What Happened In 2008/2009/2010

[Rebanne]

When did they change the points system for showing - the smaller shows started attracting less points didn't they? To slow down people from going where there was less competition to get the required points?

T.

maybe only for point score comps.

[Sheridan]

It could be something as simple as older breeders retiring and there being less younger breeders coming up. How much encouragement is there for new breeders from older breeders? It all seems to be a push for co-ownership these days and breeders terms rather than mentoring new people.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Sheridan

[Parkeyre]

As to tail docking, this procedure was still legal in W.A. until March 2010.

Offtopic, but can you please PM me the proof for this? Thanks.

[Jed]

As to tail docking, this procedure was still legal in W.A. until March 2010.

Offtopic, but can you please PM me the proof for this? Thanks.

Why not go and look up the date yourself? Then you will believe it

[Wundahoo]

For Parkeyre and any others who need "proof".

In W.A. tail docking was legal for PROPHYLACTIC purposes until 2010 when the regulations were changed to remove the wording that previously permitted prophylactic docking.

Here is your proof, chapter and verse, Government Gazette page 978.

http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/gazette/GAZETTE.NSF/gazlist/7514FCCD295917CA482576E7001411B2/$file/gg038.pdf

Sorry to hijack the thread a little and not intending to turn it into another TD debate but there are those who were never convinced of the legality of tail docking in W.A. prior to the ammendments in March 2010. This covers both situations, giving the "old" wording and the new ammendment.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Wundahoo

[cowanbree]

I know in NZ the past few year the homes are just not as plentiful as they used to be. Breeders were left with unsold puppies and that made them reluctant to breed again so there was a period of about 18mths when there were very few puppies of my breed. This meant everyone had bitchs waiting to have their first/last litter and so everyone bred them all within a very short period of time which left unsold puppies again and so it goes on

[Parkeyre]

For Parkeyre and any others who need "proof".

In W.A. tail docking was legal for PROPHYLACTIC purposes until 2010 when the regulations were changed to remove the wording that previously permitted prophylactic docking.

Here is your proof, chapter and verse, Government Gazette page 978.

http://www.slp.wa.go...$file/gg038.pdf

Sorry to hijack the thread a little and not intending to turn it into another TD debate but there are those who were never convinced of the legality of tail docking in W.A. prior to the ammendments in March 2010. This covers both situations, giving the "old" wording and the new ammendment.

Thanks.

I wasn't looking to cause an argument, I genuinely wanted some solid evidence, having a traditionally docked breed and all.

[dancinbcs]

The lowest year for overall registrations was 2006 in the middle of the drought when so many bitches were missing or only having singletons. I know of breeders who mated up to 6 bitches over about 18 months and didn't get any in whelp. Another breeder with a medium size breed had 4 litters with 4 caesars in a month, for a total of just 7 live puppies. Since the drought broke these breeders have bred a couple of normal size litters a year.

The other years the popularity of different breeds accounts for the changes. Breeds like Bull Terriers, Collies, Corgis, Dalmatians, Rotties, Dobes BCs and especially GSDs, all had turns at being too popular with shonky short term breeders cashing in on demand. When they work out it isn't such an easy way to make money they disappear and the numbers drop back to those just from dedicated breeders. Now it is the turn of SBTs and Amstaffs to be too popular and have way too many bred for the available homes.

I am old enough to remember a time when Wire Fox Terriers, Cockers, Afghans and OES were the "must have" breeds but that was a long time ago before I was ever really involved with the dog world.

[Airedaler]

When did they change the points system for showing - the smaller shows started attracting less points didn't they? To slow down people from going where there was less competition to get the required points?

T.

ANKC points have not changed. If there has been any change it would be from things such as DOL Point Score and these have no bearing on gaining an official title of any sort.

Although the tail docking came in in Vic about 2004 there was a further change some years later - my foggy memory says it could be 2010 - that closed loopholes. Cannot remember the details now.

[Steve]

It could be something as simple as older breeders retiring and there being less younger breeders coming up. How much encouragement is there for new breeders from older breeders? It all seems to be a push for co-ownership these days and breeders terms rather than mentoring new people.

Could be - no doubt that the difficulty for breeders to source good dogs anymore is an impact but Id expect that to be a consistent drop what bought my attention to these years is that it went up - in almost every breed and then dropped again.

[asal]

The lowest year for overall registrations was 2006 in the middle of the drought when so many bitches were missing or only having singletons. I know of breeders who mated up to 6 bitches over about 18 months and didn't get any in whelp. Another breeder with a medium size breed had 4 litters with 4 caesars in a month, for a total of just 7 live puppies. Since the drought broke these breeders have bred a couple of normal size litters a year.

The other years the popularity of different breeds accounts for the changes. Breeds like Bull Terriers, Collies, Corgis, Dalmatians, Rotties, Dobes BCs and especially GSDs, all had turns at being too popular with shonky short term breeders cashing in on demand. When they work out it isn't such an easy way to make money they disappear and the numbers drop back to those just from dedicated breeders. Now it is the turn of SBTs and Amstaffs to be too popular and have way too many bred for the available homes.

