Lab Rescue NSW/ACT Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I know in rescue we see everything, I have raised many litters of pups but NEVER until 2 days ago had a pup who looked healthy was drinking and playing just die. 29th wormed the pups it was the 4 week dose. they went off and were playing they then went over to pups mum and had a feed 2 of the 5 feel asleep attached to mum nothing new, then one got up after a drink took 2 steps and laid down like it was going to sleep it had the hicups it died not 2 minutes after laying down gave a shutter and was dead. NO infection poo normal, the vet put it down to anaphalatic reation to the worm syrup. O.k I was upset but we moved on all the other pups were fine. 30th had a vet appointment to get the remaining 4 checked over and confirm all was well, about an hour before the appointment I noticed another little girl get the hicups and start panting I check if I could bring them over now. couldn't they had an emergancy so took them to another vet and she said they this pup wasn't going to make it but they would try, She didn't they first said the pup had a worm burden (no worms found at Autopsy) the temp was normal NO infection. Her inside lining was very thin on her stomach and other organs, lots of blood inside. So my next question was did it suffer a truma like the mum squashed it or bit it (I was grasping at straws the mum in question is a very gentle girl.) the vet said no sign of any truma. Is puting it down as unknown. she then turned around and siad there is a chance you may still loose the other 3 if they make it to 12 weeks they should be fine. I'm looking for answers ideas In my head I know I did everything right but (it is really hard to understand a 4 week old healthy pups or 2 in this case dying for no reason). I read up on fading puppy my 2 were above normal weights for the age and breed. The mother came in with 3 pups already we originally thought they were 3 months old only to find out they were 6 months and mum was preg. This litter of pups could be to the mothers father or brother the people that owner her in Gundigia need to be found and shot our vet confirmed if the pups hadn't gotten out when they did they would have been dead in less than a few days. The pound called us the minute they arrived and we collected that day. Has anyone else had this happen and did they discover why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Was this their first worming? Did the syrup cover hookworm also? We had a seemingly healthy litter of pups die after worming due to the syrup causing their hookworm infestation to go feral... there were enough of them to cause massive internal bleeding when the syrup dislodged them apparently. It's heartbreaking when things like this happen... you have my deepest condolences, and best wishes for the remaining pups. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Rescue NSW/ACT Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 wormed at 2 weeks this was the second worming and it was troy puppy wormer. But when the Autopsy was done NO worms and nothing in the Poo either I was looking (gross as that is) Was this their first worming? Did the syrup cover hookworm also? We had a seemingly healthy litter of pups die after worming due to the syrup causing their hookworm infestation to go feral... there were enough of them to cause massive internal bleeding when the syrup dislodged them apparently. It's heartbreaking when things like this happen... you have my deepest condolences, and best wishes for the remaining pups. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Strange to have them apparently haemorrhage internally like that. Perhaps there is a congenital tissue weakness somewhere? Maybe in the digestive tract if worming or feeding seems to be triggering it? At the autopsy did the vet find where the bleeding seemed to have come from? I'm really sorry. At four weeks it must be very upsetting to lose them as they seem so big and strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Funny that... our pups were dosed with Troy syrup too... which apparently is only for roundworms... If the hookworms were small, you wouldn't have seen them in the poo with the naked eye - but it doesn't mean they aren't there - need to check under a microscope for more detail. A small suggestion would be to see if you can source the Canex puppy syrup for future wormings - it's gentler on the gut but still does an effective job. My instinct would definitely be that the worming on the 29th has brought about this issue - exactly why may always be a mystery too unfortunately. Crossing fingers for the other pups - and big hugs for you while you wait to see if they come along just fine. We only use Canex or Fenpral to worm all of our rescue pups now - had too many issues with Troy and Drontal... even with adult dogs. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 That is so sad. Sorry to ask..did they do tissue and organ samples at the necropsy? Not that everything can be diagnosed, it could be something so rare as to be truly 'unknown'. I'm so sorry. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Rescue NSW/ACT Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 The tissue walls were like tissue paper but she took samples to send off and do testing on yes. That is so sad. Sorry to ask..did they do tissue and organ samples at the necropsy? Not that everything can be diagnosed, it could be something so rare as to be truly 'unknown'. I'm so sorry. