Advice Wanted Re: Problem Dog

[Everythings Shiny]

So long story short. I have a kelpie rescued from a pound three or so years ago, Serenity-Jayne is a beautiful, affectionate and mostly obedient dog. However, she has quite a few bad habits which I can't shake her out of. She has seen two behaviourists (Rob Stabler and Bark Busters) and both have tried and failed to sort her out. Bark Busters gave us some training ideas to do with her, which worked in the short term, but in long term due to time constraints, they've not been a long term solution. Rob Stabler prescribed Clomicalm and a few others, didn't work. My co-workers have tried valium, and many other drugs to try and settle her down, nothing has worked.

When we first got her she was fantastic, she was our first foster dog, and I fell in love with her, but now I'm starting to get to the point I don't know what to do, I've questioned whether there is anything more I can do, and I've had several collegues tell me I have one option remaining, euthanasia.

Serenity's biggest problem is she is hyper. I've tried everything to wear her out. I've taken her mustering cattle so she was running around all day, she came home and still circled and barked and fought with the other dogs. She isn't toy orientated, food is her only true motivation.

She barks from sun up to sun set, tries to make the other dogs play by barking in their faces. My older girl hates it, so she rolls the lip and then the fights start. I've seperated Serenity from the others, and currently she is locked in a run when I'm at work and gets to come out with me while I'm feeding up. I can't give her free run of the yard as she has attacked the geese before and I can't risk her injuring Paige again (She almost punctured Paige's eye in a previous fight). Paige will not fight back, she has been caught in this situation before and wont defend herself, my other dog, Diesal generally breaks up the fight if I don't get there in time. Serenity has had a go at him several times, but as he is the biggest dog (she is the smallest), he goes back at her and she backs off.

I had a big yard built for her to play with the other dogs in, she circles the yard so much she has created a path, and has created a huge dip in the ground where the path is, to the point the dirt is now covering part of them fence.

I used to get her to run with my older dog who is ball orientated, but Paige is too old and arthritic now to be doing this for long periods of time. When Paige has had enough, Serenity gets in her face and barks non-stop until she goes again, Paige gets cranky and tells her to back off, then Serenity starts to fight.

We've tried all the bark collars in the world, nothing stops her, she works out how they run and outsmarts them. The static collars beep before going off, so she barks once, hears the beep, stops, waits, then goes again. Once the battery is dead and it stops beeping, she gets straight into it. She loves citronella, it made her bark worse!

I'm lost on what to do, my mum used to love my little Serenity, but now she has come to hate her because of all this drama she is causing.

I can't get her debarked, I've tried to have it done, but council wont put the nuisance order on her as my neighbour is hardly home during the day, and she is quiet of a night.

Any ideas would be great!

[Jed]

This dog needs something to exercise her mind. Either a job working with cattle or sheep, or some sporting activity -ie, agility, tracking, jumping etc. where she is getting lots of training.

She is a very driven dog, and dogs like that need a job of some kind.

Otherwise, from the sound of her life at home, she needs to be sent over the bridge.

[Everythings Shiny]

We have tried working her, she's not interested, and it doesn't seem to wear herself down at all. We did try her at agility - again - no interest, much rather chasing everyone around

Edited January 11, 2013 by Everythings Shiny

[Jed]

That's hard ES. Maybe someone else will have some good ideas? Hope so.

[Everythings Shiny]

So do I Jed, thank you for your suggestion though :) I knew I'd forgotten something in there!

I don't want to make the decision to have her PTS as I love this dog dearly, I am just at my wits end

[Kavik]

Sounds like you need to get her focus first, before you start training her. I've found that can make a big difference especially when it comes to distractions of other people and dogs. Teaching focus also works their brain - I think the focus work I do with Kaos tires him out maybe even more than the exercises I am also teaching him for agility :laugh:

Here is a recent topic on this

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/244651-how-do-you-teach-focus/page__p__6057699__hl__focus__fromsearch__1#entry6057699

ETA: you want to get them to want to work with you/for you before you try to teach them more specific things.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Kavik

[disintegratus]

Something that worked for me was getting a treadmill and training the dogs to use it. When I had an operation and was completely out of commission for a while, it was a godsend. I would put Thundercleese on it, set it up so he was at a fast trot (he set his own pace, as if I had it going too slow he would go straight through the front of it) and he would happily trot along for 40-50 minutes at a time. Mine is a people treadmill, but an extra wide and extra long one, and has a little magnet thingy that you cliip to your clothes, and if the magnet comes off (ie if you fall off the treadmill), it stops the motor. I would clip that to his collar and have him running in the next room while I was lying in bed. I'd know when he'd had enough (or if he'd fallen off, which happened sometimes because he's a bit of a spaz) because the motor would stop running. It's got nothing on a real walk, but it did physically wear him out for a while.

