dogs by producing happy healthy animals that my puppy buyers enjoy and that's good enough for me

[Sheridan]

So you're happy to sit back and be legislated into extinction due to the Animal Welfare crazies having a much louder voice than you have in the public sphere WreckitWhippet?

T.

we already up poo creek and there's nothing we can do to change it, we may as well sit back, breed while we still can and enjoy the dogs.

The canine councils sell us out at every opportunity that presents.

I used to be quite passionate and care but when you start worrying constantly about not being able to breed and all of the legislation and restrictions that are coming into place, you just send yourself mad.

I'm quite happy to promote my dogs by producing happy healthy animals that my puppy buyers enjoy and that's good enough for me

You get the canine council you vote in.

[WreckitWhippet]

we've got a few that are ok but the rest well, I certainly didn't vote them in and it appears almost impossible to get a council that will stand up for the members and tell AR where to go.

[moosmum]

Not sure how it works as I'm not a member,but isn't it a matter of putting in resolutions and amendments for vote before an annual General meeting to bring about change or action you want from your Canine Council ?

[hankdog]

I've owned rescue mutts and purebred rehomed ex breeding dogs and my present designer bulldog is the first with major problems. I am average person on the street who believes if you're prepared to recycle a dog you should and wouldn't buy a puppy although I wouldn't have negative feelings to those who did. For me everytime I read anything promoting the benefits of buying purebred it always seems to be phrased in terms if purebred versus crossbred and since I've owned lovely crossbreds I always feel like my own dogs are being criticized. Since I really do believe we should adopt the surplus dogs before making more and that's just a core belief that I have as I try recycle a lot of other things as well, I think it would be more helpful if discussions didnt try to make a case for one being better than the other since that's immediately going to separate out a lot of mutt owners but rather tried to make a case for controlled breeding as a way of reducing the flow of dogs into pounds. I think this is a valuable discussion.

[tdierikx]

There are breeders, and there are breeders...

People breeding healthy and predictable dogs under a specific code of ethics on the one hand... and people pumping out all sorts of interesting crosses with cutesy "breed" names on the other.

Which would you prefer to purchase a puppy from?

I foster pups for rescue and see a lot of very interesting mixes that I wouldn't have chosen to create - but we don't have any difficulty finding good homes for them.

I think there is room in society for all sorts of dogs, pure or crossed... but I'd love to see "breeders" of the latter regulated a little better. We have laws in place to ensure certain aspects of animal welfare, and others that require all animals in most states be microchipped and age appropriately vaccinated before sale - but what we don't see much of is those tasked with enforcing the current laws doing anything real to stamp out the illegal practices of BYB's or puppy farmers.

I can remember back when you could look in the classifieds and see smallish numbers of FTGH pups and dogs - now all we are seeing is page upon page of idiotic made up names for these animals and exhorbitant price tags attached. People have seen a market for their idiotic purposely crossed animals and are trying to cash in on it... *sigh*

T.

[LizT]

That's exactly it Tdierikx, I have nothing against the lovable mutt, I've owned plenty and pick out a number from a cardboard box in my day...all free and all turned out to be great life companions.

It's the ridiculous and exorbident prices and claims that perpetuate myths that gets my goat. It's a fact that accidental or ill advised matings will take place...these people should do the best they can by these pups, who lets face it are an unknow quantity temperament wise and often also size wise, many times not proving suitable for the buyer. They should not try to make $$$$ out of these puppies, only to repeat the same matings over and over for profit.

[WExtremeG]

Pretty daft really - the term "greeders". Shows ignorance to the fact that most breeders spend a fortune on their dogs!! :laugh:

Actually I think there are Breeders who do all the right things and deserve the respect and there certainly are greeders, they pump out byb dogs, and designer breeds with no health testing or vision. Their only aim is to make money. So call greeders, grubs or puppy farmers, anything to distance them from real Breeders.

This.

The general public often doesn't make a distinction between breeders who are breeding to the standard, health-testing, researching pedigrees ect and those who whack two dogs together to make a quick profit.

They're both "breeders" to them as they know no different.

