dotdashdot Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I would just like to gain some opinions from the wider DOL community. In the future, I plan to show and breed Dalmatians. I currently just have Cleo my nearly 2yr old desexed bitch who is working slowly to her neuter title, but we also live with my in laws who have a 7-8yr old staffyX bitch who is also desexed. These two get along fine. As part of my future plans, I want to import semen from the USA from a LUA Dalmatian stud so that I can introduce help LUA Dalmatians to Australia (there are a few of us who want to do this, it may not specifically be me, but I will do it myself if I have the ability...and money). If this were all to go to plan, I would like to start my kennels with a bitch, not a dog. I've read the horror stories on here about bitches fighting to the death, and that is what worries me. I do have the facilities to separate the dogs. Do you think it would be feasible to add another bitch? (who would remain entire). I know it would probably change the dynamic between the current two girls. I would love some opinions, if it seems all too impossible, I will wait or even get a dog instead of a bitch if the opportunity was there for a LUA dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 The bitches may or may not get along, it's always going to be a gamble whenever you introduce another dog into the pack but what counts is that you have the means and the willingness to seperate them and supervise if the need arises. It can be very stressful living with dogs that do not get along and you need to be very careful in your daily management. having said that, most breeders have more than a bitch or two. Breed plays a big part and those more expereinced with Dally's should be able to tell you more about managing a pack of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 You will get lots of views, often diametrically opposed. That is how these threads go as people have had very different experiences. It seems to depend a lot on breed, individual temperament of the bitches, management and luck. All I can say is that I have kept bitches together for many years, some desexed but most entire, and have never had a fight. Touch wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 you would find it easier, breed wise, to have a bitch. Then the whole world is open to you to import semen. Plenty of people have multiple bitches, I have in the past, had 2 GSD and one cross breed all living together in perfect harmony. You are aware of potenial problems and that puts you one step in front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotdashdot Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Thank for the opinions so far. I may ask on my dally group as well, there are several breeders on there that may also help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 No reason why you can't make it work with the sensible use of separating when unsupervised, separating while in season and just general common sense in being prepared to do the hard yards. I say separating while in season even though they're all bitches because often bitches get very snaky with each other when their hormones are raging :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I never separate, except for individual walks, shows etc, unless there is a large age difference and I am safeguarding a pup or geriatric from rough play. Again I may just be lucky with the breed I have. Very sensible to have the facilities ready if you need to though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) Thank for the opinions so far. I may ask on my dally group as well, there are several breeders on there that may also help. Definitely worth asking on the Dally list. I know Zig's breeders have multiple bitches who get along fine - they always separate when away from the house and at night and provide strong leadership when they are home. Fights can happen due to bad management eg protective bitch with puppies and a nosy one who can't resist a look! They have had many rescue Dals in the past (with no manners!) who slot in really well simply because the pack structure is well balanced. Male Dallies that I have come across (including mine) are much happier with a harem of ladies :D Huge kudos to you for considering importing LUA semen. A great progression for the breed :) Edited December 30, 2012 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotdashdot Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Yes, I not only have an area in the yard that can be divided (gets use already when I want to feed my dog a bone or use her kong wobbler and I don't want the other dog to get her food) but I also have a kennel run that is very large. I have learnt a lot from this fantastic forum =] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Depending on the dogs it may be fine. I have 7 bitchs, about half are desexed and there is never an issue. I am careful when they are in season but otherwise they are pretty good. I have had bitch issues in the past though and I find it is generally between entire bitchs and once they fight they can never be trusted again. My boys on the other hand are far more likely to fight but 10 minutes later are friends again. I don't tolerate bitch fights and have rehomed dogs over it in the past. It is no way for either the dogs or you to live with the constant risk of fighting dogs especially when it isn't just a bit of hair pulling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Also, importing semen is bloody expensive so it's worthwhile in the long run to bring in several studs (maybe UK an option also?) When you're trying to eliminate a genetic problem common to the entire breed you don't want to fall into the popular sire syndrome trap if you can help it. I can't see myself ever breeding Dals but would love an LUA one day. So pleased