Maremmas In Show.

[Are You Serious Jo]

But what special purpose do yours do? If you can have them and not work them why can't others?

Edited April 10, 2013 by Reverend Jo

[mixeduppup]

That's part of the beauty of the breed - yours live a completely different life to mine - even more so than the working ones but they suit each of us even though what is normal in our worlds is so much different.

Again I say its about what is normal and in my opinion if a Maremma is going to be a show dog and have strangers handle it when its off its own turf on leash then it should be able to cope with it as much as any other dog being shown. There is certainly no reason why the breed should be stopped from being shown but the fact is if the dogs are selected for how they look and not also how they work inevitably our breed will end up like the Kelpies and Border Collies - huge gap between those that work and those that are shown and I would hate it to go that way.

Well, the questions centred around their suitability as regular dometic pets.

I have not seen your dogs with your visitors, but my dogs will not let anybody approach me whether it is inside the house or outside. I have to strategically place myself in a position so that any movement by others will be away from me.

A few years back I was walking the dogs and a neighbour started to become aggressive and raised his voice.

Winja was up on his back legs staring him in the eyes and barking at him.

The dogs are protective instinctively, they know their business and they do it flawlessly.

But I would not expect them to be listed as your everyday take home dog to be left with young children who naturally have friends that come and go.

In my experience that would not just be irresponsible but criminal.

They are a special purpose dog, and if you do not have a special purpose, then another dog should be considered.

Regards

So what are your dogs' special purpose? Do you have a stash of sheep or poultry somewhere in suburbia? I believe that the maremma will give itself a purpose, whether it is guarding a flock or guarding your house/you. My maremma is polite when out on walks but will guard the yard unless we are there and tell him it's ok. He has backyard pets and protects them religiously but his 'purpose' has been adapted to suit his living environment and depth of socialisation. That's the great thing about maremmas, if kept in a non-working situation they will always have a purpose as long as their management is correct.

[Steve]

That's part of the beauty of the breed - yours live a completely different life to mine - even more so than the working ones but they suit each of us even though what is normal in our worlds is so much different.

Again I say its about what is normal and in my opinion if a Maremma is going to be a show dog and have strangers handle it when its off its own turf on leash then it should be able to cope with it as much as any other dog being shown. There is certainly no reason why the breed should be stopped from being shown but the fact is if the dogs are selected for how they look and not also how they work inevitably our breed will end up like the Kelpies and Border Collies - huge gap between those that work and those that are shown and I would hate it to go that way.

Well, the questions centred around their suitability as regular dometic pets.

I have not seen your dogs with your visitors, but my dogs will not let anybody approach me whether it is inside the house or outside. I have to strategically place myself in a position so that any movement by others will be away from me.

A few years back I was walking the dogs and a neighbour started to become aggressive and raised his voice.

Winja was up on his back legs staring him in the eyes and barking at him.

The dogs are protective instinctively, they know their business and they do it flawlessly.

But I would not expect them to be listed as your everyday take home dog to be left with young children who naturally have friends that come and go.

In my experience that would not just be irresponsible but criminal.

They are a special purpose dog, and if you do not have a special purpose, then another dog should be considered.

Regards

My dogs yell about anyone approaching until they get to the front of the house and I welcome them in - they then seem not to notice.

One example . We had a visitor who didnt even know the dog was in the house - she was in an adjoining room seemingly asleep.

This guy is there about half an hour and stood up quickly and raised his voice and his arm telling my husband a joke .In a heartbeat the dog was between them and this guy knew he was about to die if he didnt sit down and stop. For the rest of the visit the dog sat at my hubby's feet between him and the visitor and if the visitor looked like he was going to stand or if he became too animated the dog sat up looked him in the eye and gave a low growl . Hubby took the dog out back to enable the visitor to stand up and leave. This man could never get back in the gate again without fear of being killed so he rang each time before he arrived and we put the dog where she couldnt get to him.