Another thing is, does she know how to settle? My guys all know that inside the house = sit down quitely on the couch. Perhaps you could adapt that, for example, she's allowed to go crazy when out of the yard, but inside her yard is quiet time.

[kyliedelonge]

Have you tried an e collar? Its not something I like recommending, but all other options seem to have been tried.

[Everythings Shiny]

Getting her to focus is hard, No one has managed to get her to do it. When she sits, she literally looks like she's convulsing she shakes that hard.

I've tried an e-collar (that was the static one) and she out smarted it

I don't know if the treadmill would work, she has been out running literally all day fast paced with us on the horses and she is still a complete lunatic at the end of the day. I'll see if I can find a cheap one and try it though.

[megan_]

Have you taught her to settle? A lot of working dogs actually need to be taught this. Doing more can = a dog expects to be doing stuff all the time.

[Katdogs]

How old is she? Might she be suitable for service/army type work?

[Everythings Shiny]

We have struggled and failed to teach her to settle, I've followed the threads in the training section and tried so many different things, but she honestly reminds me of and extreme ADHD child.

Her age is unknown, we thought maybe 3 when we got her, but her face has gone very gray over the last year or so, so she could be anywhere up to 8 or 9 (Diesal is 8 and for a kelpie is in amazing condition aging wise). Vets have guestimated a range of between 5-10 years old.

Maybe if she took an interest in service work, maybe she'd be suitable? I don't know

Edited January 11, 2013 by Everythings Shiny

[nawnim]

Sorry to hear about your problem dog. It must be difficult to live with.

Just a thought! Could it be a food allergy? Maybe you could try changing his diet.

[Poodle Mum]

How long did you keep her on the meds for?

[mixeduppup]

You said you tried her on cattle, have you tried her on sheep? They're a similar size to other dogs. Have you tried tracking or training for search and rescue? A lot of super hyper dogs do well with a job they really have to focus on.

[Everythings Shiny]

Nawnim - have tried all sorts of diets - especially low allergens like Z/d and RC's hypoallergenic - no difference.

Poodle mum - it was a fair while, she has only recently come off the clomicalm (this issue has been going on for over three years now) and she was on that for ages. Most were a minimum of three months. I can't remember exactly how long as there have been so many trialled, but both Stabler and her vets were of the opinion the trials had been long enough.

[megan_]

The other thing to remember is that one person's problem dog is another person's dream dog. Not having met this dog I can't comment on whether it would make a good sporting prospect, but some of the best sporting dogs would be miserable in "normal" pet home, and the owner would be pretty miserable too.

That said, working dogs that don't know how to settle would be a problem. However, if she had a job that used her brain this might making training her to settle a whole lot easier.

FWIW, Bark Busters is just a franchise. I personally wouldn't count them in the "what we've already tried" bucket. I don't know Rob Stabler but in your case I'd go and see Steve from K9Pro and ask him:

* for help settling her (ie what can you do to make it easier for both you and Serenity)

* if you're getting nowhere, ask for his honest opinion on her potential to be a working/sports dog. If she has high potential and you can't give her what she needs, then I'd look at finding the right home for her. Having Steve's input will help you do this.

[BlaznHotAussies]

Just another idea... Could it be a deficiency of magnesium or something?

Sounds like she's on crack!!

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

There is a weighted coat for hyper dogs, it helps wear them out. DOL member Juice told me about it, send her a pm.

[Everythings Shiny]

Mixeduppup - we took her to working dog days on sheep and she would pay attention for five minutes then do her own thing, the trainers were surprised at her lack of want to work for a dog so hyper. We haven't tried tracking at this stage, I don't think there is a group around here that do it.

Something I did forget to mention at this point in time, taking her away to clubs a great distance from me (ie the closest tracking club I think is over 2 hours away) is not doable due to the fact I work 6-7 days per week currently.

Dogmad - I'll look into that - thanks!

Megan - Bark busters guy we got was a qualified and recommended by my co-worker (a vet) after Rob failed. Stabler is the equivilant to Steve in this area.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Everythings Shiny