Dame Aussie Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just another idea... Could it be a deficiency of magnesium or something? Sounds like she's on crack!! It does! I have a working breed who has pretty high drive but even she settles when needed. I'm not sure what else to suggest but all the best with it, must be so stressful for you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just another idea... Could it be a deficiency of magnesium or something? Sounds like she's on crack!! It does! I have a working breed who has pretty high drive but even she settles when needed. I'm not sure what else to suggest but all the best with it, must be so stressful for you all. To be honest, I've often said I think she is on something. And I honestly think this is why she was at the pound. Watching her run around all day non stop is exhausting for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) . Edited January 11, 2013 by TheLBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Actually, others have made a good point. I had an old dog with dementia who was keeping me awake most of the night, every night. I finally decided I was going to have to put him to sleep. He was waking me because he wanted food, i tried giving him snacks and full meals - anything to shut him up but nothing worked. Someone suggested i try Chinese herbs, i couldn't believe it would work and it was a last resort but within 2 days, he was once again sleeping through the night. I had him for another 8 months, living happily again in peace. A dog as you describe, isn't happy for whatever reason and perhaps something like this could provide the calm she needs, mentally. You can work on the physical at the same time - the treadmill and/or heavy jacket could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Dog mad - I'll look into that, thanks! One thing I think would work, is if she had another crazy dog to run all day with. She is happy when my guys match her, but with 5 dogs already, I'm not in the position to take another dog on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 No sure what to suggest with a dog that age other than a trainer like K9 Pro or Steve Austin who are used to dealing with high drive hyper dogs. The other thing that might be worth a try is TTouch. I know a great dog trainer near the ACT that has a lot of success with TTouch. Also the more exercise hyper dogs get, the more they crave it like a drug. She needs to be taught to switch off and settle. I have known a couple of BCs like this (except for the barking) and they have ended up as service dogs, especially drug detection dogs for Corrective Services but they like them young so they have a lot of years out of them following the intensive training they get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just another idea... Could it be a deficiency of magnesium or something? Sounds like she's on crack!! It does! I have a working breed who has pretty high drive but even she settles when needed. I'm not sure what else to suggest but all the best with it, must be so stressful for you all. To be honest, I've often said I think she is on something. And I honestly think this is why she was at the pound. Watching her run around all day non stop is exhausting for me! Yeah that's possible, poor girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Dancinbcs - I'll look into that thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) I'd be inclined to investigate medical and diet as a possible base line contributing to her behaviour. I'm not saying I think these are culprits, just saying that given all that you've worked on and her manic behaviour is persisting, these would be worth ruling out, at least. These things won't necessary fix the issues you are experiencing, but if they are a foundation to her manic behaviour and they continue to be, any sort of training you work on is going to be at the least difficult if not impossible. Blood work up, including thyroid (and I'd not bother with an Aussie thyroid test - I'd be going USA testing which is not that expensive as you might think). Diet change - depending on what you're already feeding. ETA: Dancinbcs and I seem to be thinking along the same lines. Just saw her post. Edited January 11, 2013 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Erny - My last vet did blood testing and sent the Thyroid somewhere overseas (I think to the USA) all came back fine Diet now is supercoat sensitive - she has a sensitive stomach so most other diets she vomits badly with. Have tried her on super premium and they don't agree with her, have tried raw - she couldn't keep it down either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I am another one that advocates a relaxation protocol! I wouldn't necessarily look at threads rather use them to do further research and then try a protocol from beginning to end. Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) is an option, Touch Associated Clicker Training (TACT) is another and there are quite a few others. I have a dog that was very hyper and the thunder shirt and physically holding her was often the only way to get her to sleep until she learnt how to calm herself, and one of my other dogs also responds quite well to physical massage/pressure rather better than other rewards such as treats. Combined with that I agree with the others that there needs to be a job. So teaching some very basic behaviours and see what happens and try and build up to a more complex one. Dogs need to learn to learn and that is one thing that many rescues have not grasped compared to working dogs that work stock or do dog sports. As such you need to teach them this concept in baby steps- so you need to work on creating focus before duration before complexity. At the moment it sounds like there is a lot of displacement and self rewarding- so teach options that you can actively reward and so give options other than barking to earn the rewards. I dont think this dog needs to be 'worn out' it needs to be taught options and given different coping mechanisms to be able to function and and be settled. These dogs just get fitter and fitter so wearing them out is not a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Some kelpies are just bred hyper and it's a genetic fault. When I was out west there was a little black station kelpie that would literally run until she dropped and then she'd try to run some more. She barked non-stop and was a complete nutbag, she was one of their best dogs though but they couldn't keep weight on her because she just burned everything she had. Apparently her mum was the same way. Just nutty lines of ADHD kelpies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Some kelpies are just bred hyper and it's a genetic fault. When I was out west there was a little black station kelpie that would literally run until she dropped and then she'd try to run some more. She barked non-stop and was a complete nutbag, she was one of their best dogs though but they couldn't keep weight on her because she just burned everything she had. Apparently her mum was the same way. Just nutty lines of ADHD kelpies. I agree that there are lines like this. I do sometimes wonder if they were given coping mechanisms and taught to stop and settle if they could learn it..... ETA- I think, having experienced a dog like this, there can be a point where you end up in a very negative spiral. It wasnt until I moved into the what have I go to lose stage that I retried some of the methods that hadnt worked but modified them with things that had made a little difference that I saw results. I think solving this type of problem very much relies on an open mind and the ability to be flexible- which is where is sounds like ES is right now! Edited January 11, 2013 by Jumabaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Some kelpies are just bred hyper and it's a genetic fault. When I was out west there was a little black station kelpie that would literally run until she dropped and then she'd try to run some more. She barked non-stop and was a complete nutbag, she was one of their best dogs though but they couldn't keep weight on her because she just burned everything she had. Apparently her mum was the same way. Just nutty lines of ADHD kelpies. Yeah, I've seen some like that, and Serenity is terrible to keep weight on at times ETA - she can do basic commands, sit, come etc. Stay is hard as she loses focus so easily. I've tried to find things she likes, but her attention span is worse than a child at times. I've tried to teach her calm, but have yet to find a technique that works with her. She definitely can't sit still, I sat down on the grass with my other dog Jimmy, who has his hyper moments. He came and sat next to me quietly, Serenity sat for a second, ran around in a circle, sat elsewhere, jumped up ran around again, barked at us, ran up sat on me, ran off, came back, sat next to Jimmy, ran off, came back, barked and then ran off again. All that happened in less than 30 seconds. Edited January 11, 2013 by Everythings Shiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitt Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 You mention that food is her motivation. Have you tried using food toys for mental stimulation? E.g., not giving her a meal in a bowl, but instead putting it in food-dispensing toys so that she really has to work to get her food? Or could you hide portions of her meal around the yard - e.g., on a low tree branch, under a bucket, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I know you've already seen a couple of trainers but I agree with others that suggested Steve from K9Pro, because of his experience with high drive dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny1shine Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I can't offer any assistance on the issues but nice name for the pup, even if it seems ironic for the present time. (We named ours girl river and if we get a male dog in the future will call him Jayne) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Kitt - we have tried food toys - the kong she is now afraid of as she got it stuck on her face, since then she wont touch toys at all. Kalya1 - I'll definitely get in contact with Steve and see what he says :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle Mum Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Best veterinary behaviour specialist is Kersti Seksel at Sydney behaviour service in seaforth or one of her associates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Please send a pm to DOL member Juice, I think she saw Steve at K9Pro. whichever trainer it was, they recommended the weight jacket for her busy working breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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