Maremmas In Show.

[espinay2]

Have to agree with Steve. The issue isn't breeding or owning a dog with a significant fault. I am betting we have all had one or more at some point (I know I have). But rather the defending of it as being of no consequence in a breeding program.

[zoiboy]

I agree with Steve and Espinay as well. Having a dog with a fault

is not actually serious, it's how you use the knowladge gained.

We have all had or bred a dog we would rather had been better

or sounder or some such. how we use that to move forward.

Just to give an *awwww* factor, here are Freya and Grif with

brand new fans yesterday as we went back to the Italian Festival

[Tralee]

While we are talking about faults, check this out.

The standard is not a static entity, but is and should be constantly under revision.

infatti noi del circolo abbiamo proposto all'enci e all'fci, delle modifiche sullo standard,riguardo la testa, il peso, lo spessore del muso ed altre misurazioni, il comitato tecnico prendera' decisioni in merito. visto nel cpma non si e' ciechi ma si lavora per il miglioramento della razza sempre.

Translation: "Infact, the club [The Maremmano Abruzzese Club (cmpa)], has proposed to the ENCI [italian Kennel Club] and the FCI [international Kennel Federation] that a modification of the standard, in regards to the head, the weight, the thickness of the muzzle and other measurements, be given merit by the technical committee. As seen, the cpma is not blind but it always works for the improvement of the breed.

These comments were made in relation to the dog shown, who is just four and a half months old.

[WreckitWhippet]

While we are talking about faults, check this out.

The standard is not a static entity, but is and should be constantly under revision.

infatti noi del circolo abbiamo proposto all'enci e all'fci, delle modifiche sullo standard,riguardo la testa, il peso, lo spessore del muso ed altre misurazioni, il comitato tecnico prendera' decisioni in merito. visto nel cpma non si e' ciechi ma si lavora per il miglioramento della razza sempre.

Translation: "Infact, the club [The Maremmano Abruzzese Club (cmpa)], has proposed to the ENCI [italian Kennel Club] and the FCI [international Kennel Federation] that a modification of the standard, in regards to the head, the weight, the thickness of the muzzle and other measurements, be given merit by the technical committee. As seen, the cpma is not blind but it always works for the improvement of the breed.

These comments were made in relation to the dog shown, who is just four and a half months old.

Dogs are supposed to be bred to the standard and measure up as closely as possible to the defined standard for the breed. The breed standard should not be altered because of flavour or the month/year or dogs have been bred away from it and no longer meet the existing criteria.

[Steve]

While we are talking about faults, check this out.

The standard is not a static entity, but is and should be constantly under revision.

infatti noi del circolo abbiamo proposto all'enci e all'fci, delle modifiche sullo standard,riguardo la testa, il peso, lo spessore del muso ed altre misurazioni, il comitato tecnico prendera' decisioni in merito. visto nel cpma non si e' ciechi ma si lavora per il miglioramento della razza sempre.

Translation: "Infact, the club [The Maremmano Abruzzese Club (cmpa)], has proposed to the ENCI [italian Kennel Club] and the FCI [international Kennel Federation] that a modification of the standard, in regards to the head, the weight, the thickness of the muzzle and other measurements, be given merit by the technical committee. As seen, the cpma is not blind but it always works for the improvement of the breed.

These comments were made in relation to the dog shown, who is just four and a half months old.

Dogs are supposed to be bred to the standard and measure up as closely as possible to the defined standard for the breed. The breed standard should not be altered because of flavour or the month/year or dogs have been bred away from it and no longer meet the existing criteria.

Yep improvement of the breed isnt necessarily changing the standard to fit how its been changed - improving the breed is supposed to be it remaining constant .

[Tralee]

The standard is a fiction. Its been made up, its an ideal based on what people believe in any historical milieu.

You cannot dictate to evolution.

If you think genetic manipulation, either selective breeding or in vitro, has made us Gods of the Cosmos then you are deluded.

I don't think I have ever heard a more shallow, philosophically flawed view.

[espinay2]

My question would be what are the amendments they are proposing? Are they clarifications to make the meaning clearer so there is less ambiguity? You say they were said in relation to the photo but the context is not clear. Is there currently room for interpretation that they are trying to remove? Or are they changing it in some other way?

