Pound Rounds

[Nic.B]

I am not sure how they define one from the other and rehome rates come into play as well. I have been told there is a set criteria and I have some experience with that.

Would appear if they have written criteria then that PR fit that criteria as they are still there.

In terms of RTRO dogs or DOC dogs taken by PR's they "fit" the written criteria though PR's have not followed set council requirements, nor have they informed council re a number of dogs they have taken under these conditions.

The end result (any rescue) for RTRO dogs or DOC dogs is that they are able to be rehabilitated/or are deemed able to be rehomed by the rescue (after assesment) or pts. You then inform council.

ETA

Edited January 24, 2013 by Nic.B

[tdierikx]

We already have enough LAWS to cover all of the things in this debate... we need to be looking at those tasked with enforcing those laws and asking WHY they aren't holding up their end of the bargain.

As for different councils and pounds having their own regulations when dealing with rescues - same goes there - THEY need to follow up when rescue isn't holding up their end of whatever bargain they've struck with the councils/pounds in order to have dogs (and cats) released to them.

Too many people/agencies who CAN do something throwing up their hands and saying "it's all too hard"... *sigh*

Why the hell should WE be having to come up with ways to deal with cowboys in the industry?

T.

[Steve]

We already have enough LAWS to cover all of the things in this debate... we need to be looking at those tasked with enforcing those laws and asking WHY they aren't holding up their end of the bargain.

As for different councils and pounds having their own regulations when dealing with rescues - same goes there - THEY need to follow up when rescue isn't holding up their end of whatever bargain they've struck with the councils/pounds in order to have dogs (and cats) released to them.

Too many people/agencies who CAN do something throwing up their hands and saying "it's all too hard"... *sigh*

Why the hell should WE be having to come up with ways to deal with cowboys in the industry?

T.

Because there are no laws which compel councils to have set agreements and follow up or withdraw agreements if conditions are not being met. There are no laws on what dogs can or cannot be sent out to anyone past declared dangerous dogs and you are reliant on council policy to ensure there is even any such thing as RTRO. There are no laws saying a dog has to be assessed by anyone or the owner has to be informed and educated - or have fences. There are no laws restricting dogs going out entire .

the agencies who you think CAN probably CANT because it all comes back to council policy.

Its why none of us know what any agreement says, what the conditions actually are or what consequences there are for a breach - they are denying such an agreement exists and if its not in writing it doesnt count. The only criteria being used sometimes when they want to determine which group they will work with is a 16 D but they can work with anyone who says they are a rescue group whether they have a 16d or not.

None of this is new but the kind of focus thats been put on PR makes it clear that its sucky system and now it has been clear it requires a strategy to clean it up or wait until they bring in laws to do so.

There are many sub issues here and much going on behind the scenes - politics and highly emotional players - it requires lots of work which requires logical thought and designing a strategy now.

[bellab]

What is wrong with you all? It is perfectly reasonable to rehome a dog that is dog aggressive on a pound environment and a fence jumper... So long as the owner can be trusted to keep him or her indoors or in a very safe enclosure and that, my friends, is why reputable rescue groups carefully vet adoption applications and carry out home inspections before rehoming animals.

If you knew anything about rescue dogs, you would know that often the "dangerous" one in the pound is perfectly well-behaved at home. That the "perfectly behaved", "bomb-proof" dog in the pound often turns out to be a dog training nightmare after three weeks in foster care. Having said that, I rarely rescue such large, strong dogs as Am Staffs and thus can afford to be a little bit more blasé about it.

On another note, any dog of that height can easily jump a six four fence. Humans seem to think yards are safe enclosures for dogs WRONG your dog just hasn't wanted to escape enough to figure out how easy it is.

On yet another note, my parents' standard poodle has picked numerous fights with Am Staffs at the dog park, having never spent a day in the pound and having been otherwise perfectly well behaved, perfectly trained and thoroughly socialised... Most of those Am Staffs backed down and didn't rise to the bait, the few who did did so half-heartedly and both dogs stood down when their respective owners shouted for them to stop and put them back on leash. The whole bull breed discrimination thing is ridiculous... In past decades it has been Dobermanns, Rottweilers, German Shepherds etc. and at the end of the day, it is Standard Poodles who are the most naturally aggressive dogs... They're just not that popular and not within the price range of the douchebag bogans who think having a big, tough, scary, undesexed male dog is a smart idea. The kind of douchebag who dumps their dog at the pound and says it is a fence jumper because their fences are four feet tall in some areas and the dog was left by itself in the backyard for 99% of its life, literally dying of boredom. So taking temp notes from former owners is in my experience as clever as taking directions from a madman.

Kennelling dogs for long periods of time is never a good idea and is not going to result in a well-behaved, balanced, mentally stable animal. You reap what you sew with dog behaviour, I tend to find, having rehabilitated "aggressive" and "dangerous" large breeds myself, including one Am Staff. If you don't know how to train a dog, let alone contain and control it, you probably shouldn't own one - it's not for everyone.

