3 Bitches? Opinions Please

[The Spotted Devil]

That is true TSD. Im sure that other people on my dally group would possibly import too, we are all willing to go in together. UK is an option too, from anywhere where the dogs would be guaranteed ANKC acceptance. I knew the AKC and KC are.

I have no idea about how to actually get what I want to happen, to happen, but I'm sure that there is a wealth of knowledge here and on my group, and elsewhere, that I can tap into.

I'd also need to actually choose which dogs would be most suitable to be sires.

I too am glad this is being discussed, and it is definitely gaining momentum. Goodness, what will I do though when I don't have a dog's diet to be pedantic over?

Yes, definitely try to bring in other breeders - I can think of some in the ACT and VIC who might be interested. Also worthwhile looking at dogs and offspring in the flesh if you can - nice holiday for you From my last trip to the US, the agility fraternity were gobsmacked that I ran a Dally in agility and obedience. And not necessarily from the "difficult to train" aspect either - they have a reputation over there for being human aggressive which is awfully sad although that may be a hangover from the 101/102 Dalmatian days. Also they allow blue eyes (which is highly associated with deafness) and their "type" appears to me to be quite different from the UK dogs so there will be a lot of homework to do - but plenty of time for that!

Did you see the Dally bitch who won BOB at Crufts last year? Not LUA but my dream in terms of moderation

Edited December 30, 2012 by The Spotted Devil

[Christina]

An entire bitch & 2 desexed bitches shouldn't be a problem. If it is its more likely to be a personality clash than due to sex. I have always kept multiple bitches & only ever had 2 who hated each other, long time ago, & that wasn't until they were 3 years old. Both had pups the same day & thought each had the others pups too as they could hear them.

My girls all run fine together but I find I cannot keep 2 entire males together.

Maybe because of the entire girls, probably fine if both are desexed.

[dotdashdot]

I'm not 100% on this (and also happy to be corrected!) but I think LUA is a simple dominant gene so it depends whether the sire is LL or Ll. In the former case (which would be unusual I think at this early stage) all offspring with HUA Dals would be Ll and therefore LUA. If the sire is Ll then mating with HUA bitch (ll) would theoretically result in 50% Ll (LUA) and 50% ll (HUA). I would think genetic testing wouldn't be too hard though.

Yes, definitely try to bring in other breeders - I can think of some in the ACT and VIC who might be interested. Also worthwhile looking at dogs and offspring in the flesh if you can - nice holiday for you From my last trip to the US, the agility fraternity were gobsmacked that I ran a Dally in agility and obedience. And not necessarily from the "difficult to train" aspect either - they have a reputation over there for being human aggressive which is awfully sad although that may be a hangover from the 101/102 Dalmatian days. Also they allow blue eyes (which is highly associated with deafness) and their "type" appears to me to be quite different from the UK dogs so there will be a lot of homework to do - but plenty of time for that!

Did you see the Dally bitch who won BOB at Crufts last year? Not LUA but my dream in terms of moderation

Ah that stuff about the 50%/50% I have read somewhere before, that's why I wrote happy to be corrected, because I had a feeling that there was something else. But testing is definitely not hard, couldn't be as difficult as BAER testing (as in, I have to travel 5 or 6 hours north or south to have potential pups tested).

I would love a US holiday...hubby does want a US trip for photography too....this could work! I have heard that dallies have a different reputation in the US too.

It is strange that blue eyes would be permitted. They are gorgeous, but deafness is prevalent enough to want to avoid anything associated with it. As far as type goes, I feel like a newbie. I know what I like when looking at a dog, though I feel that there are definitely others that are much more experienced and would call upon them for opinion. Cleo has a LOT of the American lines in her, at least on her sire's side anyway. Can't remember coming across a UK champ at all.

[dotdashdot]

Did you see the Dally bitch who won BOB at Crufts last year? Not LUA but my dream in terms of moderation

Hadn't seen her previously, but just had a look. She is gorgeous, especially love her spotting. She is a very different type to the Westminster 2011 dally RuBOB.

[Little Gifts]

We had 3 here - the youngest and oldest (both sbt rescues) were desexed. The youngest started fighting with the oldest when she was around 6 months old and it was getting really out of hand. The youngest didn't like her position in the pack but the old girl still wouldn't relinquish her spot even though she was about 13 when the fights started.

We got an Amichien Bonding person in and overnight everything changed and settled. The young girl had a role in the pack that she seemed to need. Every now and then the young girl would look like she wanted to start something but we'd be right on top of her and things would settle without any scuffle.

Our old girl went over the bridge last year at almost 17 still never having lost a fight!

This year we started fostering and said we'd only take young males. All the young males bar one got on famously with our girls. One boy was cocky and started a fight with the youngest girl first night over a toy. She lost the fight. She tolerated him while he was here but he came back for a visit after he was adopted and as soon as she saw him she wasn't having him on her turf again! We ended up taking on sibling pups to foster and the female has become a foster failure and fits in beautifully with our existing 2 girls. Pup is desexed but is also respectful of the pack heirachy.