Edited January 23, 2013 by WExtremeG

[Dame Aussie]

Pretty daft really - the term "greeders". Shows ignorance to the fact that most breeders spend a fortune on their dogs!! :laugh:

Actually I think there are Breeders who do all the right things and deserve the respect and there certainly are greeders, they pump out byb dogs, and designer breeds with no health testing or vision. Their only aim is to make money. So call greeders, grubs or puppy farmers, anything to distance them from real Breeders.

This.

The general public often doesn't make a distinction between breeders who are breeding to the standard, health-testing, researching pedigrees ect and those who whack two dogs together to make a quick profit.

They both "breeders" to them.

Yep.

Also, to a member of the general public, breeders rehoming dogs looks like they have no need for them anymore. Whilst I understand why breeders do this and don't have an issue with it, it's not something I could ever do, i.e. give away or rehome one my my dogs, because they are like my family, so I can see why a lot of people see that as a negative thing.

[WExtremeG]

I think there is room in society for all sorts of dogs, pure or crossed... but I'd love to see "breeders" of the latter regulated a little better. We have laws in place to ensure certain aspects of animal welfare, and others that require all animals in most states be microchipped and age appropriately vaccinated before sale - but what we don't see much of is those tasked with enforcing the current laws doing anything real to stamp out the illegal practices of BYB's or puppy farmers.

I was thinking about this last night, and thought wouldn't it be wonderful if, at a bare minimum that byb's had to health test the parent dogs for genetic diseases. - would stop a lot dead in their tracks :laugh: They should have something in place for byb'rs - even if it were to follow up ads to see if they had permits to breed(not sure about all councils- but certainly my council you must- but people ignore it...).

Edited January 24, 2013 by WExtremeG

[WExtremeG]

Pretty daft really - the term "greeders". Shows ignorance to the fact that most breeders spend a fortune on their dogs!! :laugh:

Actually I think there are Breeders who do all the right things and deserve the respect and there certainly are greeders, they pump out byb dogs, and designer breeds with no health testing or vision. Their only aim is to make money. So call greeders, grubs or puppy farmers, anything to distance them from real Breeders.

This.

The general public often doesn't make a distinction between breeders who are breeding to the standard, health-testing, researching pedigrees ect and those who whack two dogs together to make a quick profit.

They both "breeders" to them.

Yep.

Also, to a member of the general public, breeders rehoming dogs looks like they have no need for them anymore. Whilst I understand why breeders do this and don't have an issue with it, it's not something I could ever do, i.e. give away or rehome one my my dogs, because they are like my family, so I can see why a lot of people see that as a negative thing.

I haven't really noticed as much as I have with pb cats. I see more "everyday" people trying to re-home their mutt or "pure" as can't keep them contained or are moving or have had a baby ect, ect.

[Sheridan]

I've owned rescue mutts and purebred rehomed ex breeding dogs and my present designer bulldog is the first with major problems. I am average person on the street who believes if you're prepared to recycle a dog you should and wouldn't buy a puppy although I wouldn't have negative feelings to those who did. For me everytime I read anything promoting the benefits of buying purebred it always seems to be phrased in terms if purebred versus crossbred and since I've owned lovely crossbreds I always feel like my own dogs are being criticized. Since I really do believe we should adopt the surplus dogs before making more and that's just a core belief that I have as I try recycle a lot of other things as well, I think it would be more helpful if discussions didnt try to make a case for one being better than the other since that's immediately going to separate out a lot of mutt owners but rather tried to make a case for controlled breeding as a way of reducing the flow of dogs into pounds. I think this is a valuable discussion.

It is idiotic to say 'Let's stop breeding until we rehome all the dogs that need to be recycled' (as if they're plastic, good grief ... ) because what you end up with is no dogs at all. Ethical pedigree dog breeders already 'control' the number of dogs they breed so there is no need to come here and give pedigree people a lecture. Go ring up BYB and puppyfarmers on Gumtree.

[Sheridan]

Pretty daft really - the term "greeders". Shows ignorance to the fact that most breeders spend a fortune on their dogs!! :laugh:

Actually I think there are Breeders who do all the right things and deserve the respect and there certainly are greeders, they pump out byb dogs, and designer breeds with no health testing or vision. Their only aim is to make money. So call greeders, grubs or puppy farmers, anything to distance them from real Breeders.

This.