[Tralee]

My question would be what are the amendments they are proposing? Are they clarifications to make the meaning clearer so there is less ambiguity? You say they were said in relation to the photo but the context is not clear. Is there currently room for interpretation that they are trying to remove? Or are they changing it in some other way?

You would have to ask the CMPA directly espinay2.

But there always has to be room for admitting: Oh We got this bit wrong.

The tag to the peice I translated was: As can be seen, the cpma is not blind but it always works for the improvement of the breed.

The standard is open. Breeding is not a closed shop. Noone has a monopoly or a hegemony on how the future of the breed will advance.

Regards.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Breeding to a standard is done by artificial selection and it can have very predictable results. We can also move in any direction we like so yes, we can become "Gods in our cosmos" :laugh: Are you saying the dogs will change no matter what we do even when we are selection away from that change? How can that happen when we choose the genetic material used?

[espinay2]

No Tralee, I would suggest YOU find out what the changes are before making conclusions about them. Standards are amended all the time. The Pyrenean Standard was amended last year. Most of the changes are in relation to the standardisation or clarification of wording - the kennel controls generally require standards take on a standard form and wording and often as these requirements change so do the standards. Without knowing exactly what the changes are that are being proposed there is absolutely NO WAY to know the intent or effect of those changes. Any discussion of changes without knowing what they actually are is wild conjecture at best, possibly misleading, and serves absolutely no purpose at all.

[Tralee]

No Tralee, I would suggest YOU find out what the changes are before making conclusions about them. Standards are amended all the time. The Pyrenean Standard was amended last year. Most of the changes are in relation to the standardisation or clarification of wording - the kennel controls generally require standards take on a standard form and wording and often as these requirements change so do the standards. Without knowing exactly what the changes are that are being proposed there is absolutely NO WAY to know the intent or effect of those changes. Any discussion of changes without knowing what they actually are is wild conjecture at best, possibly misleading, and serves absolutely no purpose at all.

So what did you think of the pups head?

The changes were listed:

la testa, il peso, lo spessore del muso ed altre misurazioni

I can't really be clearer than that.

[Are You Serious Jo]

No Tralee, I would suggest YOU find out what the changes are before making conclusions about them. Standards are amended all the time. The Pyrenean Standard was amended last year. Most of the changes are in relation to the standardisation or clarification of wording - the kennel controls generally require standards take on a standard form and wording and often as these requirements change so do the standards. Without knowing exactly what the changes are that are being proposed there is absolutely NO WAY to know the intent or effect of those changes. Any discussion of changes without knowing what they actually are is wild conjecture at best, possibly misleading, and serves absolutely no purpose at all.

So what did you think of the pups head?

The changes were listed:

la testa, il peso, lo spessore del muso ed altre misurazioni

I can't really be clearer than that.

Well yeah, you could post it in English :rofl:

[Rebanne]

They want to change the standard on the basis of one pup?????

[zoiboy]

They want to change the standard on the basis of one pup?????

I don't know what tralee is on aout but I can not see anyone actually

suggesting that the standard be changed to suit that pup. or for that matter

any other single dog. methinks tralee is looking for amusment in the form

of a war of words.

[espinay2]

ma non ci dice come le cose cambieranno

[zoiboy]

ma non ci dice come le cose cambieranno

:rofl: :rofl:

perché le cose non cambieranno

[Rebanne]

ma non ci dice come le cose cambieranno

:rofl: :rofl:

perché le cose non cambieranno

c'mom you two, don't go all tralee on us who don't speak the lingo :laugh:

[zoiboy]

ma non ci dice come le cose cambieranno

:rofl: :rofl:

perché le cose non cambieranno

c'mom you two, don't go all tralee on us who don't speak the lingo :laugh:

try this Rebanne, it works a treat for those of us who do NOT speak the lingo

http://translate.google.com.au/#auto/it/because%20things%20will%20not%20change

[espinay2]

ma non ci dice come le cose cambieranno

:rofl: :rofl:

perché le cose non cambieranno

:rofl: :rofl:

[Tralee]

ma non ci dice come le cose cambieranno

:rofl: :rofl:

perché le cose non cambieranno

ma non lo dicevo cosi.

ho detto che gli italiani vogliono cambiare il standard