Neuter Classes

[mirawee]

Yeah that is the other reason most people believe neuters shouldn't be shown - because they can't be bred from.

Doesn't that mean that all the entire dogs who are sterile or shouldn't be bred from due to health reasons also shouldn't be shown? Certainly a good way to kill dog showing completely :laugh:

[BJean]

There is neuter in group and neuter in show at most of the shows around here - at all that offer the classes (which is the majority).

And yes, the class offered is open neuter - class 18 and 18a.

The All Breed KCC and Bulla shows in the Dogs Vic November and December gazette did not have neuter classes - but some of the country all breed shows did.

Good to learn that when they do, it is 18/18a

Edited January 2, 2013 by lilli

[dotdashdot]

The reason I said neuter classes might be a nice starting point is because I was a newbie not too long ago and jumping straight into the main ring was daunting. I was up against dogs trying to get their last few points for their championship and the owner meant business (as they should, they were lovely dogs)

I was still nervous when entering her as a neuter, but felt less pressure, it's more about the fun because neuter's have the "can't be bred from" factor.

It's also hard for a first timer to get a dog good enough for the ring. My girl was sold on mains and I was basically told I could do what I liked, not something that happens too often. Obviously if people are going to use neuter classes as an entry, the dogs have to be of quality still (but maybe just not the pick of the litter, like my girl who probably lost out because she's more heavily spotted than her siblings).

[Bilbo Baggins]

Okay a question has been missed or maybe 2 questions.

1. I have a neutered and I show it.

2. I have a neutered dog and enter shows that have neutered class over ones that do not even though the one with no neuter class is closer to home.

[rajacadoo]

Mmmmmm cant answer the survey as Tas wasn't included in the states column ...

Ooops - my bad - TAS is now in! :)

:D....

[conztruct]

Okay a question has been missed or maybe 2 questions.

1. I have a neutered and I show it.

2. I have a neutered dog and enter shows that have neutered class over ones that do not even though the one with no neuter class is closer to home.

Yep - I understand where you're coming from - for 1., I think it's covered under option "I have a neutered dog and would enter if the class was offered". For number 2, I just wanted to check that you mean.....in the instance where you have entire and neuter dog/s to show you would go further afield to support a show that offers the neuter classes than do a closer show that does not? If you were only showing neutered dog/s the closer show wouldn't be an option anyway and you'd need to go to the one further away. On this I'd be inclined to agree with you and do the same thing however, for the purposes of this poll to not drill down too much I won't include it but happy to keep the additional subjective feedback to demonstrate that of those who would enter neuter shows, many would travel further away and bypass a nearer show if the neuter classes weren't offered.

Thanks - it adds some good context about the level of support for neuter classes.

[WreckitWhippet]

Personally I think it's just a waste of time, the dogs aren't fertile and can't be bred from but whatever floats someone's boat I guess.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Personally I think it's just a waste of time, the dogs aren't fertile and can't be bred from but whatever floats someone's boat I guess.

That is such a typical negative response. How many of the so called "entire" dogs being shown are actually fertile and capable of producing a decent offspring??

[Bilbo Baggins]

Ooops double post. <img src="http://www.dolforums.com.au/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif" alt=":D" class="bbc_emoticon">

Edited January 2, 2013 by Bilbo Baggins

[Bilbo Baggins]

Okay a question has been missed or maybe 2 questions.

1. I have a neutered and I show it.

2. I have a neutered dog and enter shows that have neutered class over ones that do not even though the one with no neuter class is closer to home.

Yep - I understand where you're coming from - for 1., I think it's covered under option "I have a neutered dog and would enter if the class was offered". For number 2, I just wanted to check that you mean.....in the instance where you have entire and neuter dog/s to show you would go further afield to support a show that offers the neuter classes than do a closer show that does not? If you were only showing neutered dog/s the closer show wouldn't be an option anyway and you'd need to go to the one further away. On this I'd be inclined to agree with you and do the same thing however, for the purposes of this poll to not drill down too much I won't include it but happy to keep the additional subjective feedback to demonstrate that of those who would enter neuter shows, many would travel further away and bypass a nearer show if the neuter classes weren't offered.

Thanks - it adds some good context about the level of support for neuter classes.

Current example. This weekend 2 Shows Kyneton 50 mins from home same side of town.

2 Shows Newborough roughly 2 hours other side of town. Going to this lot because they have neuter.

ETA. Yes I have entire dogs as well.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Bilbo Baggins

[megan_]

Personally I think it's just a waste of time, the dogs aren't fertile and can't be bred from but whatever floats someone's boat I guess.

Because it can show how good a pedigree is?