But the same dog would never be like that with anyone else until she perceived a real threat - something other than normal. When the grandkids are here the dogs ensure they dont get out off the porch area .We sit and smile as the dogs simply calmly place themselves in front of the toddlers to stop them from going anywhere and the kids act like its a walking frame and the nice dog brings them back around to their Mum's.The kids dont even click that this what the dogs are doing .Ive never really worked out whether the dogs are protecting the kids or protecting what is off the porch from the kids. They seem to actively go after cuddles from kids and the frail but sit a distance away when older kids or adults visit - they have no interest in making friends.

I had one which was born the same day as my youngest son. I had to train her not to lick the bottoms of his feet when he was a baby. I watched her simply round him up and bring him back to the house if a strange car pulled up putting herself between the gate and the kid .He had kids coming and going to play and the dog sat in the sand pit with them .When they played chasing games she watched but if he fell she was first there to make sure he was O.K. and the stories about his relationship with her could fill a couple of books. Once only ever did we have an "incident"

As you know my first 6 kids are adults - 2 are younger - 26 years between my eldest and my youngest so eldest son wasnt living at home when I had my last son and the dog didnt know him. He came home for a visit and we introduced them as we always do and all was good. But one day I was in the yard with the baby - toddler - and son raced up behind us grabbed the baby and threw him up and let out a woooop .Before anyone saw it coming dog bit son on the back of the leg .Not enough to draw blood or leave a bruise but enough to let him know to put the kid down and not move.For the rest of the visit eldest son was able to do everything he wanted except go into youngest sons bedroom and at first there was never a minute that the dog wasn't between eldest and youngest son. It took about 2 days to show the dog eldest son wasn't a threat to the baby and eldest son was able to wrestle with the baby and blow raspberries on his tummy etc. But seriously in 22 years I have never had a single concern for my kids, my grandkids or any visitors kids and Id trust a Maremma with a child more than I would most people just as I trust them with lambs which are a minute old. The stuff they do with autistic kids is brilliant and that doesn't prevent people, therapists, caregivers, baby sitters etc coming and going etc. they do go in and out of nursing homes etc and thats not because they have been bred differently or altered its because that's what is normal for them.

Seriously Tralee it is about what is normal and for your dogs normal is different to mine. They can and do live with a family and treat that as their special purpose just as they do any other job,penguins, wallabies, quokka, rabbits, chickens, cats, other dogs, sheep, goats, horses, cattle, as long as they are treated as a family/herd/mob/ member.

Yours dont see visitors so they are working based on that just as some of mine dont want anyone else other than who they know coming into a paddock and they will position themselves between the sheep and the stranger in case they have come to steal them or hurt them. Mine also know the normal drill when you come here so if you try to jump the fence or come in the wrong gate

they will knock you down. The guy who came to service the septic tank was hit behind the knees and skittled as he got out of his ute and pinned by the dog's feet on his shoulders on the ground until I arrived to save him and that was simply done by me softly saying "its O.K. come here" and she let him up straight away but the way he entered the property was way different to anyone else.

Someone late one night tried to come over the house fence too and the only evidence we saw of that was some blood and half a leg ripped off his jeans and a shoe.He seemed to have gone back over the fence quicker than he came in - because it wasnt normal.

So yes of course they don't suit everyone or every household especially those in suburbia but no breed does suit everyone- but to consider them not suitable is pets is something Ill never agree with.

[Are You Serious Jo]

All the maremmas I've heard about accept a person if the owner does. To want to attack even when the owner isn't giving danger cues is a bit of a worry and I'm not surprised you don't want to see your lines in homes tralee.

[Steve]

All the maremmas I've heard about accept a person if the owner does. To want to attack even when the owner isn't giving danger cues is a bit of a worry and I'm not surprised you don't want to see your lines in homes tralee.

Tralees dogs come from the same lines as all of our dogs and it just that they live according to what is normal for them.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Then he must be anxious with every visitor, that's the only way to explain the behaviour. Have you tired indicating to them that everything is ok before they go the visitors tralee?