[bellab]

I should add that Pound Rounds are irresponsible douchebags who have no idea about rescue, dog behaviour or responsible animal stewardship.... They give rescue a bad name!

[Steve]

What is wrong with you all? It is perfectly reasonable to rehome a dog that is dog aggressive on a pound environment and a fence jumper... So long as the owner can be trusted to keep him or her indoors or in a very safe enclosure and that, my friends, is why reputable rescue groups carefully vet adoption applications and carry out home inspections before rehoming animals.

If you knew anything about rescue dogs, you would know that often the "dangerous" one in the pound is perfectly well-behaved at home. That the "perfectly behaved", "bomb-proof" dog in the pound often turns out to be a dog training nightmare after three weeks in foster care. Having said that, I rarely rescue such large, strong dogs as Am Staffs and thus can afford to be a little bit more blasé about it.

On another note, any dog of that height can easily jump a six four fence. Humans seem to think yards are safe enclosures for dogs WRONG your dog just hasn't wanted to escape enough to figure out how easy it is.

On yet another note, my parents' standard poodle has picked numerous fights with Am Staffs at the dog park, having never spent a day in the pound and having been otherwise perfectly well behaved, perfectly trained and thoroughly socialised... Most of those Am Staffs backed down and didn't rise to the bait, the few who did did so half-heartedly and both dogs stood down when their respective owners shouted for them to stop and put them back on leash. The whole bull breed discrimination thing is ridiculous... In past decades it has been Dobermanns, Rottweilers, German Shepherds etc. and at the end of the day, it is Standard Poodles who are the most naturally aggressive dogs... They're just not that popular and not within the price range of the douchebag bogans who think having a big, tough, scary, undesexed male dog is a smart idea. The kind of douchebag who dumps their dog at the pound and says it is a fence jumper because their fences are four feet tall in some areas and the dog was left by itself in the backyard for 99% of its life, literally dying of boredom. So taking temp notes from former owners is in my experience as clever as taking directions from a madman.

Kennelling dogs for long periods of time is never a good idea and is not going to result in a well-behaved, balanced, mentally stable animal. You reap what you sew with dog behaviour, I tend to find, having rehabilitated "aggressive" and "dangerous" large breeds myself, including one Am Staff. If you don't know how to train a dog, let alone contain and control it, you probably shouldn't own one - it's not for everyone.

Um not sure what you mean by what is wrong with us all but it appears to me that you are agreeing with us anyway.

[Sheridan]

What is wrong with you all? It is perfectly reasonable to rehome a dog that is dog aggressive on a pound environment and a fence jumper... So long as the owner can be trusted to keep him or her indoors or in a very safe enclosure and that, my friends, is why reputable rescue groups carefully vet adoption applications and carry out home inspections before rehoming animals.

If you knew anything about rescue dogs, you would know that often the "dangerous" one in the pound is perfectly well-behaved at home. That the "perfectly behaved", "bomb-proof" dog in the pound often turns out to be a dog training nightmare after three weeks in foster care. Having said that, I rarely rescue such large, strong dogs as Am Staffs and thus can afford to be a little bit more blasé about it.

On another note, any dog of that height can easily jump a six four fence. Humans seem to think yards are safe enclosures for dogs WRONG your dog just hasn't wanted to escape enough to figure out how easy it is.

On yet another note, my parents' standard poodle has picked numerous fights with Am Staffs at the dog park, having never spent a day in the pound and having been otherwise perfectly well behaved, perfectly trained and thoroughly socialised... Most of those Am Staffs backed down and didn't rise to the bait, the few who did did so half-heartedly and both dogs stood down when their respective owners shouted for them to stop and put them back on leash. The whole bull breed discrimination thing is ridiculous... In past decades it has been Dobermanns, Rottweilers, German Shepherds etc. and at the end of the day, it is Standard Poodles who are the most naturally aggressive dogs... They're just not that popular and not within the price range of the douchebag bogans who think having a big, tough, scary, undesexed male dog is a smart idea. The kind of douchebag who dumps their dog at the pound and says it is a fence jumper because their fences are four feet tall in some areas and the dog was left by itself in the backyard for 99% of its life, literally dying of boredom. So taking temp notes from former owners is in my experience as clever as taking directions from a madman.

Kennelling dogs for long periods of time is never a good idea and is not going to result in a well-behaved, balanced, mentally stable animal. You reap what you sew with dog behaviour, I tend to find, having rehabilitated "aggressive" and "dangerous" large breeds myself, including one Am Staff. If you don't know how to train a dog, let alone contain and control it, you probably shouldn't own one - it's not for everyone.

