"we Hate Breeders - We Call Them Greeders"

[k9angel]

There should be no breeder vs rescue.

After all they are all for dogs. Some pure/pedigree and some not so much.

We all want the best for the dogs in our care. (I know I saw a few homes before I let my last foster go).

There will always be those that want to buy from a registered breeder because they want a particular breed. For showing or even just because they want a pet with particular traits.

There will always be those that are just want a dog for the family and are happy with a general mutt.

I also loathe the us v them attitude of some. We all want them to have a good life in a good home..

Well said

x 2.

I am definately not a rescuer who preaches against reg. breeders. I have both, foster failures and my girl, Takoda, who came from a reg. breeder. :)

[Jed]

I don't think it's entirely down to HSUS but some people are sucked into the lack of logic of 'Adopt don't shop'. They see the amount of dogs in pounds/shelters and think the solution is not to breed anymore dogs until there are no dogs left in these places. They don't think or don't want to admit that no dogs being bred means no dogs at all. And then there are those (often the same people) who think any dog will do for any person. They don't think through lifestyle so the person who is best suited to a cav, they think that a bull breed cross will do.

I agree about HSUS. I picked on them coz they are so visible. People do somehow believe that rescue dogs will go on and on if no one breeds. Not very logica.

[Alyosha]

Pretty daft really - the term "greeders". Shows ignorance to the fact that most breeders spend a fortune on their dogs!! :laugh:

[ESCS]

Wow, Angel is gorgeous,Mita.

We had the same experience as Mita with our second tibbie. Our Helen is the daughter of Mita's Annie and from the same breeder. She was retired to us at 3years and is a wonderful , well behaved dog with a lovely nature. She had 2 litters and while she was a terrific Mum, the breeder felt she has had enough babies and wanted her to live the rest of her life as a loved pet.The breeder was in tears when she sent Helen to us and obviously cared very much for her. She refused to take money for Helen (only asked for us to have her desexed) so I had to send her a gift card instead. She told me that all she wanted from us was to love and care for Helen. Truly wonderful breeder and definitely not a 'greeder'. I am so grateful to breeders like her who make it possible for families like us (not involved in show world) to have lovely, quality pets.

[Zug Zug]

I think you're right Sheridan - there is a belief that any dog will suit any person. It just isn't true.

I have allergies. No staffy crosses for me. I also have spinal injuries - can't be yanked around by an over-exuberant muscle hound either.

Also I like the softer, more people-focussed ones. (Perhaps because my teenage kids won't let me hug them anymore?)

And it really didn't sound like her staffy cross was a great match for her, to be honest. Or perhaps she wasn't being a good match for the dog, which I suspect is more likely.

Anyway needed to vent.

From my perspective I take my hat off to the breeder of my standard poodle boy (14 months old) - she bred a great dog who suits me down to the ground, and she even house-trained him for me almost completely before he arrived at 9 weeks!

And I have greatly enjoyed my years with my older pound girl (she is at least 14 years old - we'll never know exactly). We have had a few dogs from pounds over the years, and may well do again one of these days.

There should be no rescue vs. breeders divide. Seriously. We need both.

[Crisovar]

Pretty daft really - the term "greeders". Shows ignorance to the fact that most breeders spend a fortune on their dogs!! :laugh:

Actually I think there are Breeders who do all the right things and deserve the respect and there certainly are greeders, they pump out byb dogs, and designer breeds with no health testing or vision. Their only aim is to make money. So call greeders, grubs or puppy farmers, anything to distance them from real Breeders.

[mita]

There should be no rescue vs. breeders divide. Seriously. We need both.

Yes. My experience has been the same as yours. Much loved pets come from both sources.

What I've noticed in my dealings with 'good' registered breeders and 'good' rescuers... is how alike they are in attitude towards their dogs.

Like, who says this as her final aim for dogs in her care (website)? Rescuer or breeder?

"... a loving home for the rest of their lives."

Actually it's the Swedish breeder whose tib won Best of Breed at Crufts. But it's exactly what the rescuers say, too... the reason for why they do what they do.

Only self-styled 'rescue' sources of limited experience & thinking power, believe that adopting a p/b automatically means a pound dog dies. Actually a 'good' p/b adoption reduces the risk for 1 more dog being added to the shelter/rescue system.

For ESCS: Angel, retired from showing, & happy pet. ( Best pal of greyhounds next door.)