[BlackJaq]

I have to say I am enjoying this discussion a lot especially since I have been looking into getting an LGD to guard my various types of poultry. It is good to read owner experiences re: management with strangers/visitors and such

[Steve]

Its not just strangers and visitors its predators too. Around here crows are a curse and my Maremma share their food with magpies but wont tolerate crows to a point where the crows wont even fly over any paddock the dogs are in. On free range poulty farms they take out the eagles but show nothing but care for the chickens.

Years ago I had one which was bonded to my cats.I would watch her work like mad to get the kittens to love her with all of her body language seeming to be exagerated .The kittens would choose to sleep with her rather than their Mum by 6 weeks of age and they used her like a mountain. She tipped toed around them and was a never ending source of amazement. One ,morning I got up and let her out to go to the toot and bugger me she saw a wild cat in the front lawn and in a heart beat she had picked it up shaken it , broken it's back and tossed it over the fence. How did she know the difference? How does one dog know the difference between a magpie and a crow?

[myValkyrie]

That's part of the beauty of the breed - yours live a completely different life to mine - even more so than the working ones but they suit each of us even though what is normal in our worlds is so much different.

Again I say its about what is normal and in my opinion if a Maremma is going to be a show dog and have strangers handle it when its off its own turf on leash then it should be able to cope with it as much as any other dog being shown. There is certainly no reason why the breed should be stopped from being shown but the fact is if the dogs are selected for how they look and not also how they work inevitably our breed will end up like the Kelpies and Border Collies - huge gap between those that work and those that are shown and I would hate it to go that way.

This - all of it but especially the bolded part. I love the fact that they can be a wonderful companion (I have one at my feet while I'm typing) but I depend upon their exceptional working ability.

[Tralee]

I have to say I am enjoying this discussion a lot especially since I have been looking into getting an LGD to guard my various types of poultry. It is good to read owner experiences re: management with strangers/visitors and such

When I moved to Lismore from Broken Hill to work at Nimbin Cemtral School I had to take my two dogs to school with me and put them in the Ag. plot because I had not found a house and they could not be left alone in crates in the Caravan Park during the day while I was away.

On the first day, the Ag. assistant rang up to the school that Winja had killed the rooster. No blame was placed on the dog because the Ag Assistant had not corralled the aggressive rooster. The rooster had caused numerable injuries to students and they were glad to be rid of it. I can only imagine the rooster having a go at the dog.

On the second day, when I went to collect the dogs my big girl was missing. Of course I thought the worst and scoured the perimeter for a carcass left from snake bit. No carcass. I then thought one of the kids had taken her because she would go with anybody. Just as I was leaving I looked over to the chook pen and Sooki was sitting under a tree. Because of the previous days events, I frantically looked for dead chickens. None could be found. Sooki had camped under the tree in the chool pen. She was doing what she only knew innately because at three years of age she had never been with a chicken. Not only that, she was determined not to come home with me, she had a responsibility and was committed to it.

My dog numbers increased from one to four progessively, Each new dog competed with the previous dog/s to protect them. On property they protected the pack, and their vigilance increased when there were litters on the ground. Dogs are livestock too, and the Maremma is a livestock guardian. It is an astounding thing to observe how they have a division of labour when threats arise. One dog takes the fence, another stays close to me and I get pushed back away from the danger, inbetween the dogs are ready to reinforce their defence or increase the security around me as the case may be.

I have homed several dogs and there are testimonials to their suitability and success on my dog's website.

But that does not mean just anybody would be advised by me to get a Maremma or that I would home a puppy with just anybody.

My summation is: you need brains if you are going to keep a dog and good brains if you have a Maremma.

Regards

[Steve]

I have to say I am enjoying this discussion a lot especially since I have been looking into getting an LGD to guard my various types of poultry. It is good to read owner experiences re: management with strangers/visitors and such

When I moved to Lismore from Broken Hill to work at Nimbin Cemtral School I had to take my two dogs to school with me and put them in the Ag. plot because I had not found a house and they could not be left alone in crates in the Caravan Park during the day while I was away.

On the first day, the Ag. assistant rang up to the school that Winja had killed the rooster. No blame was placed on the dog because the Ag Assistant had not corralled the aggressive rooster. The rooster had caused numerable injuries to students and they were glad to be rid of it. I can only imagine the rooster having a go at the dog.