Um not sure what you mean by what is wrong with us all but it appears to me that you are agreeing with us anyway.

Possibly some sarcasm there?

[shmoo]

What is wrong with you all? It is perfectly reasonable to rehome a dog that is dog aggressive on a pound environment and a fence jumper... So long as the owner can be trusted to keep him or her indoors or in a very safe enclosure and that, my friends, is why reputable rescue groups carefully vet adoption applications and carry out home inspections before rehoming animals.

Scenario: You have space for one dog, do you: Take in and spend the time and money, working with a DA or escaping dog OR take the nice re home able dog on the list? Sometimes that is what it comes down to, and we, as the sensible rescuers seeing the bigger picture and are not operating with a bleed heart, trying to save them all. We take the nicer, more well adjusted dog that society will accept. Sucky? yes. But we can only do what we can do.

PR have prided themselves on taking the "dogs nobody wants" or "the ones left on the list".. what did they think they would end up with!? Of course they will have a never ending stream of difficult dogs, and hey.. if they were doing the right thing by the dogs and members of the public, then I would be but I'm

[Are You Serious Jo]

Pft, all you need are drugs and shock collars when you take those problem dogs!

[Steve]

Pft, all you need are drugs and shock collars when you take those problem dogs!

When you take them into kennels but what about when they go straight to a home

You have to prove first they were using them.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Steve

[Steve]

What is wrong with you all? It is perfectly reasonable to rehome a dog that is dog aggressive on a pound environment and a fence jumper... So long as the owner can be trusted to keep him or her indoors or in a very safe enclosure and that, my friends, is why reputable rescue groups carefully vet adoption applications and carry out home inspections before rehoming animals.

If you knew anything about rescue dogs, you would know that often the "dangerous" one in the pound is perfectly well-behaved at home. That the "perfectly behaved", "bomb-proof" dog in the pound often turns out to be a dog training nightmare after three weeks in foster care. Having said that, I rarely rescue such large, strong dogs as Am Staffs and thus can afford to be a little bit more blasé about it.

On another note, any dog of that height can easily jump a six four fence. Humans seem to think yards are safe enclosures for dogs WRONG your dog just hasn't wanted to escape enough to figure out how easy it is.

On yet another note, my parents' standard poodle has picked numerous fights with Am Staffs at the dog park, having never spent a day in the pound and having been otherwise perfectly well behaved, perfectly trained and thoroughly socialised... Most of those Am Staffs backed down and didn't rise to the bait, the few who did did so half-heartedly and both dogs stood down when their respective owners shouted for them to stop and put them back on leash. The whole bull breed discrimination thing is ridiculous... In past decades it has been Dobermanns, Rottweilers, German Shepherds etc. and at the end of the day, it is Standard Poodles who are the most naturally aggressive dogs... They're just not that popular and not within the price range of the douchebag bogans who think having a big, tough, scary, undesexed male dog is a smart idea. The kind of douchebag who dumps their dog at the pound and says it is a fence jumper because their fences are four feet tall in some areas and the dog was left by itself in the backyard for 99% of its life, literally dying of boredom. So taking temp notes from former owners is in my experience as clever as taking directions from a madman.

Kennelling dogs for long periods of time is never a good idea and is not going to result in a well-behaved, balanced, mentally stable animal. You reap what you sew with dog behaviour, I tend to find, having rehabilitated "aggressive" and "dangerous" large breeds myself, including one Am Staff. If you don't know how to train a dog, let alone contain and control it, you probably shouldn't own one - it's not for everyone.

Um not sure what you mean by what is wrong with us all but it appears to me that you are agreeing with us anyway.

Possibly some sarcasm there?

Yep it took me a while but I get it now - thanks

[Greytmate]

What is wrong with you all? It is perfectly reasonable to rehome a dog that is dog aggressive on a pound environment and a fence jumper... So long as the owner can be trusted to keep him or her indoors or in a very safe enclosure and that, my friends, is why reputable rescue groups carefully vet adoption applications and carry out home inspections before rehoming animals.

If you knew anything about rescue dogs, you would know that often the "dangerous" one in the pound is perfectly well-behaved at home. That the "perfectly behaved", "bomb-proof" dog in the pound often turns out to be a dog training nightmare after three weeks in foster care. Having said that, I rarely rescue such large, strong dogs as Am Staffs and thus can afford to be a little bit more blasé about it.

On another note, any dog of that height can easily jump a six four fence. Humans seem to think yards are safe enclosures for dogs WRONG your dog just hasn't wanted to escape enough to figure out how easy it is.