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Oh Lab Rescue that is terribly traumatic for you. I also remember the pups T is talking about and immediately thought of them when you mentioned the worming. I have no advice, sorry, but I would strongly consider what T has said re the worm products you use in future on pups. It certainly can't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 That is what I was wondering. It sounds like a tissue weakness. They should be more robust than they sound. If it is a very close breeding a congenital issue in the line could easily come to the fore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) I soooo hope you get an answer . The tissue walls were like tissue paper but she took samples to send off and do testing on yes. That is so sad. Sorry to ask..did they do tissue and organ samples at the necropsy? Not that everything can be diagnosed, it could be something so rare as to be truly 'unknown'. I'm so sorry. xxx Edited January 1, 2013 by Powerlegs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRT RESCUE Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Are you on tank water, what was their poos like. My girlfriend had a similar thing and had Rotty pups at 6 weeks just drop dead, but heathy up til then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Have you recently treated the mother with anything that could have been absorbed and transferred through her milk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Rescue NSW/ACT Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) the mother was in very bad health when she arrived and the same day she gave birth was at the vet for a major uterine infection and went onto antibiotics for 2 weeks to fight it she was one sick girl but the pups still did well and gained weight meet and past all milestones. We are on town water her not tank. We know it wasn't an infection as temp was normal. so the mother was wormed with Sentinal (while preg) she did have worms (on vet advise was also wormed with drontal all wormer) and had antibiotics within the pups first week of life. I'm still not convinced it was fadding puppy. Edited January 1, 2013 by Lab Rescue NSW/ACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I had pups die from Haemophillia. Not easy to diagnose because I did have pups that apparently had normal clotting times initially, and it was only after they used up reserves that they bled out. It doesnt sound similar but they can appear in some cases to be fading puppy. It is also quite rare but ask if the haemorrhage could indicate investigating this further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Because her immune system was so low when she whelped and fed and antibiotics were given, the normal passive transfer of maternal immunity may have been lowered and the ups didn't receive the level of immunity that they needed to survive long term. Has the vet checked their immunity levels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 How heartbreaking. I hope, for peace of mind, you find some answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 How heartbreaking. I hope, for peace of mind, you find some answers. Me too. I am so sorry for your losses Lab rescue. I hope the remaining pups continue to do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Im so sorry this has happened - completely heart breaking. No temperature ,no runny poos, no worms , no vomiting, thin stomach tissue .Within a day or each other ? So they are 4 weeks old - have you started to wean them.If so how are you weaning them ? How much food, what type of food how often etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) I know in rescue we see everything, I have raised many litters of pups but NEVER until 2 days ago had a pup who looked healthy was drinking and playing just die. 29th wormed the pups it was the 4 week dose. they went off and were playing they then went over to pups mum and had a feed 2 of the 5 feel asleep attached to mum nothing new, then one got up after a drink took 2 steps and laid down like it was going to sleep it had the hicups it died not 2 minutes after laying down gave a shutter and was dead. NO infection poo normal, the vet put it down to anaphalatic reation to the worm syrup. O.k I was upset but we moved on all the other pups were fine. 30th had a vet appointment to get the remaining 4 checked over and confirm all was well, about an hour before the appointment I noticed another little girl get the hicups and start panting I check if I could bring them over now. couldn't they had an emergancy so took them to another vet and she said they this pup wasn't going to make it but they would try, She didn't they first said the pup had a worm burden (no worms found at Autopsy) the temp was normal NO infection. Her inside lining was very thin on her stomach and other organs, lots of blood inside. So my next question was did it suffer a truma like the mum squashed it or bit it (I was grasping at straws the mum in question is a very gentle girl.) the vet said no sign of any truma. Is puting it down as unknown. she then turned around and siad there is a chance you may still loose the other 3 if they make it to 12 weeks they should be fine. I'm looking for answers ideas In my head I know I did everything right but (it is really hard to understand a 4 week old healthy pups or 2 in this case dying for no reason). I read up on fading puppy my 2 were above normal weights for the age and breed. The mother came in with 3 pups already we originally thought they were 3 months old only to find out they were 6 months and mum was preg. This litter of pups could be to the mothers father or brother the people that owner her in Gundigia need to be found and shot our vet confirmed if the pups hadn't gotten out when they did they would have been dead in less than a few days. The pound called us the minute they arrived and we collected that day. Has anyone else had this happen and did they discover why? It sounds like a toxic reaction to the wormer. I understand the situation is very upsetting but I dont think the dog's situation ie sire/dam combination caused what you are seeing. If anything, I would say her immune would be more likely robust to carry pregnancy and have five puppies. Edited January 1, 2013 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) wormed at 2 weeks this was the second worming and it was troy puppy wormer. But when the Autopsy was done NO worms and nothing in the Poo either I was looking (gross as that is) Troy puppy womer (Piperazine) only treats roundworm. Given the mother's history you would expect some worms to be in the puppies - although not necessarily visible to the naked eye? Did you use a microscope? Edited January 1, 2013 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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