Edited January 22, 2013 by mita

[grizabella]

There should be no rescue vs. breeders divide. Seriously. We need both.

I agree 100%.

In the end, both reputable breeders and reputable rescues ultimately work to the same aim, to give loving, caring and responsible homes for their dogs. The way I see it, it's no favour to a rescue dog if you 'adopt' them only to return them later because they are not the right dog for you. Rescue dogs aren't necessarily the best option for everyone, but for some people they are. I think it's sad that owners of 'bought' dogs rather than 'rescued' dogs are made to feel inferior, I've certainly experienced this ,myself.

Edited January 22, 2013 by salukibel

[dogsaremyworld]

I think it's terrible there is this almost hostile attitude towards breeders out there amongst some people. In fact, if any of you would like a depressing few minutes, check out the FB page called "I hate dog breeders" - I know it really opened my eyes as to how many people out there seriously hate people who breed dogs for any reason, and no matter how responsibly.

I have also seen time and time again from a small minority of people advocating stopping all breeding until all the dogs are out of pounds (usually giving a time frame) as a way as solving the problem of pet overpopulation and abandonment and its the same people usually say that anyone who can breed a dog while a dog suffers in a pound is a viscious and awful person.

I don't understand where the viciousness has sprung from, especially as others have pointed out, in the end we all want what's best for the dogs. I think we would all agree there are things done by some breeders that really upset people, including breeder's having multiple litters and litters one after another - breeder's selling unhealthy pups and not health testing thier breeding stock and in some rarer cases, the breeder's who do health test and then breed anyway-breeder's who sell to just anyone and everyone without checking anything - the list goes on and on.

There is a minority out there, who are registered puppy farmers, who give us all a bad name, but sometimes the people against breeders also use situations that are considered normal practice within the dog world against us too. A good example is the beautiful story of Mita and Angel. Some people wouldn't see that the way we do. We see that as a breeder being selfless and allowing the dogs she no longer shows or breeds to live out thier retirement in a loving home, spoilt rotten by thier owners. But there is those out there, who would see that entirely differently - to them Angel has outlived her 'usefulness' to the breeder, so instead of the breeder keeping her in a forever home, that the breeder cares nothing of her now she can't make any money out of her (with pups). They see that Angel is only treated as a commodity who has outlived her usefulness, and moved on to the next home. In Angel's case, her breeder has done it with more than one dog, so to them, he/she would be even worse - a repeat offender! I have heard the most vicious things said about people in similiar situations, as Im sure we all have. There are those out there who think we see our dogs are commodities who are disposable when we can't get what we want out of them, and Im sure no ethical breeder out there who has made the heart wrenching decision to rehome a dog would agree with that assessment. Im sure we have all heard this argument against breeder's many times, and as any ethical breeder will tell you, if you are doing it right, then you don't make much money (if any) on raising pups.

I don't know what the answer is - but I think we are slowly losing the war in the court of public opinion - more and more people seem to be beginning to think breeder's are the enemy, but it's a war we need to win, and not to the detriment of rescue organisations. Rescues do vital work, and we need ethical rescue organisations out there to help the dogs who need it out there. I particularly think the distaste towards pedigree breeder's particularly unsavoury, as although there are a small percentage of pedigree dogs that end up in pounds, the outstanding majority are cross-breds, and in the cases where purebred dogs are found in pounds, there is usually a fairly quick campaign by other breeders within the breed to get them rescued. I can think of a recent occassion where a Tibbie was spotted in Blacktown Pound in NSW, and someone who shows up that way spotted it, and tried to find a way to rescue it - before they could though the tibbie was adopted out. And that's the other point, a little off topic, but purebred's seem like they are fairly quickly adopted out if they are not rescued by a breed club or other rescue organisation first.

Both ethical rescues and ethical breeders have a place in the world - and there are unethical rescues out there too - which it sounds like this woman was. I think possibly the hatred towards breeders stems from the more extreme animal rights movements, "Born for looks, Born to Suffer" comes to mind" I don't know if anyone here agrees with me, maybe Im wrong. But it needs to stop. As it's been pointed out, not everyone can find the right fit for thier home from a rescue situation, no matter how much they want to.

