Rebanne Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Maybe Tralee's dogs aren't sound in temperament which is why he keeps trying to say the judges are approaching the dogs wrong? It's a recurring theme of his - the judges always don't handle/approach his dogs in the correct way, therefore putting his dogs at a disadvantage. I've seen more than one judge have difficulties with dogs and not just with Maremmas either. So have I but the dogs in question did not exhibit very sound temperament at that time. Because of the judge or because of the dog I've seen dogs awarded that the judge never touched, also seen them dumped. Why would you even show a dog not even you could touch? Just setting the dog up to fail. And it's Irish Setter and you don't know how it's display of unsound temperament was rewarded by the judge or do you? Apart from contradicting yourself about putting hands on the dogs, you have your own recurring theme when you reply to me. Are you part of the solution or do you just set out to slag off others who are advocating for their own breed? Do you own and exhibit Maremma, or did you not see that they cannot be lumped together with other breeds and approached in a generalist fashion? No I don't own Maremma's nor do I want too. I wasn't slagging off anyone unlike yourself who made it pretty easy to find out what judges you were talking about. And I don't see where I was contradicting myself about judges putting hands on. But that's alright you just keep on believing how hard done by you and your dogs are. And why did you show a dog that not even you could examine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Ah well back on topic. Italian Champion Pastrano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Just further to the earlier discussion, when I have an example with a judge putting their hands on a Maremma at Show in Europe I will display it. In the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Anyone like to have a go at judging between these? Maybe this is why we have International Judges at Royals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Anna Albrigo, and Selvaspina Kennels, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) Just so you know, getting the owner to 'mouth' the dog to show teeth is fairly common for all breeds in both Europe and the US. It is not unique to Maremma ....... Must admit I am still trying to work out exactly what the aim of this thread is? Edited February 24, 2013 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Just so you know, getting the owner to 'mouth' the dog to show teeth is fairly common for all breeds in both Europe and the US. It is not unique to Maremma ....... Must admit I am still trying to work out exactly what the aim of this thread is? Maybe we could have less of it here, then. Here you go. Maremmas In Show. Yes! On the Podium, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottshowgirl Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Must admit I am still trying to work out exactly what the aim of this thread is? Maybe we could have less of it here, then. Here you go. Maremmas In Show. Yes! On the Podium, no less. Yep, clear as mud now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I dunno Tralee I cant judge them because the coats look completely wrong to me - probably just because they are groomed for the show but I dont want to see those coats which get really badly matted and need heaps of grooming - which some in Australia have. They look pretty and all,magnificent in fact but its not practical in a paddock .As I said I may be seeing only a groomed coat and when he's not on the podium and all dressed for the ring his coat may look different but it's making me hesitate. As far as the way these guys are approached anyone including a judge needs to be aware of the fact that their temperament is not aggressive but they aren't supposed to be thrilled about stranger bowling up to them either. Im really glad to hear you won that court case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Yes, overseas dogs what is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hi All. :) I thought it might be time to promote the Maremma in the Show Ring. Their numbers are increasing so the correct breeding is even more paramount. You never know, the odd Judge may look in and get a real idea of what they should be puting up. Yes, overseas dogs what is your point? Italian Dogs if you don't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 The Maremma at 25:35.It was good to see the Lead Judge at Crufts not pushing the Maremma to allow itself to be handled. True to temperament - Alert but not aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Hmm. I would call that more 'shy' than 'standoffish' or reserved ?? Is that type of thing accepted in the Maremma? Certainly we see it from time to time in the Pyrenean, but it is not preferred behaviour and would be marked down in a French club breed temperament test. I note the Maremma was the only LGD breed there to display this type of behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Judge couldn't even go over the dog, that dog showed all the hallmarks of being timid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottshowgirl Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 That Maremma looked beyond 'not aggressive', it looked scared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 That type of reaction in a working situation would not be good either IMO. Timidity possibly and often likely leading to fear aggression as a reaction (standing off, possibly 'dancing around/shying off' and barking and reacting when pushed) for example - rather than boldness and facing up to a threat, or discriminating when someone or something is not a threat - is not how I would want a LGD to act. I would rather see a dog that is confident, even if wary (not backing off) and not 'giving' of affection etc (watch the reaction of the Pyrenean Shepherd to being handled as a comparison. This is a breed that is also known to be quite wary and standoffish with strangers). Any other Maremma folk out there who can comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Didnt look timid to me. Looked that he just didn't want a stranger putting his hands on him so he was trying to move out of the way - normal for a Maremma on a lead being approached by a stranger I would think. In a working situation I expect that my Maremma will not stay still to be handled by anyone except me - not timidly moving away but moving away to make a statement - please don't touch me, because I cant do my job and Im vulnerable when you do. They would stand 10 feet back and bark their heads of making you think they will kill you if you come into their paddock. Anything that is different is a potential threat and they dont go after and stand up to something thats a threat unless its the very last option open to them - they back up as far as they can go and only stand their ground when the warnings haven't been taken and the species they are guarding is under threat. Anyway I didn't think that dog was timid or afraid. Maremma as a companion is different but regardless each will react based on what it is used to and what is normal - Hard balancing act. I want to know a dog in the ring can also work well but getting them to accept what is normal in the ring and have strangers examining it in an environment it doesnt know where and what the risk factors are to its human and still go home and work takes a hell of a lot of training and exposure to get them to be happy to be handled by strangers in the ring but never in the paddock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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