The general public often doesn't make a distinction between breeders who are breeding to the standard, health-testing, researching pedigrees ect and those who whack two dogs together to make a quick profit.

They both "breeders" to them.

Yep.

Also, to a member of the general public, breeders rehoming dogs looks like they have no need for them anymore. Whilst I understand why breeders do this and don't have an issue with it, it's not something I could ever do, i.e. give away or rehome one my my dogs, because they are like my family, so I can see why a lot of people see that as a negative thing.

If the two breeders I got dogs from had decided that I wouldn't have got Grumpy or Mini. I, for one, am grateful that breeders feel some dogs could do better in other homes.

[Dame Aussie]

I've owned rescue mutts and purebred rehomed ex breeding dogs and my present designer bulldog is the first with major problems. I am average person on the street who believes if you're prepared to recycle a dog you should and wouldn't buy a puppy although I wouldn't have negative feelings to those who did. For me everytime I read anything promoting the benefits of buying purebred it always seems to be phrased in terms if purebred versus crossbred and since I've owned lovely crossbreds I always feel like my own dogs are being criticized. Since I really do believe we should adopt the surplus dogs before making more and that's just a core belief that I have as I try recycle a lot of other things as well, I think it would be more helpful if discussions didnt try to make a case for one being better than the other since that's immediately going to separate out a lot of mutt owners but rather tried to make a case for controlled breeding as a way of reducing the flow of dogs into pounds. I think this is a valuable discussion.

It is idiotic to say 'Let's stop breeding until we rehome all the dogs that need to be recycled' (as if they're plastic, good grief ... ) because what you end up with is no dogs at all. Ethical pedigree dog breeders already 'control' the number of dogs they breed so there is no need to come here and give pedigree people a lecture. Go ring up BYB and puppyfarmers on Gumtree.

Have to agree here. I have a purebred dog and a mutt and they are equal in my eyes, throughout my life I have also had another purebred dog and two more mutts, again all equal. But stopping all dog breeding will be the end of dogs. Purebred breeders do not breed enough dogs to make up the numbers in the pounds.

[Dame Aussie]

Pretty daft really - the term "greeders". Shows ignorance to the fact that most breeders spend a fortune on their dogs!! :laugh:

Actually I think there are Breeders who do all the right things and deserve the respect and there certainly are greeders, they pump out byb dogs, and designer breeds with no health testing or vision. Their only aim is to make money. So call greeders, grubs or puppy farmers, anything to distance them from real Breeders.

This.

The general public often doesn't make a distinction between breeders who are breeding to the standard, health-testing, researching pedigrees ect and those who whack two dogs together to make a quick profit.

They both "breeders" to them.

Yep.

Also, to a member of the general public, breeders rehoming dogs looks like they have no need for them anymore. Whilst I understand why breeders do this and don't have an issue with it, it's not something I could ever do, i.e. give away or rehome one my my dogs, because they are like my family, so I can see why a lot of people see that as a negative thing.

If the two breeders I got dogs from had decided that I wouldn't have got Grumpy or Mini. I, for one, am grateful that breeders feel some dogs could do better in other homes.

I agree with you Sheridan, I'm just saying that the average Joe doesn't always understand why someone would give up their dog.

[tdierikx]

I think there is room in society for all sorts of dogs, pure or crossed... but I'd love to see "breeders" of the latter regulated a little better. We have laws in place to ensure certain aspects of animal welfare, and others that require all animals in most states be microchipped and age appropriately vaccinated before sale - but what we don't see much of is those tasked with enforcing the current laws doing anything real to stamp out the illegal practices of BYB's or puppy farmers.

I was thinking about this last night, and thought wouldn't it be wonderful if, at a bare minimum that byb's had to health test the parent dogs for genetic diseases. - would stop a lot dead in their tracks :laugh: They should have something in place for byb'rs - even if it were to follow up ads to see if they had permits to breed(not sure about all councils- but certainly my council you must- but people ignore it...).

What would stop them in their tracks is being pulled up and fined under the current laws requiring microchipping and vaccination of pups - not to mention selling them aged under 8 weeks. Not hard to find them - they are advertised all over places like Gumtree - get the rangers out there and fine them. The cost of vaccinating and microchipping an entire litter isn't cheap, and if hit by fines for not doing it, that will hit the hip pocket too.

T.