On yet another note, my parents' standard poodle has picked numerous fights with Am Staffs at the dog park, having never spent a day in the pound and having been otherwise perfectly well behaved, perfectly trained and thoroughly socialised... Most of those Am Staffs backed down and didn't rise to the bait, the few who did did so half-heartedly and both dogs stood down when their respective owners shouted for them to stop and put them back on leash. The whole bull breed discrimination thing is ridiculous... In past decades it has been Dobermanns, Rottweilers, German Shepherds etc. and at the end of the day, it is Standard Poodles who are the most naturally aggressive dogs... They're just not that popular and not within the price range of the douchebag bogans who think having a big, tough, scary, undesexed male dog is a smart idea. The kind of douchebag who dumps their dog at the pound and says it is a fence jumper because their fences are four feet tall in some areas and the dog was left by itself in the backyard for 99% of its life, literally dying of boredom. So taking temp notes from former owners is in my experience as clever as taking directions from a madman.

Sounds like a combination of luck and sticking to less physically powerful breeds that has kept you from disaster.

Dogs that act dangerously are more likely to be dangerous than dogs that have never acted dangerously. Dogs that have learned to climb fences have learned a terrible behaviour that means that they are more likely to escape again in future. It doesn't matter why, all that matters is that dogs being advertised as pets should fulfil that function and meet community standards. If a dog has to be kept in the same way that a dangerous dog needs to be kept, it isn't reasonable to advertise that dog for adoption as a pet.

[Plan B]

I said it to you a while ago, Nic, and I still think it's one of the only options in regards to these cowboys.

Bring all evidence to the media.

At this point, I think only media and public pressure will ensure pounds get their acts together and only release animals to those they know will do the responsible thing.

[Are You Serious Jo]

The only reason those drugs and collars weren't used was they were outed before she had a chance. She also has done the spiel about only medicating under veterinary advice but that invoice and lack of prescription stickers proves that stock wasn't from a vet.

The thing that worries me about the media is that some might take it and run with a BSL angle. It's no secret they take bully types and how do you ensure that it won't end up as a breed thing. But I can't see many other options if the council are really scared of her.

[Plan B]

I don't think you can ensure anything with the media. I just struggle to see how else to get the Councils to listen.

[Are You Serious Jo]

I know what you mean, they are the best option but it's a risk. But if you don't do anything the damage is possibly greater. I'm listening to the experienced people right now and catching up on what has been done so just thinking out loud really.

[Nic.B]

What is wrong with you all? It is perfectly reasonable to rehome a dog that is dog aggressive on a pound environment and a fence jumper... So long as the owner can be trusted to keep him or her indoors or in a very safe enclosure and that, my friends, is why reputable rescue groups carefully vet adoption applications and carry out home inspections before rehoming animals.

If you knew anything about rescue dogs, you would know that often the "dangerous" one in the pound is perfectly well-behaved at home. That the "perfectly behaved", "bomb-proof" dog in the pound often turns out to be a dog training nightmare after three weeks in foster care. Having said that, I rarely rescue such large, strong dogs as Am Staffs and thus can afford to be a little bit more blasé about it.

On another note, any dog of that height can easily jump a six four fence. Humans seem to think yards are safe enclosures for dogs WRONG your dog just hasn't wanted to escape enough to figure out how easy it is.

On yet another note, my parents' standard poodle has picked numerous fights with Am Staffs at the dog park, having never spent a day in the pound and having been otherwise perfectly well behaved, perfectly trained and thoroughly socialised... Most of those Am Staffs backed down and didn't rise to the bait, the few who did did so half-heartedly and both dogs stood down when their respective owners shouted for them to stop and put them back on leash. The whole bull breed discrimination thing is ridiculous... In past decades it has been Dobermanns, Rottweilers, German Shepherds etc. and at the end of the day, it is Standard Poodles who are the most naturally aggressive dogs... They're just not that popular and not within the price range of the douchebag bogans who think having a big, tough, scary, undesexed male dog is a smart idea. The kind of douchebag who dumps their dog at the pound and says it is a fence jumper because their fences are four feet tall in some areas and the dog was left by itself in the backyard for 99% of its life, literally dying of boredom. So taking temp notes from former owners is in my experience as clever as taking directions from a madman.

Kennelling dogs for long periods of time is never a good idea and is not going to result in a well-behaved, balanced, mentally stable animal. You reap what you sew with dog behaviour, I tend to find, having rehabilitated "aggressive" and "dangerous" large breeds myself, including one Am Staff. If you don't know how to train a dog, let alone contain and control it, you probably shouldn't own one - it's not for everyone.

[Nic.B]

I said it to you a while ago, Nic, and I still think it's one of the only options in regards to these cowboys.

Bring all evidence to the media.

At this point, I think only media and public pressure will ensure pounds get their acts together and only release animals to those they know will do the responsible thing.

The media are NOT interested in a balanced story, a crap story will impact upon all rescues.

[Nic.B]

I don't think you can ensure anything with the media. I just struggle to see how else to get the Councils to listen.

Not via the media Plan B

[Are You Serious Jo]

Does anybody know who local council are answerable to?