[WreckitWhippet]

Pretty daft really - the term "greeders". Shows ignorance to the fact that most breeders spend a fortune on their dogs!! :laugh:

As I'm finding out yet again LOL

It's a bit like child birth really, you forget about the pain and in theis case the previous dollars spent

[tdierikx]

It's funny how so many people who are dead against purebred breeders will clamour to buy something that looks purebred if it ends up in a pound or rescue... people DO still want purebred dogs, or at least something that LOOKS to be purebred...

So what is the answer to raising people's awareness of reputable registered breeders? We all know that the anti-breeder advertising campaigns are making an impact - where is the other side of the story? How can we raise positive awareness of the joys of living with a well bred pedigreed dog?

T.

[WreckitWhippet]

Catch 22, what's the point of raising the awareness of pedigree dogs, when there aren't enough to go around

[tdierikx]

The point of raising awareness is actually to counter the negative crap that is effectively trying to make the breeding of purebreds extinct WreckitWippet...

T.

[Sheridan]

It's funny how so many people who are dead against purebred breeders will clamour to buy something that looks purebred if it ends up in a pound or rescue... people DO still want purebred dogs, or at least something that LOOKS to be purebred...

So what is the answer to raising people's awareness of reputable registered breeders? We all know that the anti-breeder advertising campaigns are making an impact - where is the other side of the story? How can we raise positive awareness of the joys of living with a well bred pedigreed dog?

T.

I have talked about this for years and have been howled down by people on this forum.

[Steve]

Well for what it's worth in my opinion you need to raise the awareness of the great stuff good breeders and good rescue do and that will naturally progress to more promotion of the dogs. Easier said than done and every time its going to be the politics that kill you.

Its not so much the crap that's coming from idiots like this its more about how if you are one of the good guys and start to promote that

you're likely to be beaten up - breeders have been conditioned to keep their camp fires low and now rescue is working out they need to do similar. You need to be able to see what their policies and codes are that they voluntarily state they work under with a third party accountability system which is 100 % voluntary . You need breeders, rescue and dog owners all working together with a focus on whats best for the dogs and not scared of telling the world how great they are.

[mita]

There is a minority out there, who are registered puppy farmers, who give us all a bad name, but sometimes ]the people against breeders also use situations that are considered normal practice within the dog world against us too. A good example is the beautiful story of Mita and Angel. Some people wouldn't see that the way we do. We see that as a breeder being selfless and allowing the dogs she no longer shows or breeds to live out thier retirement in a loving home, spoilt rotten by thier owners. But there is those out there, who would see that entirely differently - to them Angel has outlived her 'usefulness' to the breeder, so instead of the breeder keeping her in a forever home, that the breeder cares nothing of her now she can't make any money out of her (with pups). They see that Angel is only treated as a commodity who has outlived her usefulness, and moved on to the next home.

I don't know what the answer is - but I think we are slowly losing the war in the court of public opinion - more and more people seem to be beginning to think breeder's are the enemy, but it's a war we need to win, and not to the detriment of rescue organisations.

I'm glad you posted this insightful comment. I've seen that negative

interpretation of a breeder rehoming dogs even turning up in discussion threads on DOL.

And you're right about falling behind re the public opinion stakes.

Curiously, I think the easy part of providing a boost to public opinion about purebreds & registered breeders, is to start with the evidence about these dogs & their benefits.

They're the only group that has solid research behind them.... that the purebred dogs tend to be far better socialised by their registered breeders than dogs bred by unregistered breeders.

Socialisation is the gold standard for dogs.... all dogs... to be more likely to live without excess aggression or timidity problems alongside people. Even the military dogs are raised with a huge emphasis on their being close to humans & experiences in their early life.

Tracking back, the average registered breeder socialises their puppies/dogs well because he/she has strong bonds with them. Bonds that are beyond conformation. So any claim that all registered breeders care only about what a dog looks like, how many prizes it can win & how many of its puppies can be sold.... doesn't stand up to the evidence.

The hard part is actually conveying the benefits & pluses of the purebred world (& there's lots more that I haven't mentioned)... to the general public. Over the years on DOL, people have suggested all kinds of ideas... like Purebred Pride Days, Information Displays in pet supply stores etc etc etc. But rarely have I seen them finish up being realized.

This is where rescue... by contrast... has found a voice/voices that reach the public. Good to see (and I must say the good rescues have helped out purebreds). Major shelters, active rescues... & with the PR activities of the great Pet Rescue folk... are able to get into the public eye.

