Training Dogs Not To Kill Chickens - Advice Please

[ash1]

Lol I didn't want to recommend the collars as they are illegal in some states and there is usually an outcry over their use but yes, they may be the only option to stop this behaviour if you do not want/are unable to pen one or the other

Blackjaq, I used to be one of those crying foul, but did a heap, heap, heap of research in the use of them, even testing them on my own skin. Usually I would not look to them as a first port of call, but having watched closely the juniors' behaviours when around the birds/cats, I'm pretty convinced that gently gently methods are probably not going to have much effect in this instance - they go into a very high prey drive zone and whilst usually fairly responsive under normal situations, their behaviour completely changes when they are in chase mode. I can call off two of them, but the other two are completely focussed on the chase.

I definately don't want to keep the juniors penned, they are crated inside at night, but have free range of the house and house yard during the day along with the seniors and I like it that way - I am alone here all day long and like having my "security team" on watch for me. Plus they are such happy dogs racing around the property all day long.

Happy to lid the chook pen, but as it's so massive and we're currently a little financially embarrased doing anything about it will have to wait a few weeks. I've rigged up an enclosure for the guineas and the turkeys today and will let them out to free range for a couple of hours late afternoon (with the dogs inside the house) until either they're sold or we can lid the pen/train the dogs.

[sheena]

All I can add, is to string a low electric fence wire up around the chook pen. They usually only need to touch this once while looking at a chook & it makes them look at chooks in a different light. Also you could string a hot wire up a bit away from the chook pen, so that the chooks have a place of refuge to go to, if chased...but really, once a killer, always a killer & I would never fully trust a dog who has killed, anywhere near my chooks unsupervised...especially a pack of dogs.

[BlackJaq]

I wasn't trying to be offensive or anything, just pointing out that this is a public forum and it seems to me that many people are quick to condemn anything that is not positive reinforcement :p

I honestly think the collars can be a great training tool, especially when you need absolute obedience from your dog at a distance (I am thinking hunting dogs such as HPR and Retrievers here, they cannot put down an injured bird to go chase a healthy one, because the injured one could get away and die a slow, painful death).

Their use is banned in NSW, which is where I am at, so I do not usually recommend them. If you are in QLD I believe you are allowed to use them, not sure about the other states. I think the ban on them is actually stupid, since many a sheep dog or cattle dog might be alive today if the collars had been available to deter from nipping/biting stock etc. I think they can be a great training tool when used correctly and I don't believe they are cruel. I would rather use one of them than, say, a citronella collar. I can't imagine getting sprayed in the face with citronella is all that healthy..

Edited January 9, 2013 by BlackJaq

[ash1]

I wasn't trying to be offensive or anything,

Never thought you were :)

I know they're a highly controversial training tool, but although I will try some gently gently training methods first ('cos I can't currently buy the collars/lid the pen and have found a good resource for a gentle method after doing a lot of googling yesterday), judging their behaviour I think it's going to take something a bit stronger.

If I can get them to associate the poultry with a shock then I think I've a fair chance of getting them to leave them alone. But will definately lid the pen in due course and will never, ever, trust them around the poultry the way I can the seniors.

[ash1]

All I can add, is to string a low electric fence wire up around the chook pen. They usually only need to touch this once while looking at a chook & it makes them look at chooks in a different light. Also you could string a hot wire up a bit away from the chook pen, so that the chooks have a place of refuge to go to, if chased...but really, once a killer, always a killer & I would never fully trust a dog who has killed, anywhere near my chooks unsupervised...especially a pack of dogs.

We are also looking at hotwiring the pen, Sheena, we did look at doing this quite a while ago, but for some reason we decided against it, can't remember why, will chat with my husband this evening to see if it's possible. Believe me, even if I think I have managed to train them out of it, I will never, ever trust them unsupervised around the poultry. Fortunately the chooks have absolutely no interest whatsoever in leaving their pen, it's just these naughty turkey poults and guinea fowl.

[Aidan3]

I wasn't trying to be offensive or anything,

Never thought you were :)

I know they're a highly controversial training tool, but although I will try some gently gently training methods first ('cos I can't currently buy the collars/lid the pen and have found a good resource for a gentle method after doing a lot of googling yesterday), judging their behaviour I think it's going to take something a bit stronger.

If I can get them to associate the poultry with a shock then I think I've a fair chance of getting them to leave them alone. But will definately lid the pen in due course and will never, ever, trust them around the poultry the way I can the seniors.

I didn't suggest them because of any particular controversy, but because there is really no evidence to suggest greater reliability from using them in this situation. They work great initially, but don't become complacent.

[Sparassidae]

I'd use an e-collar, I used one on my second husky and a husky I was looking after for recall and to remove their desire to chase our chooks.

It worked wonders. My husky still has his recall and I probably haven't had an e-collar on him in about 3 years. I'd be confident in saying 100% recall.

[BJean]

Old school methods vary from tying the dead fowl around the dog's neck until it rots off, smacking the dog with the dead bird, etc, etc, apparently this is supposed to be failsafe but this doesn't sit well with me as a method of training. Also doesn't address the cat problem.

:laugh: Nope no feedback on the cat tactic to address the cat problem.

As for tying dead fowl around the dog's neck et al, it is not something I could do, but farmers in Australia tell me that it works. Owners o/s also report the same.

NB: these dogs are supposed to be living with the chickens / guinea fowl and after the incident continue to live with the birds without incident. Often the offender is an adolescent dog or a newcomer to the pack.

[BJean]

All I can add, is to string a low electric fence wire up around the chook pen. They usually only need to touch this once while looking at a chook & it makes them look at chooks in a different light. Also you could string a hot wire up a bit away from the chook pen, so that the chooks have a place of refuge to go to, if chased...but really, once a killer, always a killer & I would never fully trust a dog who has killed, anywhere near my chooks unsupervised...especially a pack of dogs.

We are also looking at hotwiring the pen, Sheena, we did look at doing this quite a while ago, but for some reason we decided against it, can't remember why, will chat with my husband this evening to see if it's possible. Believe me, even if I think I have managed to train them out of it, I will never, ever trust them unsupervised around the poultry. Fortunately the chooks have absolutely no interest whatsoever in leaving their pen, it's just these naughty turkey poults and guinea fowl.

If you are going to use electric tape, avoid the cheap and dubious 'ping string' marketed at dog owners, and source proper stock fencing equipment.

For dogs, heavy duty poly rope (1 cm diameter) is the best and safest conductor to use.

Edited January 9, 2013 by lilli

[Sparassidae]

I don't understand tying them around the neck.

My dogs would roll in the dead animal and try and eat pieces of it?

[ash1]

Old school methods vary from tying the dead fowl around the dog's neck until it rots off, smacking the dog with the dead bird, etc, etc, apparently this is supposed to be failsafe but this doesn't sit well with me as a method of training. Also doesn't address the cat problem.

:laugh: Nope no feedback on the cat tactic to address the cat problem.

As for tying dead fowl around the dog's neck et al, it is not something I could do, but farmers in Australia tell me that it works. Owners o/s also report the same.

NB: these dogs are supposed to be living with the chickens / guinea fowl and after the incident continue to live with the birds without incident. Often the offender is an adolescent dog or a newcomer to the pack.

Yup, exactly what these little buggers are - just coming into their "teens".