[Rebanne]

Personally I think it's just a waste of time, the dogs aren't fertile and can't be bred from but whatever floats someone's boat I guess.

and how many entire dogs shown are actually bred from? Not all of them that's for sure. And who would know how many are actually fertile? Very easy to slip a desexed bitch ( not a coated breed ) into the lineup along with the dogs that have been implanted. And there are plenty of entire dogs that should not be bred from as well.

Neuter class still showcases the breed, people can get to see more then one example of the breed (in my breeds case), the dog enjoys it, it encourages new people to the sport. My adult daughter has started with my neuter bitch and they are having a ball together.

[Sandra777]

I know this wasn't the intention of this topic, but regarding the "neuter is a waste of time" sentiment -

Dog shows are allegedly about assessing breeding stock. Any half way serious breeder know the ONLY way to assess breeding stock is by progeny testing.

It's totally irrelevant if a dog has 500,000 points and 657 BIS wins - if he produces crap.

If you could go to a show and see 5 adult animals by a specific dog and they were all good examples of the breed, produced from 5 different bitches from 5 different lines - that would be the dog to use for breeding, not the supreme champion with extra anchovies who produces...... crap.

If all 5 of those adult animals were neuters how does that affect your decision that their sire is the dog to use??

[SwaY]

I don't have a problem with Neuter classes; however I see very few new people showing, there tends to be titled dogs being shown by experienced owner/handler/breeders.

I thought it was bought in to encourage newbies to show, I don't see that happening.

[Inevitablue]

Most of the newbies who havent been showing potentially have dogs on the limited register. If they wanted to show from the beginning the breeder most likely would have given them a mains register.

I wonder if neuter classes were open to LR then numbers might increase - along with getting the message to people outside the show world that they can participate in a dog show I'd be happy to see more neutered dogs, just more dogs in general so I can see the finer details of different lines. I can still learn alot about the different kennels from seeing neuters.

[conztruct]

Most of the newbies who havent been showing potentially have dogs on the limited register. If they wanted to show from the beginning the breeder most likely would have given them a mains register.

I wonder if neuter classes were open to LR then numbers might increase - along with getting the message to people outside the show world that they can participate in a dog show I'd be happy to see more neutered dogs, just more dogs in general so I can see the finer details of different lines. I can still learn alot about the different kennels from seeing neuters.

That's true - the numbers might increase by opening up showing to dogs on limited register but I think we need to be mindful of and respectful to the breeders wishes and their decision to put a dog on Limited Register which means no showing or breeding. The breeder may in fact do this because they consider the dog pet quality only and don't want the dog in the show ring - I think this should be respected.

As an example, there are two people I know n a breed who honestly fight like a pair of school girls about whether their dogs are any good or not, well several years ago, Person A managed to find a dog bred by Person B which Person B probably should have put on the limited register (they didn't) and proceeded to show it (only once) and parade it around the ground telling everyone it was Person B's breeding. While I realise this doesn't exactly match the discussion point, I think it's a good example of why the limited register exists, how it can be used and why it should be respected.

[Sandra777]

I wonder if neuter classes were open to LR then numbers might increase -

IMO Limit Reg is for dogs which are not show quality so no, I definitely wouldn't be a fan of that!

We have enough judges who honestly have little or no idea of the finer points of many breeds - filling neuter classes up with dogs which don't conform to the breed standard in major ways isn't going to help anyone.

[Bisart Dobes]

I have shown Neuters - both retired Dual Champions who were neutered due to age. It gave them a chance to get back in the ring and have some fun. I support the class and think it is valid but I do not agree with allowing limited registered dogs in the showring - the limited register is there for a reason.

If someone who has one of our dogs that is on limited register wishes to show the dog in neuter and it is good enough to be shown as an entire dog then I will transfer it onto the main neuter register so that it can be shown. But a big no to allowing any limited registered dog in the showring.

[Inevitablue]

I wonder if neuter classes were open to LR then numbers might increase -

IMO Limit Reg is for dogs which are not show quality so no, I definitely wouldn't be a fan of that!

We have enough judges who honestly have little or no idea of the finer points of many breeds - filling neuter classes up with dogs which don't conform to the breed standard in major ways isn't going to help anyone.

I agree, it was never the purpose of the limit register to then allow the dogs to be shown. I'm more suggesting a reason why neuter classes are not taking off. The bulk of the potential participants have LR dogs

[mirawee]

I think the other reason is that people not in the dog world aren't aware that neuters can now be shown!

At this stage in WA there aren't enough shows offering neuter for me to really be pushing new people to join in either. Although the shows are increasing now so I might try :)