So I'd say.... we have the evidence for purebreds (& lots of it!) but not the voice. Public relations anyone??? No , not marketing, public relations.

I've seen the absolute delight of pet owners looking for a new dog of a particular breed, when I've shown them the Dogzonline Purebred Community pages, with all the links to further information, listings of puppies & dogs available & links to breeders' websites.

Only recently, I showed a lovely family, with a 3 yr old who adores dogs, looking for a Corgi, the Corgi pages. I'd just told them the evidence that breeders of purebreds tend to socialize their dogs well (important for a family companion dog). Then, the first Cardigan Corgi breeder's listing we pulled up, beautifully explained how she raises her dogs/puppies just that way!!!!! The family were delighted.

Why should I be surprised.... when all our purebreds have been raised just like that, too. :)

Edited January 23, 2013 by mita

[moosmum]

Mita,

" The only group that has solid research behind them" Thats key, and another reason its in every ones interests to preserve them.

But Pedigree breeders hold themselves aloof and isolated from every one who could learn and benefit from their knowledge.

We see on DOL,people come here who are potential pedigree breeders,but because they don't come to you fully formed and educated,they are ridiculed and scorned for their mistakes and lack of knowledge.

Not by every one,but when it happens all pedigree breeders are judged as elitist snobs etc.because it was publicly allowed on the forum.

Driving people off won't teach them any more than that.

Pedigree breeders need a more equall meeting ground with the general public.

[Ruin Maniac]

We have a few extremist animal liberation reps on our campus. A few have expressed hatred of all breeders. Since my intention is to take Sully to campus and train him there so that he can be prepared when I take him to work in future, I plan to promote purebred dogs to anyone who asks about him. We also have a huge market on Sundays each week on campus grounds that many people attend with their dogs. I've seen quite a few gorgeous purebreds there; frenchies, irish setters, ACDs, goldens, dalmations, danes, GWPs, etc., and they also talk to people about their dogs and the benefits of purebreeding :)

I wonder if we could set up an event, like a luncheon or something. It's an enormous area, and dog friendly and our animal sciences department is pretty big. Plenty of people have an active interest in pets... I might ask how one goes about getting permission for that.

[mita]

To counter the wrong belief that registered breeders treat their dogs like 'things'... & that showdogs are miserably unlike 'real' dogs...I always show pet people this photo (below) of registered breeders & their dogs socialising at a dog show (click to enlarge).

The body language of both breeders & dogs says it all. These are loved dogs....& mighty happy dogs at that (including the little bloke doing some doggie 'sniffing' in the background). Photo is posted with their permission.

(Disclosure: a couple of us DOLers have adult dogs adopted from one of those breeders. Easy to see why we'd have such happy & confident dogs. They came like that!)

I notice New York's Westminster Dog Show has done similar on their website. They have a gallery of pics of dogs (& their handlers) at the 2012 Show.... entitled Dogs, Dogs, Dogs. Stiff & formal 'thingy' dogs? No... rather dogs being happy dogs in many cases...& enjoying trusting interactions with their handlers. Enjoy! (I love the Coonhound having his big head cuddled & the exquisite Whippet being curious.)

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2012/show/dogs/

Edited January 23, 2013 by mita

[LizT]

Well for what it's worth in my opinion you need to raise the awareness of the great stuff good breeders and good rescue do and that will naturally progress to more promotion of the dogs. Easier said than done and every time its going to be the politics that kill you.

Its not so much the crap that's coming from idiots like this its more about how if you are one of the good guys and start to promote that

you're likely to be beaten up - breeders have been conditioned to keep their camp fires low and now rescue is working out they need to do similar. You need to be able to see what their policies and codes are that they voluntarily state they work under with a third party accountability system which is 100 % voluntary . You need breeders, rescue and dog owners all working together with a focus on whats best for the dogs and not scared of telling the world how great they are.

It just seems to fall on deaf ears...what is one supposed to do when one takes the time to carefully and politely explain their motivation and connection as a breeder with Breed Rescue only to be howled down by zealots who refuse to even try to understand that not all dog breeders are bad guys. There is a very nasty hate campain on Fb (origins American I think) that spreads absolute lies about what dog breeder do and nothing you can say on that page makes any difference. I am a great supporter of Rescue..I think education and careful puppy buyer screening goes a long way to prevent the potential of a dog becoming a dog in need of rescue.