this is being discussed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Also, importing semen is bloody expensive so it's worthwhile in the long run to bring in several studs (maybe UK an option also?) When you're trying to eliminate a genetic problem common to the entire breed you don't want to fall into the popular sire syndrome trap if you can help it. I can't see myself ever breeding Dals but would love an LUA one day. So pleased this is being discussed! you could get approx 3 different lots of semen from 3 different dogs for the price of importing one dog. It's why I think a bitch would be best. There are risks either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotdashdot Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 That is true TSD. Im sure that other people on my dally group would possibly import too, we are all willing to go in together. UK is an option too, from anywhere where the dogs would be guaranteed ANKC acceptance. I knew the AKC and KC are. I have no idea about how to actually get what I want to happen, to happen, but I'm sure that there is a wealth of knowledge here and on my group, and elsewhere, that I can tap into. I'd also need to actually choose which dogs would be most suitable to be sires. I too am glad this is being discussed, and it is definitely gaining momentum. Goodness, what will I do though when I don't have a dog's diet to be pedantic over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I have no idea about how to actually get what I want to happen, to happen, but I'm sure that there is a wealth of knowledge here and on my group, and elsewhere, that I can tap into. I'd also need to actually choose which dogs would be most suitable to be sires. is it easy to test for LUA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I've never had issues with my entire bitches. A friend however imported a bitch and all hell broke lose with one of her resident girls. This girl got along with the other two girls but one remained an issue. I think if you're prepared to separate if you have too and manage them if something does go wrong I it's worth doing. If I decide to import again I'd like to bring in a girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotdashdot Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 I have no idea about how to actually get what I want to happen, to happen, but I'm sure that there is a wealth of knowledge here and on my group, and elsewhere, that I can tap into. I'd also need to actually choose which dogs would be most suitable to be sires. is it easy to test for LUA? Dogs are either born LUA (low uric acid) or not. Until the pointer backcross many years ago, all dallies were high uric acid and this leads to stones. The only boys I could use would have to be descendents of the backcross project. As far as I know (happy to be corrected) all offspring from a LUA dog will be LUA. (That's what I get out of this study anyway, from a quick skim read http://www.thedca.org/LUA/InheritanceHUA1938Trimble.pdf ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I have no idea about how to actually get what I want to happen, to happen, but I'm sure that there is a wealth of knowledge here and on my group, and elsewhere, that I can tap into. I'd also need to actually choose which dogs would be most suitable to be sires. is it easy to test for LUA? Dogs are either born LUA (low uric acid) or not. Until the pointer backcross many years ago, all dallies were high uric acid and this leads to stones. The only boys I could use would have to be descendents of the backcross project. As far as I know (happy to be corrected) all offspring from a LUA dog will be LUA. (That's what I get out of this study anyway, from a quick skim read http://www.thedca.org/LUA/InheritanceHUA1938Trimble.pdf ) That will make life easier then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Also, importing semen is bloody expensive so it's worthwhile in the long run to bring in several studs (maybe UK an option also?) When you're trying to eliminate a genetic problem common to the entire breed you don't want to fall into the popular sire syndrome trap if you can help it. I can't see myself ever breeding Dals but would love an LUA one day. So pleased this is being discussed! you could get approx 3 different lots of semen from 3 different dogs for the price of importing one dog. It's why I think a bitch would be best. There are risks either way. Sorry - I meant semen not actual dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I have no idea about how to actually get what I want to happen, to happen, but I'm sure that there is a wealth of knowledge here and on my group, and elsewhere, that I can tap into. I'd also need to actually choose which dogs would be most suitable to be sires. is it easy to test for LUA? Dogs are either born LUA (low uric acid) or not. Until the pointer backcross many years ago, all dallies were high uric acid and this leads to stones. The only boys I could use would have to be descendents of the backcross project. As far as I know (happy to be corrected) all offspring from a LUA dog will be LUA. (That's what I get out of this study anyway, from a quick skim read http://www.thedca.org/LUA/InheritanceHUA1938Trimble.pdf ) I'm not 100% on this (and also happy to be corrected!) but I think LUA is a simple dominant gene so it depends whether the sire is LL or Ll. In the former case (which would be unusual I think at this early stage) all offspring with HUA Dals would be Ll and therefore LUA. If the sire is Ll then mating with HUA bitch (ll) would theoretically result in 50% Ll (LUA) and 50% ll (HUA). I would think genetic testing wouldn't be too hard though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I am finding this very interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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