On the second day, when I went to collect the dogs my big girl was missing. Of course I thought the worst and scoured the perimeter for a carcass left from snake bit. No carcass. I then thought one of the kids had taken her because she would go with anybody. Just as I was leaving I looked over to the chook pen and Sooki was sitting under a tree. Because of the previous days events, I frantically looked for dead chickens. None could be found. Sooki had camped under the tree in the chool pen. She was doing what she only knew innately because at three years of age she had never been with a chicken. Not only that, she was determined not to come home with me, she had a responsibility and was committed to it.

My dog numbers increased from one to four progessively, Each new dog competed with the previous dog/s to protect them. On property they protected the pack, and their vigilance increased when there were litters on the ground. Dogs are livestock too, and the Maremma is a livestock guardian. It is an astounding thing to observe how they have a division of labour when threats arise. One dog takes the fence, another stays close to me and I get pushed back away from the danger, inbetween the dogs are ready to reinforce their defence or increase the security around me as the case may be.

I have homed several dogs and there are testimonials to their suitability and success on my dog's website.

But that does not mean just anybody would be advised by me to get a Maremma or that I would home a puppy with just anybody.

My summation is: you need brains if you are going to keep a dog and good brains if you have a Maremma.

Regards

I dont think any one would disagree with you.I wouldnt place a Maremma pup with just anyone and I work like mad in the hope that anyone who does get one knows the breed enough to be able to do it justice - but then I wouldnt place a beagle pup with just anyone either.

[zoiboy]

Before we went to the meeting about the Reviews of the companion animals act we went to see

one of the pups from our litter last April.

Here is Banjo doing what he was bred to do, he has not lost a bird since taking the job.

[Tralee]

Before we went to the meeting about the Reviews of the companion animals act we went to see

one of the pups from our litter last April.

Here is Banjo doing what he was bred to do, he has not lost a bird since taking the job.

Looks like a lovely dog but the angle is off.

ETA. What, 12 months! Very nice size.

Indubitably, they work flawlessly but they can also be big clowns.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Tralee

[mixeduppup]

Here's Ammo doing his best to make my cousin feel at home. I just love this breed and think I will always have one.

[Tralee]

Il vero pastore abruzzese,tutto il resto è noia..........

The true shepherd abruzzo, all the rest is nothing ....

[mixeduppup]

Il vero pastore abruzzese,tutto il resto è noia..........

The true shepherd abruzzo, all the rest is nothing ....

What do you mean by that? It could be misconstrued and seen as offensive to a lot of maremma owners and breeders.

[Rebanne]

if it's nothing why did you even bother starting this thread???????

[Tralee]

Il vero pastore abruzzese,tutto il resto è noia..........

The true shepherd abruzzo, all the rest is nothing ....

What do you mean by that? It could be misconstrued and seen as offensive to a lot of maremma owners and breeders.

if it's nothing why did you even bother starting this thread???????

Why do you need to be selective in your interpretation and choose to take offense when clearly no offense is intended.

The frame is balanced showing a Maremma in its traditional environment performing its traditional function and the current ultimate show dogs.

It is obvious it is not my picture or my comment but indeed shows the common dialogue between us and the Italians.

The comment belongs to Pasquale Luciani who was responding to - Pastore Abruzzese, detto anche Cane da pecore dell'Abruzzo.

I included the photos of Anna Albrigo's dogs as a counter point to Pasquale's claim.

But there is no totally oppositional polemic between traditionalists and show breeders. It is a false dichotomy.

And I doubt any breeds have been developed exclusively for the show ring.

My point in this thread is that there are World Class Champion Maremmas.

On their day they are the best dogs in the World.

I am sure Australia has a share of potential World Champions across our many breeds.

But why should Italy have a monopoly on World Class Maremmas?

Our dogs work to world standards, they could be elevated to an indelible and insuperable Show Class as well.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Tralee

[Tralee]

[zoiboy]

Oh look there is Caferio and his mother. do you get permission to use these photo's tralee?