I am old enough to remember a time when Wire Fox Terriers, Cockers, Afghans and OES were the "must have" breeds but that was a long time ago before I was ever really involved with the dog world.

pretty good research, I remember that too.

soo many calls,, "none of my bitches are going in pup? What am I doing wrong?"

In our case having cattle and plenty of neighburs and friends with sheep, horses u name it, all off the planet, cycle and pregnancy wise. maybe 2008/9/10 were the catch up years before the parents were too old to keep the lines going for the next generations?

Edited January 2, 2013 by asal

[Steve]

I don't think its the drought - the drought broke in late 2010 so That would affect regos in early 2011 but they were higher in 2009 when the drought was at its height.

[Steve]

The Aussie dollar went right down to around .60cents - would have made the export market more attractive.

[Sheridan]

The Aussie dollar went right down to around .60cents - would have made the export market more attractive.

I think for some breeders the export market was always more attractive. Perhaps the large number of breeders who were selling to McWossname are no longer doing so and have thus stopped breeding.

[Steve]

Could be right Sheridan

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/139909-be-careful-of-mr-d-a-mcdougal-america/

[Steve]

This one was written in 2007 and tells of how they specialise in Aussie puppies and that there are new shops coming for 2008.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Sep/12/bz/hawaii709120396.html

[Steve]

2011 - http://www.staradvertiser.com/business/20110617_ward_centre_restaurant_closes_after_8_months.html?id=124059049Pet's Discount files bankruptcy

The parent company of the now-closed Pet's Discount Warehouse and Pet's Central has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy liquidation, as have its principals, Daniel A. McDougal and Dirk C. Budd.

M&B Pets Inc., parent company of sister retailers Pet's Discount and Pet's Central, listed assets of $1.1 million and debts of $3.2 million. Its more than 100 creditors include Kamehameha Schools, which owns the leasehold interest under the building M&B owns on Malaai Street.

The company had about 15 employees, all but three or four of whom were left without jobs when the store closed earlier this month. A handful of employees got jobs with a new venture, Pet Hale, opening today in Waikele Center.

Pet's Discount President McDougal listed assets of $959,746 and debts of $3.1 million, while Vice President Budd listed assets of $968,571 and debts of $3.4 million. Individual filings by McDougal and Budd show each made a $167,496 loan to M&B Pets.

The chain had six locations but began closing stores late last year, beginning in Market City. Others in Hawaii Kai, Kaneohe, Waikele Center and on Nimitz Highway followed.

The Salt Lake location had been a store within a store.

It is possible that economic issues and changing societal attitudes took their toll on the business, observed Mark Ambard, a commercial real estate broker who had done business with M&B.

"Competition from big boxes and social attitudes about animals and where you get them may have had something to do with it."

[Sheridan]

I don't know why but I lack sympathy regarding this failed business.

[Steve]

I don't know why but I lack sympathy regarding this failed business.

yep me too.

[asal]

The Aussie dollar went right down to around .60cents - would have made the export market more attractive.

I think for some breeders the export market was always more attractive. Perhaps the large number of breeders who were selling to McWossname are no longer doing so and have thus stopped breeding.

I used the same vet who did the export papers, very interesting take from some of the sellers I met who took them for a pre check to make sure they would pass before they were dropped off.

Preferred to sell overseas so other fellow breeders had no chance of access to their 'lines'.

Some very well known show kennels preferred to be paid a fraction of the price a fellow breeder would have been willing to pay for one of their pups. This was straight from the breeder not second hand. Some even had seperate prefixes to they who liked to watch the export lists couldnt know ..

One of my friends sold just about every pup they didnt keep themselves to them, I did sell some and found they even sent you back photos of the new owner with the pup. Even had some who came to australia for a holiday, would phone to ask if they could meet their puppies parents. Some even became so wrapped in their purebred puppy they applied for a prefix and became members. No puppy was acceepted unless it was on main register.

So a new owner who did discover they had a very nice dog had the opportunity to decide if they wanted to become involved in the pedigree dog world.

One young couple I met who came out here on their Honeymoon and heard from their friend who had one of our chi pups, that we had some cattledogs as well as the chihuahua's fell head over heels in love with Rokeglen Red Rhyme, she was not for sale at any price, so I referred them to Hilton Sinclair who had some of her pups so two ended up founding a kennel in Hawai.

My assessment of what I saw anyway was many happy new owners, breeders were not really doing themselves any favours money wise, If I didnt feel like dealing with joe public for a while, I would sell some to Mcdougal, although I discovered when I did , the people who bought them were marvellous and eager to be friends and quite often wanted to see the parents of their pup.

yes, Its burningly obvious if your desperate to fit into 'ethical' you dont admit to being such a sicko. but since the label was already firmly stuck long before when it became painfully obvious I intended to walk to my own drum and not grovel to the self proclaimed thought police I did check em out.

Your little cotton socks would fall off if you knew the names of the establisment so busy tut tutting and think I dont know who they are.. I didnt at the time but my in the circle friends did when I pointed out the until then unknown faces I had met there...

From what Ive seen,heard and learned over the decades, to me

establishment/hypocricity are one in the same word and meaning, to me anyway.

Edited January 2, 2013 by asal