So based on this I think it is really about individual dogs and not necessarily their sex. Our oldest dog now has always been known as the 'fun police' so any dog who lives or stays here has to be willing to pay attention to her doggy teachings and be submissive to her. With the second dog the worst thing that can happen is if a new dog takes away her role in the pack, wont play with her (or learn to play with her) and imposes on private time with her human mum.

So perhaps think about the routine now and what is important to your current dogs and try and find another to fit into what already exists? We were lucky this foster girl just happened to tick all the boxes. She has found her own niche in our pack.

[espinay2]

Any time you have more than one or two dogs you get into a space where you often need to 'manage' dogs a bit differently as pack dynamics come into play a bit more readily and complexly (is that a word? Well you know what I mean lol!) this means knowing your dogs and being aware of how they interact and being proactive in how you manage that. Entire dogs do add another level as you have the influence of hormones. Truth is, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. what is important is that you are prepared to manage the relationships that develop. Being able to separate dogs is something that breeders generally need to be able to do. Puppies from adults, bitches in season or in whelp, dogs from bitches, adults that don't get on, young from old. There are lots of situations where separation becomes a good management tool. You may do fine and be able to have them all together most of the time. Right now I can do that (though do have separate runs for them when I am out - as a rule I leave no more than two adults together when unsupervised ) in the past I had bitches who couldn't be together and crates and baby gates as well as separate runs were helpful. It was stressful at times and you do have to develop a good routine and safety protocols but you can work it when it becomes a necessity. A good setup and system is paramount. Truth is, no one will tell you if your bitches will get on. You may never have a problem. But it is good you are thinking about it so you are prepared and can manage it if you do.

[Airedaler]

I never separate, except for individual walks, shows etc, unless there is a large age difference and I am safeguarding a pup or geriatric from rough play. Again I may just be lucky with the breed I have. Very sensible to have the facilities ready if you need to though.

This mirrors my experience. In almot 40 years of having multiple bitches I have never had a fight. Maybe it helps as in most cases I have sucessove generations and the pups come into the yard after being born here and the older dogs have exposure to them from only a few weeks old. I have also had the odd bitch that does not live in my yard come in to whelp or be mated and they also are intergrated with the resident dogs without issues.

I also think some of the success comes from the fact that my dogs always run/play/live together unless there is some obvious reason why they cannot but thyese have been few and far between. Maybe I've been lucky that the dogs get along and that is why I have been able to do this but I think you would have more issues if you keep them seperate from each other.

I think if your are serious about breeding then there is not choice but to start off with a bitch. At this point a dog is not going to be suitable as a foundation for your kennel.

[tdierikx]

I've had bitches running together quite happily in most of my dog owning life... but at the moment I have 2 that while they get along fine most of the time, if there is a scrap, then it's on to the death. I choose to separate those two and play switchy swapsies as part of the routine... mainly to avoid the chance of serious injury.

I have 4 bitches currently - and it's only 2 of them I have to play swapsies with - they each get on fine with the other 2 girls.

T.

[juice]

As i have a stone forming dally, who has had 2 blockage's , i am so glad it is being addressed at last!

THANKYOU!

I am off to the states soon, i must admit i have never seen a dally there, but will see what the attitude is to them.

I have met mostly dodgy ones here too though, snappy and scrawny looking.

My boy is American bred, much stockier ,and solid temp.

[dotdashdot]

Thank you everyone for your input. I only had this thought today at lunch, of importing LUA semen and hopefully having a bitch from said litter. Before today, it was a hope that someone else would do it, now Im determined to do it myself.

I had to convince my husband, and myself, that we could make it work and as he has spent about $4000 so far on camera gear for HIS dream, I think that it is only fair that I spend up to the same amount making my dream come true.

Im so happy that Dotdashdot kennels may be here sooner than I thought.

[Rebanne]

Good luck with it all. :)

I have started semen window shopping and don't even own an entire bitch at the moment but that won't stop me. Don't let it stop you. If you have access to a nice bitch to use it on no reason why you can't just get the semen. Just make sure all arrangements are in writing.

[Ons]

My housemate and i have seven bitches runnung together, two desexed apart from the occasional snap to a younger one to put in place or a bit of narkiness when coming into season they are all fine together

[LisaCC]

Good luck with your plans! And Kudos to you bringing in LUA semen. Dalmatians have always been at the top of my 'Dogs I will own' list, but decided to hold off until there are some LUA Dallys in Australia. Very glad it is in the works :)

[dancinbcs]

I doubt you would have a problem with an entire Dally bitch and a desexed one but the Staffy X might complicate matters. Staffy's are not known for their tolerance of other bitches. I have always run mutiple entire BC bitches together with no problems.

[becks]

being new to the breeding side, I think I woul bring in a bitch and then I can use my knowledge and mentors to chose a suitable stud for her from Aus, simply so it can all be that bit more hands on about chosing a suitable stud to match the bitch; it is a lot harder to look at studs when they are in a different country and you are just going by photos or video.

The other thing with a bitch, you can have a few tries with different sires or even do a dual sire mating, so I think your options are more open then just importing semen from one dog

I have imported a male and 2 bitches and all has gone OK with them - the first bitch was a little overawd about being part of my pack and is much happier now she lives elsewhere

[Dogsfevr]

Like others have said its all about management & then its all about what you plan to keep puppy wise.

I would say as far as the breeding side goes picking a bitch that is very strong in Dalmatian features because looking at the LUA on video you can see the pointer trait there so you may find your first litter to be a mixed bunch with some aspects you don't want & then look at a stronger second generation .

[dotdashdot]

being new to the breeding side, I think I woul bring in a bitch and then I can use my knowledge and mentors to chose a suitable stud for her from Aus, simply so it can all be that bit more hands on about chosing a suitable stud to match the bitch; it is a lot harder to look at studs when they are in a different country and you are just going by photos or video.

The other thing with a bitch, you can have a few tries with different sires or even do a dual sire mating, so I think your options are more open then just importing semen from one dog

I have imported a male and 2 bitches and all has gone OK with them - the first bitch was a little overawd about being part of my pack and is much happier now she lives elsewhere

Just want to clarify that Im not importing a dog. As much as i would love to. What I was saying (and I think I didn't explain real well) was that I want to import LUA semen, use it over an aussie bitch and hopefully end up with a LUA bitch to start my kennel with. All of that would be up to chance, as a LUA/HUA mating would result in a 50:50 LUA/HUA split and then the male/female issue. As such, it would be a few years away yet!

[Mystiqview]

Friend of mine has kept two entire daly bitches and one desexed daly bitch together without issue.

I know some who cannot keep two desexed bitches/dogs together. They themselves are quite disorganised and to try to describe them rather all over the shop in their own ways.

I think it depends on you a lot and how you manage the pack and what respect you gain from the animals. (in this I mean you don't have to be mean, cruel etc. more consistent).

I have one bitch here who got stroppy when she was in season. Not a problem otherwise. No real fight to the death. Then I know others who also have poor management skills and had two bitches fight to the death.

Personally, I agree with some other comments. I would be looking at getting in a bitch, maybe a bitch in whelp. Depending on which country and quarantine rules could not make this a viable option, but maybe something to consider.

Keeping dogs when you have number restrictions is keeping a waste of space if you are wanting to breed. Don't get me wrong, I love my dog here, but even when I had two entire bitches, I could not use him on one as it was his mother. I could have used him on the other, however unless I wanted to repeat the mating a number of times, I can only use him the once too, as obviously I cannot use him on his daughter. At least if you keep bitches, you can go to which ever stud dog you want, and bring in the traits or lines you want and not be restricted as if you had a dog in your back yard.

[dotdashdot]

Keeping dogs when you have number restrictions is keeping a waste of space if you are wanting to breed. Don't get me wrong, I love my dog here, but even when I had two entire bitches, I could not use him on one as it was his mother. I could have used him on the other, however unless I wanted to repeat the mating a number of times, I can only use him the once too, as obviously I cannot use him on his daughter. At least if you keep bitches, you can go to which ever stud dog you want, and bring in the traits or lines you want and not be restricted as if you had a dog in your back yard.

And this is why I asked, I was really hoping that I would hear enough positive to feel confident enough to go ahead. I can deal with issues if they arise and being organised is important to me!

I love the temprement of the male dallies that I've met, so much more snuggly than my girl, but I love my independent girls as well. And the ability to match a good dog to a bitch I might have is, as you say, less restricting.

I hope that soon I'll be announcing when this is all happening (and there is a bit happening!), it's great to see that so many people are hanging out for LUA dals and are so supportive. The first I read of LUA dals a few years ago was quite negative (before they were accepted by the AKC) so Im so happy to hear the positive!

[Nekhbet]

I have 4 bitches and a dog here. 2 Bitches are entire, 2 are not. You don't have to have issues IF you are careful. I control all resources, I don't allow rough play time in a group, feedings are supervised and I separate them into smaller groups when I am not home so I dont have a pack of dogs running riot when I'm not home. No problems here at all everyone gets on famously, but I don't risk it.

I have a couple of mentors for breeding, one has been doing it for years. I too was thinking of semen and he said forget it, he always preferred to get the dog in instead. You have ongoing access to semen, the chance to recoup your costs (which you wont if the semen doesnt take) and the ability to use that dog over a number of bitches in the long term. Damn he twisted my arm to import just have the dogs breeding viability tested by someone you trust before import.